John Stockton & Carlos Boozer or Deron Williams and Karl Malone

by Basketball John on Oct 14, 2008 12:00 PM MDT

V

I decided to open this up to a poll today. This could probably be its own post. Maybe that will come later (UPDATE: It turned into a post).

But in my questions to the guys over at Rip City Project, I asked, would you rather have Deron & Karl or Stockton & Boozer (that obviously doesn't have the same ring to it).

I figured we hear the comparisons between the duos enough, but I've never heardof anyone comparing them if their respective counterparts were swapped.

This is obvious speculation, but it's something interesting to talk about. You have to take into account whether they're playing two-on-two or whether they're playing as part of a team. You can assume either. I'd like to see the votes and read the reasoning behind your vote.

As for me, I'm inclined to lean towards Williams & Malone. I have a few reasons for that. One, I like the toughness of Williams and Boozer. Stockton didn't back down to anyone either, but I think Williams would have an edge here. He doesn't have the crafty veteran moves yet though. And Malone v. Boozer isn't a question in this category.

For offense, I think they're pretty close. Stockton could score if he wanted to. We know what Williams could do there. Malone has the second most points of all time. Boozer isn't a slack himself. And if he were in the role Karl was, he could have put up close to similar numbers. But overall I'm giving the edge to Williams & Malone.

Defensively, Stockton wins over Williams hands down. But Malone beats Boozer soundly. Williams is a solid defender, which is more than what you can say for Boozer. This round goes to Williams and Boozer as well.

The only other category I thought of where you can compare them is drive and clutch. Stockton and Williams have it. Malone has the drive, but had some very un-clutch moments. And so far, Boozer has as well. So we'll call this one a push.

Overall, I would go with Williams and Boozer. For whatever advantage has over Williams, Boozer can't make up that difference over Malone.

Thoughts? Let's here ya.

Poll

John Stockton & Carlos Boozer or Deron Williams & Karl Malone?

Stockton & Boozer

21 votes

Williams & Malone

114 votes

135 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 16 comments | Add comment |

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Comments

Williams & Malone

I would go with Williams and Malone. I think the step down from Malone to Boozer is much larger then from Stockton to Williams, especially on defense.
Also, Williams would better help Malone in the clutch than Stockton because Williams wants to take those clutch shots more then Stockton did.

by Demosthenes on Oct 14, 2008 12:44 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Malone sucked in the clutch.

Cuba Si! Yanqi No!

by Patrick517 on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yikes

I figured it would lean Williams and Malone, but I didn’t figure it would be this bad. No staunch Stockton supporters out there?

SLCDunk.com, The Utah Jazz on SBNation

by Basketball John on Oct 14, 2008 2:12 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

I am a staunch Stockton supporter

and I am aghast at the results of this poll.

Cuba Si! Yanqi No!

by Patrick517 on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

Some head to head stats

Of course Williams and Stockton never played against each other, but Malone and Boozer went head to head a couple of times in 2003. It’s not a very large sample size, but in the Cleveland loss that year, Boozer held his own. Malone had a slight defensive edge in blocks and steals. It’s also comparing them at the end and beginning of their careers.

In the Jazz loss, Boozer didn’t play that much, while Karl was decent. It’s also the game where Ricky Davis tried to get a triple double by shooting at his own basket and getting the rebound. DeShawn took him out before he could. I don’t think the scorer was going to give it to him anyway. The recap didn’t state why Boozer was out.

SLCDunk.com, The Utah Jazz on SBNation

by Basketball John on Oct 14, 2008 2:25 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Someone Had to Vote for Stockton

And, it was me. Williams may be better scorer, but I think Stockton is better at putting points on the board. If you look at Stock’s Hollinger Ratings (Insiders-only) from 2002-03 (the only year Stock played under Hollinger’s system) his per was a ridiculous 21.05, and the dude was about 59 years-old. Check out Williams Hollinger Rating from last season: 20.82 PER (projected to 20.98 for this season). Williams TS% is somewhat higher (59.5 v 57.7), but his assist ratio is somewhat lower (35.3 v 39.9).

