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The Utah Jazz: A Stiff White Retrospective

[Note by basketballjohn, 07/23/08 10:44 AM MDT ]  Welcome TrueHoop, Ball Don't Lie, & Can't Stop the Bleeding readers.  Login to post or signup and join the Dunk to comment.

With the 23rd pick of the 2008 NBA Draft the Utah Jazz selected Kosta Koufos, a 7'1" center from Canton, OH. Many Jazz fans immediately tagged him as yet another stiff white guy, and with good cause. Let's take a look back at some of the outstanding stiff white guys to whom the Jazz have provided refuge.

Star-divide

Rafael Araújo
It's not his fault the braintrust (Hi, Rob Babcock!) in Toronto way over reached and drafted him 8th in the 2004 NBA Draft. But, the Jazz agreeing to swap Kris Humphries and Robert Whaley for Arújo in 2006 is mind boggling. As a member of the Jazz, Hoffa was a walking, talking foul, and only managed to average 2.6 points and 2.4 rebounds in 28 games.

Todd Fuller
A member of the Jazz from 1998-1999, and managed to swat an amazing 14 blocks for the entire season, garnered six assists, and 27 turnovers while playing 42 games.

Curtis Borchardt
Possibly the stiffest white guy to ever play for the Jazz. The Stanford Cardinal was drafted 18th overall by the Orlando Magic, and immediately traded to the Utah for Ryan Humphry and a second rounder. Serious question marks surrounded Borchardt after he suffered a broken foot in college, and to the surprise of absolutely no one, he broke the same foot again and sat out his entire rookie season. Making his NBA debut in his second season he managed to break his left index finger, followed by his right wrist. The pinnacle of his career must have been when he was included in a 2005 13-player, 5 team trade - the largest NBA trade ever - and ended up on the Celtics, where he was cut before the season even started.

Greg Foster
Admit it, you were searching every Fanzz store in Salt Lake looking for a Foster jersey after that clutch three pointer in the 1996-97 NBA Finals. But, his numbers tell the real story: 3.8 points, 2.5 rebounds, and 0.3 blocks per game, while averaging 13 minutes a game over four season. You have to love the dude's intensity though, he managed to infuriate Shaq after making a throat slashing motion towards the Lakers' bench after a big dunk. Unfortunately for Foster, his total lack of basketball IQ was responsible for the Jazz letting him walk after the 1999 season.

Ben Handlogten
A quintessential "Jerry Player". He earned his minutes by practicing hard, but didn't do much with them, averaging only 4.3 points and 3.2 rebounds in over 12 minutes per game. The Jazz did manage to package Ben with Keon Clark to get the next guy on our list...

Tom Gugliotta
I have absolutely no memories of Googs ever playing a game for the Jazz, but I remember watching him keep the bench warm while sporting a badass...errr...lame barbed wire tattoo around his bicep. His massive contract did come off the books after 2003-04, allowing the Jazz to use their flexibility to sign Memo.

Adam Keefe
Big Red! Another stiff guy out of Stanford, he played for the Jazz from 1994-2000 where he helped to backup The Mailman. Known for his flaming red hair, and inability to guard anyone he averaged 5.0 points and 3.7 rebounds per game. In August 2000 he was traded to the Warriors for Donyell Marshall.

Pete Chillcut
Yeah, I don't know who he is, either. Apparently we signed him as a free agent in October 1999, and cut him in January 2000, after wards he went on to play 10-day contracts with the Clippers and the Cavaliers. In his 26 games on the Jazz roster he averaged 1.8 points and 1.7 rebounds in 8 minutes off the bench. According to his bio on NBA.com he collects coins in the off-season. I don't know if anything says "stiff white guy" more than numismatics.

Tom Chambers
When you think about Tom Chambers you probably remember the 1987 All-Star Game MVP award, or his huge dunk over Marc Jackson, or maybe even his college years with the University of Utah. But, by the time the Jazz acquired him before the 1993-1994 season he was pretty much done. By the 1994-1995 season his per-game scoring had dropped to a mere 6.2 points per game, and spent the majority of his time on the bench icing his knees.

Rusty LaRue
For a moment we're dropping into the backcourt. Rusty came to the Jazz during on a 10-day contract in January 2002, he played well enough to earn a contract for the remainder of the season. He averaged 5.5 points, 1.5 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game, in 16 minutes off the bench. In retrospect, Rusty wasn't all that stiff, and he did a pretty admirable job backing up Stock. (Who else were we going to use? A washed up John Starks?) Ol' Rusty even managed to get in some PT during the playoffs.

Raúl López
Our previous backcourt entry didn't deserve to be on the list, but Raúl sure does. The 24th overall pick of the 2001 draft was hyped as the best point guard in Europe, and the logical successor to John Stockton. He finally got out of his Real Madrid contract in September 2002, and almost immediately tore his right ACL while playing for the Spanish National Team. The Jazz decided to offer him a rookie contract anyway, and he missed the entire 2002-03 recovering from the surgery. By the time he took the court in 2003-04 Stock was retired, and Raúl was backing up Carlos Arroyo in 20 turnover prone minutes off the bench. His knee never fully recovered, and by the end of the 2004-05 season he was openly hoping to be released from his contract.

Matt Harpring
Did you know he was once a quarterback? It's true. When the Jazz signed in 2002 he was the perfect player for the Jerry Sloan's system: a hardnosed player, who wasn't afraid to dole out tough fouls. Playing along side Malone and Stockton he had the best season of his career, and earned a nice contract extension in 2006. Since the extension he's had microfracture surgery on both knees, leaving him mostly immobile, and unable to defend quicker players. (Quite frankly, all of the players out there are quicker than Harp).

Pace Mannion
Quite honestly, I had no idea who Pace Mannion was until he inexplicably showed up on the Utah Jazz halftime show. (Seriously. Who is this guy? Was he the last name on the list of people the producers called to offer the halftime gig? Was Ostertag's phone busy?) You just need to take one look at the dude to know he belongs among the stiff white guy ranks. In his two seasons with the Jazz he average 3.3 points and 1 rebound (ONE!) and 1.5 assists per game.

Mark Eaton
If you grew up in the Utah during the mid-80s you almost certainly had a poster of the Mountain Man on your wall. I know I did. Eaton was a force, earning one All-Star selection, two Defensive Player of the Year awards, and making the All-NBA Defensive First Team three times. (He made the second time twice). The Jazz even retired his number. It kills me to include him on this list, but he was totally immobile - he camped in the paint on every possession, and would have earned the opposing team countless technical foul shots if the three second rule had been around (and enforced) during his peak years. Towards the end of his career in 1992-93 his rebounds average had dropped to just 4.1 per game, along with 1.2 blocks, and only appeared in 63 games.

Greg Ostertag
The final entry on our list, and the man every Jazz fan loves to hate. Drafted 28th overall in the 1995 NBA Draft, 'Tag managed to put together one solid game before Scott Layden signed him to a then massive $39 million contract. Over the years he's managed to piss off everyone in the Jazz organization with his lazy work ethic, lack of conditioning, and general ineptitude. The highlight of his career, at least for Jazz fans, was when in 1997 Shaq O'Neal slapped him silly before a game. Apparently 'Tag has spouted off that he had "owned" Shaq in the 1996-97 playoffs, and that he could stop Shaq anytime. Bad idea big guy, bad idea. In his 11 years in the NBA (ten of which were with the Jazz) Big O managed to average 4.6 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.7 blocks per game. I'm fairly certain that if I were 15 inches taller I could have done better.

All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.

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This piece should be called stiff, big guys

Besides the fact that Greg Foster isn’t technically white, the Jazz just haven’t had tons of luck finding serviceable big guys of any color. You can throw Isaac Austin, Luther Wright and Antoine Carr, or Jarron Collins into that mix as well. As much as everyone thinks it is funny to rip on the Jazz for drafting big, white guys, the team’s last best centers (Eaton, Ostertag, and Okur) have all been white.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Jul 22, 2008 6:51 PM MDT   0 recs

A lot of the guys on the list aren’t technically white. But, check out this Greg Foster pic from his website (way to dunk it on Chuck’s head!):
http://www.gregfosterbasketball.com/sitebuilder/images/gregoverbarkley-164×220.jpg

I’d argue with you about putting Ostertag in a “best centers” list. The man played maybe one complete season (1996-97) the entire time he was in a Jazz uniform, and even that was nothing to crow about. (7.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2 blocks per game). Especially for a guy who was being paid like a franchise player; at the time of his contract extension he was being paid more than Stockton, Hornacek and Russell.

I should have written a piece called “The Utah Jazz: A Basketcase Retrospective” and profiled guys like Luther Wright, Oden Polynice and Gordan Giriček. Oh well, maybe some other time. (Interesting side note: Did you know that we’re still paying Luther Wright? And that we will continue to do so until 2021? Fortunately, I don’t think it counts against our cap number).

by kris247 on Jul 23, 2008 9:08 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Man, that website is terrible.

http://www.gregfosterbasketball.com/

Sign up now and you can also see former Jazz man Chris Morris. Sweet! And how did he score Gary Payton?

by basketballjohn on Jul 23, 2008 9:22 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I should Have Clarified

You are right, Ostertag was only good for like 2 weeks, but you have to admit that he was good when he was good. If we had that kind of production now from a backup center, we would be good. He didn’t record a lot of blocks, but clogged up the middle effectively. He surprisingly played great defense against Shaquille O’neal and Hakeem Olajuwon during the ‘97 playoffs and David Robinson and O’neal again in ‘98, earning him that ridiculous contract and the term the “Shaq Stopper.” Unfortunately that mentality ended along with his production when he was literally slapped to the ground by Shaq during the warmups of the first game the following year.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Jul 23, 2008 11:34 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

My favorite on the list

Ben Handlotion is my favorite big, white guy to ever to play for the Jazz.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Jul 22, 2008 6:53 PM MDT   0 recs

Big Tag

I love how the Kings got rid of Ostertag after only a season of having him on their team. Apparently Utah is the only place that could tolerate the big guy.

by Vromanite on Jul 22, 2008 11:13 PM MDT   0 recs

I remember that big trade...

...and I remember being annnoyed that we got Ostertag back. In fact, I think he was the only guy we got in that trade.

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Jul 23, 2008 5:49 AM MDT   0 recs

As stupid as it sounds, the trade actually made sense. At the time our center position was being held down by Okur, Collins and Borchardt. With Boozer spending most of his time injured our front line was pretty slim, and no one could block a shot. (Well, AK was putting up solid numbers that year, but most of his blocks come from rotating over, he wasn’t protecting the rim). Bringing in ‘Tag gave Sloan another big body to rotate in, clog the lane, and threaten to block a few shots.

by kris247 on Jul 23, 2008 9:16 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Smile

this post has been TrueHoop-ed!

I'll make it.

by Shums on Jul 23, 2008 10:32 AM MDT   0 recs

Nice job Kris

Perhaps some reward should be in order.

by basketballjohn on Jul 23, 2008 10:43 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Yikes.

I didn’t think anyone would actually read this.

by kris247 on Jul 23, 2008 11:03 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

let this be a lesson to us all

Thoughtful commentary about our roster = boring.

Snarky jokes about Greg Ostertag = national prominence.

I'll make it.

by Shums on Jul 23, 2008 12:34 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I was far snarkier about Pete Chillcut and Pace Mannion. There are so many good Ostertag posts out there it’s hard to find anything new to say.

by kris247 on Jul 23, 2008 12:46 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

People just like to confirm their hunches

So many writers, especially a handful at ESPN love to tease the Jazz for having so many white guys as if it is a reflection on the state or whatever, so they like to confirm what they have been saying. I am going to look into whether or not we have our fair share of white guys in the league.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Jul 23, 2008 12:50 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I honestly don’t know if the Jazz have (or had) a greater percentage of white players than the average NBA team, and I don’t know of any website or database that lists players by their race. But, my gut tells me that over the years the Jazz have had a lot of white players on their teams – certainly more than I ever saw playing on the Warriors in the five years I lived in the Bay Area.

Any good marketing professional will tell you that you market to you audience. The predominate audience in Utah historically has been, and continues to be, white people. Especially in the upper-middle class where most sports teams tend to focus their marketing efforts. Marketing a team of mostly black players would have been downright impossible in the Utah of the early-to-mid 1980s. (Remember, this was a society that was still coming to terms with allowing black men to become members of the predominant church). So the team ownership probably made a decision (conscious or not) to draft and sign players that would be easier to market to their white audience. That could have been a major reason why white players (John Stockton, Mark Eaton, Bobby Hansen, Marcus Iavaroni, and later on Jeff Hornacek, Greg Ostertag and Andrei Kirilenko) had such a large role on Jazz teams – especially in the marketing promotions.

Now, I’m not saying that Utah Jazz fans can’t, or won’t, support a black player – we named a street after Karl Malone, after all – but when it comes down image most people are more comfortable buying a product that is endorsed by people that look like them. (How many white people do you see walking down the street sporting Sean John clothing? How many black people do you see wearing Nautica?) If you were trying to find an audience for any product in any market, especially a small market like Salt Lake, you would start by appealing to the majority of the people in that market.

(This is all just conjecture on my part; I have no insight into the thought processes of Sam Battistone or Larry H Miller).

It’s all about image. True Hoop has an excellent post about image in marketing the Indiana Pacers.

I didn’t mean for this post to turn into a commentary about the racial make-up of the Utah Jazz. It was meant to be a joke, although clearly you, and I’m sure others, perceived it differently.

by kris247 on Jul 23, 2008 1:45 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

nah

You didn’t mean it that way, and no one around here took it that way. S’all good.

Unfortunately, the reflex joke when referring to the Jazz is “white state, white team.” Personally, I don’t care whether we’ve actually had a greater number of white players than other teams (we probably have). I do care that whenever anyone mentions the Jazz on the national level, they jump immediately to this joke in such a flippant way.

That’s not a knock on you though, Kris. It’s our team, so we can be as flippant as we want about it, because we know the rest of the story.

I'll make it.

by Shums on Jul 23, 2008 2:07 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

It's true.

As a friend of mine often says, “Utah: Whole Lot of Honkey, Not a Lot of Tonk.”

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Jul 23, 2008 8:07 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

rusty larue

rusty larue is so bad. i don’t know how you give him any props. in game 4 against sactown in the 2002 playoffs he jacked up 2-3 horrendous three pointers in the last 30 seconds and basically lost the series for us.

by bigdog'sshades on Jul 23, 2008 11:16 AM MDT   0 recs

missed one

Don’t forget Louis Amundson, signed to a ten-day contract to fill in for Boozer when he broke his leg. Not a total stiff, more like “his brain had no control of his arms or legs.”

by tatanka33 on Jul 23, 2008 11:22 AM MDT   0 recs

One more...

John Crotty??? That dude could barely move towards the end!!

by zackerylee on Jul 23, 2008 1:25 PM MDT   0 recs

You’re right. I totally missed him. I remember watching him pick up foul after foul during his first stint with the Jazz and hoping that Sloan would tell him to just go into the game and clothesline Bill Laimbeer or Dennis Rodman since he was going to foul out of the game, anyway.

by kris247 on Jul 23, 2008 1:48 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Bart Kofoed anyone?

How about Bart Kofoed? He was white but the stiffest thing about him might have been his punch—ask Bobby Hansen.

Also, no Billy Paultz aka “the Big Whopper”—are you kidding me? He was the original white stiff in Utah.

Oh, and I for one remember Pace Mannion. I remember tripping over myself to get his autograph at a Rocky Mtn Revue game at Westminster College. For a little kid like me at the time, Pace Mannion was so cool—a Utah Ute who made the big leagues.

by edevart on Jul 23, 2008 2:06 PM MDT   0 recs

Collins

Why wasn’t Collins on the list? Seriously, isn’t he just another stiff white guy from Stanford? After they traded Marshall for Harpring, I developed a whole theory about Larry Miller being a racist and part of that theory was that the only black players were either from Stanford or were self-proclaimed “Black rednecks.” So throw Collins onto the list for me.

BTW, this is my first post here. Thanks for having me.

I'll make it coach...

by MTN on Jul 23, 2008 10:29 PM MDT   0 recs

welcome

except that you stole my Jimmy Chitwood line in your signature. I’ll be watching you…

no seriously, welcome.

I'll make it.

by Shums on Jul 24, 2008 12:01 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll change it coach...

Maybe I’ll go to Ollie’s comment, “I knew I had it all the way…” I’ll find something.

I'll make it coach...

by MTN on Jul 24, 2008 8:05 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

dude, definitely joking

we can be Jimmy Chitwood buddies, no big deal. Dap.

I'll make it.

by Shums on Jul 24, 2008 8:24 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Hope it’s the first of many to come. Thanks for signing up.

by basketballjohn on Jul 24, 2008 3:53 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry, not very good...

Mannion? You never heard of him? When did you move to Utah? He was a pretty good player on the Ute teams w/ Chambers and Danny Vranes (another not-especially-stiff (but also not especially GOOD) white guy). The team also featured, IIRC, Manny Hendrix who later played CB for the Cowboys. A very good team any longtime Ute fan would remember fondly.

And Ostertag never said anything like that. Shaq was just being his usual petty self. In fact, Ostertag cashed in on a remarkable double-double in the playoffs vs. the lakers: 10 board, 10 blocks (most of them against Shaq!), 0 points. Shaq was embarrassed, and PRETENDED he’d heard Ostertag said something like that. I hope everyone can see The Big Reputation’s true character these last few years…why would you depend on hearsay like that?? Of course, the bottom line is that.’Tag really did suck.

And did you even ever see Eaton play?? The Jazz posted him out at the three-point line to draw the center out of the middle (this WAS in the “no-zone defense” days). There was never any point in having the guy with the worst hands in the history of the league down in the paint. So that also was totally inaccurate.

Greg Foster was blacker than…ummm…Jason Kidd. And maybe D-Will. And Mike Bibby.
Also also inaccurate.

Harpring wasn’t a stiff at all when the Jazz signed him…hell, why not put Stockton on the list too?? He was fairly stiff AT THE END OF HIS DAMN CAREER. Which makes me wonder just how contrived the list was-what’s the point of calling guys “white and stiff” when they’re 35 years old??

Now, when we had Billy Paultz and Rich Kelley on the front line-hell yeah! That was ‘white stiff city’...but overall, the list just contributes to stereotyping of SLC, Utah and the Jazz. Good job. /sarcasm

by Trollificusv2 on Jul 24, 2008 1:41 AM MDT   0 recs

trollificusv2 – i know we’re getting off topic here but you’re manny hendrix drop requires me to mention the real star of that ute team—kelvin upshaw! Loved that team. Although I don’t think Pace and Vranes ever shared the court with Upshaw, or did they?

I also have to defend the Big Double Ought-Ostertag. Although he frequently got blocked by the rim, or dunked on by the point guard and despite the fact he had a ridiculous Fred Flintstone with a basketball tattoo-the guy was a key part of our team for several years. In fact, I’d argue the Jazz would have been a much better team with Tag in the middle at times last season. I mean, the guy could at least block some shots on the low post—something I don’t think I’ve seen Boozer do even once.

by edevart on Jul 24, 2008 9:30 AM MDT   0 recs

It's meant to be funny

Calm down guys. Anyway two of my faves are on here.

Greg Ostertag for donating a kidney.

Greg Foster for the greatest championship parade speech of all time in 2001 with the Lakers. Short and sweet … “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.”

by bangorbro on Jul 25, 2008 7:38 AM MDT   0 recs

I love tha Tag

His total contribution to the Kings: getting us a season of Bonzi Wells when he was traded.
I always thought he was hilarious, and wanted him to play just so I could see him on the court…. awesomeness.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 28, 2008 3:01 PM MDT   0 recs

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