Now, I’m not Hollinger, but it seems to me that more of Stockton’s possessions ended in a score (whether through a made shot or through an assist). So, if you’re looking to put the most points on the board as possible you would want to run your offense through Stockton. I also think that Stockton had better shot selection, was a better rebounder, and was hands-down a better defender.

I think you can swap out Boozer and Malone pretty easily on the offensive end. They both play about the same game, so having Stockton feed Boozer isn’t going to change Stock’s game all that much Nor would having Williams dish to Malone change Williams game all that much. But, I think there’s a drop-off, no matter how slight, from Stockton to Williams.

by kris247 on Oct 14, 2008 2:49 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Two simple words: De and fence

Karl plays it, Boozer doesn’t. I wanted this to be a grueling question that would shock me to my jazz core, but eventually it became really easy. Without repeating what others have already said, the only other legic I can use happens to be about Malone playing defense against Boozer, and vice versa.

John is a killer, and so is Deron. Boozer is the weak link. Malone used to average what Boozer gets now, when Malone was 10 years older than Boozer is now.

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 14, 2008 3:40 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Boo!

I can’t believe you would even go there…

by Ute Awe Man on Oct 14, 2008 3:40 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

oh yeah...

if it possible to add me to the JazzLinks thingy on the right column on the frontpage? I know i’m there on the left hand column, but some people (most people) read left to right, and they tend to notice that one more. just trying to drum up more traffic . . . no harm, no foul, right? : )

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 14, 2008 3:47 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

I'll get it added.

I need to remove one of them. I’ll probably just move the one over.

SLCDunk.com, The Utah Jazz on SBNation

by Basketball John on Oct 15, 2008 9:57 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

It feels wrong just thinking about Malone/Stockton separately

I think the difference between Malone and Boozer is too big to look past, so I’ll vote for Malone and Deron.

by NBR on Oct 14, 2008 4:38 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

stock has a special place in my heart

but i have to cast my vote for dwill and malone.
like many before me have said, the gap between karl and boozer is just too large to ignore, especially on the defensive end. basically i’m voting for the side doesn’t have boozer.

by moni on Oct 14, 2008 5:29 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

I'm a huge Stockton fan

but I really don’t think it’s very close.
Of course, maybe I just have no idea what I’m talking about.

The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".

by UtesFan89 on Oct 14, 2008 6:49 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

It's closer than people think.

And I am a huge Stockton fan, so I have to take issue with Desmothenes’ comment that Deron could help Stockton, because Stockton doesn’t want to take the big shot. Everyone remembers the great “Yes! John Stockton sends the Utah Jazz to the NBA finals” shot, but Stockton scored 11 points in the last 2 minutes of that game and I would argue that Stockton took the big shots for the Jazz in that era. He at least assisted or took the big shots. But just like everyone is saying, the poll results speak more about Boozer’s defecits than Stockton’s inabilities. Also Malone was better than most of us remember. By his third season he was averaging 28 points and 12 rebounds a game. After that he averaged at least 25 points and 10 rebounds each season for the next 9 seasons, with highs of 31 points a game and 12 boards. The guy put up ridiculous numbers for a winning team, while learning that great swipe defensive move that earned him first team all defense for a season.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Oct 15, 2008 6:00 AM MDT reply reply 0 recs

This was hard

As a duo I’d take Williams and Malone, because the gap between Malone and Booze is greater than that of Williams and Stockton. But I’d rather have Stockton on our current team, this would help spread the scoring around which would result in a happier Kirilenko and a stronger team. Stockton’s leadership is ahead of Williams’ and he’d do a better job motivating Booze and Okur on defense. Another big plus of having Stockton would be lower turnovers per game, turnovers are the only real weakness in Williams’ game right now. He can shoot, drive, and pass but he needs to take care of the ball better.

by Aldeez on Oct 15, 2008 2:05 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Demosthenes

I don’t know what you’re talking about, Stockton was one of the most competitive players that’s ever played, not to mention his freakish clutch abilities. In crunch time Stock was good for at least one steal, roughly three assists, and two points. That’s an 10 point swing and it’d happen with two or three minutes left. Williams on the other hand is good for a turnover, two assists, and 5-8 points. I’d much rather have Stockton running the team in a close game.

by Aldeez on Oct 15, 2008 2:13 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs