Recap - Utah Jazz @ Los Angeles Lakers - Game 2
by Basketball John on Apr 22, 2009 10:01 AM MDT
in Game Recaps
67 comments
What's it going to take to get a good first quarter out of these guys?
It's frustrating to see the Jazz give it up in the first and second quarter of these games (even going back to last year's playoffs) to have them fight back and close the lead only to come up short again.
But I like how they've played in these two games despite the losses. Had we seen these Jazz the last few weeks of the season, we wouldn't be playing LA right now.
The Lakers are very deep but they've also shown that they're human and that they can be beat. If I were a Laker fan (bleeeeeccch, excuse me), I would be worried that my guys build up a huge lead, only to give it away. I would also be nervous that a team like the Jazz, who they're suppose to be blowing out, was able to hang around and get within 3 late in the game on their home court. Oh yeah, and the Jazz were without Memo.
The little train that could couldn't quite get over the 6-point deficit hump until the closing minutes of the game. A Carlos Boozer layup got the Jazz the closest they had been, 106-109, since the first quarter. The Jazz were down as much as 15 with a little less than 11 minutes to go in the game.
After Boozer had stolen the ball from Gasol, the Jazz had a chance to cut it to 1 or to tie it, but a sloppy pass by Korver led to a Lamar Odom bucket that pushed it back to 5.
Even then, the Jazz weren't out of it. They failed to make a point on three straight possessions and a couple of turnovers by Deron Williams blew their last shot at stealing game 2 in LA.
Deron had 7 turnovers, but without him, we're not even in this game. He had a ridiculous 35 & 9 along with 4 steals and 2 blocks. He had six three pointers and shot the ball the best I've seen in a bit. Had the Jazz pulled out the W, he would have been leading the highlights. Okay, maybe not. LA still would have got all the screen time.
If the Jazz are to win, they have to find a way to stop Gasol and Odom. They combined for 17/20 shooting and 42 points. You can't do much if that's going to happen. And when Ariza adds 3 timely threes, you're in trouble.
I hope this team isn't filling me with false hope. With the way they've played, there's no reason why they shouldn't win the next two games at home. WIth Memo and the ESA, that should give them enough advantage to win the next two. If that's the case, it's a best of 3 and anything can happen there. Granted, you have 2 of the games in LA, but if the Jazz can somehow manage to not get blown out in the first and second quarters, they have enough stamina and depth to make a serious run in the second half.
Let's take a look at some of the other performances:
- AK - Played solid. He was only -2 on the game. He took only 3 shots and made 2 of them. He also had 6 FTs. I'll take this AK over what we've got recently from him.
- Boozer - 20 & 10 on offense, not so good on defense. Pau Gasol abused him all night long and especially in the first half.
- Ronnie B - 14 points but 5-12 shooting. He wasn't knocking down the jumpers, but he was playing some pretty solid D on Kobe last night. Here's Ronnie's shot chart:
- KK - 12 points, 3 assists, and one killer turnover.
- Millsap - He held his own with 13 & 7 on offense. He couldn't stop Pau or Odom either.
- Shannon Brown, Trevor Ariza, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol - Pick one and stop them. Even if two of them have big nights, we're still in it. But when everyone is hitting shots like they were, it's amazing that we were as close as we were.
- 60% - That's what the Lakers shot for most of the game. If the Jr. Jazz shoots that against you, it's going to be a hard night.
- Kobe- Huge dick. And that's not a compliment. I don't swear much (and we should cut down on it in game threads, review the policy if you don't remember), but I couldn't find another word to describe him. Case in point: When the Jazz were trying to foul to stop the clock late, Millsap and I think Ronnie B were going after him. Just a normal intentional foul situation. Without much contact, Kobe throws an elbow after the foul and gets hit with a T. Since KK missed missed the FT, he got to throw an elbow without any repercussions. Ass. There, there's another word.
I'm looking foward to game 3 at the ESA. It will be rocking with the best fans in the league and I expect to go hoarse yelling at the Lakers all night. I will be in attendance. I was able to score some pretty good seats. I'll be in the first row of the upper bowl.
Until then, thanks to Jeff at CelticsBlog for this video,
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That is a great video.
And I apologize for swearing last night. I didn’t even know it was in this site’s policy, but if there is anything that makes me drop some naughty words, it is the Black Mamba himself. I mean, what a dork.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 22, 2009 10:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not a big deal really
The little box you get when you sign up says, “Swearing more than a damn or a hell is not allowed.”
I’m not going to suspend or ban anyone for it, but it could go downhill pretty quick. Besides, we wouldn’t have had your classic “bastard bitchface” comment otherwise :).
Great recap again by the way.
by Basketball John on Apr 22, 2009 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
How embarrassing. I had forgot about that tirade. And I agree about the language. It is super unclassy when sites are filled with language.
And thanks for the kind words about my recap. I was just trying to think of a different way to say we need to play our big guys sitting on the bench.
Oh, and I agree about the fact that if the Jazz play this way in Salt Lake City, we have a real chance to even the series.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 22, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? It says that?
Oops… I might’ve let out a f-bomb or two. I try to use * instead, but… not certain
If I have, sorry.
True Blue Jazz
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Apr 22, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really isn't a big deal
I know what the Lakers do to people.
by Basketball John on Apr 23, 2009 8:19 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Might" "maybe"
these words that everyone in here is using sounds like the white flag is waiving. I am sure that no one in Utah likes Kobe. But it doesn’t matter to anyone. Even Karl Malone came over to the Purlple and Gold side. Regardless, this time is good enought to win just one game in Utah but that is id. So, hate on Kobe all that you want either way it’s over. GO LAKERS!
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 22, 2009 11:26 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Admit it
You were shaking in your little Kobe Moonboots when the Jazz were within 3 and driving.
Deny it all you want, the Lakers are vulnerable.
by Basketball John on Apr 22, 2009 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Kobe Moonboots weren't shaking, but I was nervous
But who said the Lakers couldn’t be beaten? They lost 17 games this season.
But they’re still the best team, and they win almost 80% of the time.
It’s not like they’re going to kill every team.
by Gils_Keloids on Apr 22, 2009 5:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
cheering for the Lakers
Is like cheering for global warming. The fact that we can’t stop them doesn’t make them worthy of admiration.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Apr 22, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the fact that talented players work hard to improve their skills
Like Kobe, Deron Williams, Ariza, Millsap and others makes them worthy of admiration (at least from a work ethic perspective).
by Gils_Keloids on Apr 22, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you hate so badly?
The Lakers are a talented group of guys who work very hard. And though you may make comments about “rape” or “ballhog” or whatever, neither of both are valid reasons for hating. Kobe is not the Kobe of early when his team sucked balls and he had to carry it all by himself. He’s not a ballhog by any means – he leads his team in assists and even passed up some straight drives to the basket to set up his teammates. And a for rape, well ppl accuse each other of everything
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 22, 2009 9:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody here
has made either “rape” or “ballhog” comments. Ever. Just FYI.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 22, 2009 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody has said anything about rape or being a ballhog.
You won’t find those kind of comments here.
by Basketball John on Apr 23, 2009 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way the Laker D is set up
they want to discourage dribble penetration and encourage jumpers. Based on the last two games(and 2 yrs I guess) D-Will can get in the lane or shoot over the top of whomever is guarding him and do it with some success.
The issue is, I think, will Sloan permit him to be a bit more selfish/put Utah on his back?
The Lakers have been able to clog the lane because Okur isn’t there to space the floor. I hope he returns to make things difficult for the Lakers, if only to give them a wake up call and bring out the best in both teams.
The Jazz did a good job of pouncing on the low-block w/ quick double teams in game 2, so I’m eager to see how the Lakers adjust. The Jazz did such a good job, at one point, the Lakers got discouraged and just handed it over to Kobe.
Really looking forward to seeing how the Lakers fare on the road. A team’s performance at ESA is a great indicator of where they’re at tactically and mentally.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
by ignign*kt on Apr 22, 2009 12:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The Lakers go as their bigs go. They struggled against the Celtics because they played Gasol and Odom so tough.
And against teams like Houston, Denver and especially Cleveland (if they get that far), they will really struggle. All of those teams can throw a big or two at them. Houston won’t have enough defense down low since Mutombo is injured, but Denver will give them fits and so would the Cavs. If the Lakers win the championship, I will be very surprised.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 22, 2009 12:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The Lakers have all the tools to win it but they're not always sharp
Their inconsistent effort and execution doesn’t inspire confidence.
At the rate they score, they ought to prevent a lot of points in transition by forcing opponents to start each possession by taking the ball out of bounds. Optimally, their offense affords them the opportunity to set up their defense, which increases the likelihood of getting stops.
The Lakers will concede the jumpshot to guys like Brooks, Lebron, and Billups. By packing the paint, they’re banking on opponents hitting jumpers and denying higher percentage shots. Strong slashers like D-Will can pick up a head of steam and still get to the cup. If the help defenders aren’t alert enough to trap at the correct moment and quick enough to recover and rotate, the Lakers will give up a lot of good looks.
The Lakers stop the ball, when the defense is working. When it isn’t, guys like Pierce get to the hole, cause the defense to collapse, score easy points and/or hit open men. That’s precisely how the Celtics eviscerated the Lakers.
Denver and Portland could pose a challenge, because they have mobile bigs, good interior defenders, and guys that can take their man to the cup. That’s the formula for a Laker upset.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
by ignign*kt on Apr 22, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great teams aren't always great
They’re just great when they have to be.
by Dyl on Apr 22, 2009 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will struggle against teams they went 8-1 against in the regular season? Really? And might last year’s struggles against the Celtics be different this year because of a healthy Bynum and a healthy Ariza?
by Perfundle on Apr 22, 2009 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's see...
the lakers swept the cavs and the rockets and lost one out of 4 to the nuggets. i think it’s safe to say that those teams are not as big of a problem to the lakers as you think they are.
by Adamas on Apr 22, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's clear that you don't know NBA basketball. Season series rarely matter.
When the Spurs swept the Cavs, the Cavs had beat them handily twice that season. Regular season doesn’t equal the playoffs.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 22, 2009 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And sometimes season series do matter
Like when Boston beat L.A. twice in last year’s regular season, it was no fluke.
So, it depends on if you know NBA Basketball. The Spurs are a team whose regular season games probably aren’t the best gauge of their playoff success, but those matchups between LA, Cleveland, and Boston were playoff intensity, and showed the strengths and weaknesses of each team involved.
by Gils_Keloids on Apr 22, 2009 5:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so what are you basing it on, then? Your fervent hope that it’s true? And let’s assume what you say is true, then, that the regular season doesn’t equal the playoffs. Well, let’s look at LA’s playoff record against the Nuggets last year. Surely they struggled, right? But no, they swept Denver. You could argue that Denver is a different team this year, but guess what, so is LA.
by Perfundle on Apr 22, 2009 5:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Season Series doesn't predict result of a playoff series?
Sorry clarkpojo, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. Regular season matchups are one of the best indicators of how a playoff series will turn out. Remember when the 1 Mavs got upset by the 8 Warriors in 2006? Well guess what, the Warriors won all 4 regular season games between them that year.
Take last year’s playoffs. There were a total of 15 playoff series. In seven of them the two teams had split their regular season matchups (2-2). In seven of them the team that won the regular season matchup, also went on to win the playoff series matchup. In only one playoff series did the team that won the regular season series lose the playoff series (Spurs and Hornets, second round). Therefore, it is not very common for a team to win the season series and lose the playoff series.
2008 Playoffs
Finals
Regular Season: Boston 2, LA 0; Result: Boston wins playoff series
Conference Finals:
Regular Season: Boston 2, Detroit 1. Result: Boston wins playoff series
Regular Season: LA 2, San Antonio 2. Result: LA wins playoff series.</em
Conference Semifinals:
Regular Season: Boston 2, Cleveland 2. Result: Boston wins playoff series
Regular Season: Detroit 2, Orlando 2. Result: Detroit wins playoff series.
Regular Season: LA 3, Utah 1. Result: LA wins playoff series
Regular Season: Spurs 2, Hornets 2. Result: Spurs wins playoff series.
First round:
Regular Season: Boston 3, Atlanta 0. Result: Boston wins playoff series
Regular Season: Detroit 2, Sixers 2. Result: Detroit wins playoff series.</em
Regular Season: Orlando 2, Raptors 1. Result: Orlando wins playoff series
Regular Season: Cleveland 2, Washington 2. Result: Cleveland wins playoff series.
Regular Season: LA 3, Denver 0. Result: LA wins playoff series
Regular Season: Hornets 2, Dallas 2. Result: Hornets wins playoff series.
Regular Season: Spurs 1, Suns 3. Result: Spurs wins playoff series
Regular Season: Utah 2, Houston 1 . Result: Utah wins playoff series.
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 22, 2009 9:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually meant the Spurs Suns first round, not Hornets Spurs was the series where the loser of the playoff series was the winner of the regular season series.
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 22, 2009 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You obviously know your NBA basketball
Thank you.
by Gils_Keloids on Apr 22, 2009 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he knows how to make bad cases with bad statistics.
No thank you.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 23, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is being made pretty clear during this series right now...
Lakers won regular season series 2-1.
Lakers kickin ass in playoff series, currently 3-1.
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 27, 2009 5:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an interesting case study
these numbers, from last year’s playoffs only, seem to bear you out. Out of curiosity, it would be cool to see a fuller analysis of this concept over a longer period of time.
however, season series are not the same as playoff series, in that season series games are not played consecutively, nor are the circumstances identical for each team each time the game is played (injuries, scheduling, time of season, win or loss streaks, etc). In that sense, perhaps the season series does not indicate as much as it may seem.
Not saying you’re wrong, just that these isolated numbers do not necessarily tell the whole story.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 22, 2009 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listen closely, because I am only going to write this once.
First of all, your statistics aren’t very valid because they look at one season of playoffs. Horrible sample size. Secondly, I have serious issue with the way you are interpreting your “statistics.” All your inferences are saying is that if a clearly superior team is able to win a season series over an inferior team in the regular season, then the superior team will beat that inferior team in the playoffs most of the time. Wow. Do you have more tidbits of knowledge? However, If two teams split the season series 2-2 and then one of those teams wins the series in a 4-0 sweep or in 5 games, then I don’t think that season series was at all an indicator of how things would play out in the playoffs either. That is my definition of a season series indicating or not indicating playoff results. Boston swept the Celtics last year, but struggled against them in the playoffs. Everyone thought it would be a 4-0 sweep, because of the regular season. Everyone was wrong.
Nevertheless, even by your own false definition, the stats don’t blow anyone away. I have looked over the last 3 post seasons. By your definition (a team loses the season series and wins the playoff series) it still has happened one third of the time (15 times in 45 series). By my definition (your definition + tied series leading to sweeps or 5 game wins) it happens more than half the time (23/45 times). So we might as well flip a coin as look at the season series. Looking over each team’s performance over 82 games would make sense, but not looking at the season series.
The reason I brought this argument up originally is because a Lakers fan said that he didn’t think Houston, Denver, or Cleveland would beat the Lakers in the playoffs, because the Lakers were 8-1 against those teams this season. And I said that that was a horrible argument, because, like I have shown, you can’t go by season series to determine the playoffs. Last season was a bit of a fluke, but like I said, mostly teams just beat teams they were supposed to in the playoffs and the season.
To further show, just look at the finals from the last 10 years. Boston goes 2-0 against LA during the season and beats them 4-2 in the playoffs. But two years ago Cleveland sweeps SA in the season and loses to them 4-0 in the finals. The year before that Miami loses to Dallas 2-0 in the season and then beats them 4-2 in the finals. In 2005 and 2003, both series were split and the finals were close fought wins by SA. In 2004 the Lakers and Detroit split two tough games, but then Detroit absolutely handed the Lakers their butts to them in that series. And from 2000-2003 the Lakers won all three of those series handily in a sweep, 5 games and 6 games. And guess what. The Lakers split with each of those teams. So if anything Laker fans should be nervous that LA swept Cleveland this year. That has proven as an indicator that LA will lose to them in the finals twice as often as the other way around. See what I did there? I manipulated stats, although what I said is true.
So…are season series really a good indicator of playoff outcome? Not really. You could probably guess the outcomes about as well by flipping a coin. Or just looking at past postseason success, or injuries, or about 20 other things before looking at the season series as an indicator.
IT IS NOT A CLICHE: THE PLAYOFFS ARE NOT THE REGULAR SEASON.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 23, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Lakers won the regular season series 2-1 (the 1 loss was close, the 2 wins were by a larger margin). Therefore it’s fair to say the Lakers did pretty well against the Jazz in the regular season.
Now the Lakers are doing pretty well against the Jazz in the post season. Therefore, he is right and you are wrong.
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 27, 2009 5:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Korver??
After Boozer had stolen the ball from Gasol, the Jazz had a chance to cut it to 1 or to tie it, but a sloppy pass by Korver led to a Lamar Odom bucket that pushed it back to 5.
I know the espn gametrack credits this turnover to a sloppy korver pass, but didn’t boozer catch it and try to put it on the floor and that’s how ariza stole the ball? this turnover might be a korver turnover but if my memory serves right it should go to boozer. and then they (lakers) give the ball to fisher in the corner for a 3-pointer, so what was going to put us down 1 ended up putting us back down to 6. this was a big momentum swing. and like reggie miller said last night it was a 5-point turnaround.
i loved brewer’s defense on kobe. kobe is going to get his, but i thought brewer was hands down the better defender on kobe. when brewer sat out, kobe had his way on kirilenko. i think kirilenko gives up that first step on d, because he is a better shot-blocker and so he relies on that and is willing to give up that first step hoping he can swat the shot. the problem is that it doesn’t work on kobe. brewer played him straight up and was the better “kobe defender”.
by P_Dizzle on Apr 22, 2009 1:22 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewer played great D on Kobe.
I just wish he’d start shooting the ball when Kobe disrespects him like that. Sooner or later his shot is going to come back.
by Patrick517 on Apr 22, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
it’s a total slap in the face to disrespect brewer like that. brewer needs to consistently hit that.
it’ll give him something to work on this offseason.
by P_Dizzle on Apr 22, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
basketball needs
hockey goons. I’d send one after Gasol. And then tactically, I’d put Bynum on the line every time he touches it and make him beat us from the line. Instead, we give them three point plays. I think that’s the easiest way to start getting tough on D: no three point plays. Be committed to the foul under the basket. The refs call fouls for Kobe if you breathe on him (we saw how upset he was when he got double-teamed – How DARE YOu treat him like that!), so you might as well commit to the foul. When CJ got beat (the clip they keep showing now), he should have just grabbed him and wrapped him up and said, take two from the line, but you can’t have three.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Apr 22, 2009 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said 5-point swing
one millisecond before reggie did. That was definitely the end of the game.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Apr 22, 2009 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really conflicted about this series
The Lakers haven’t really scared me … but I’m not certain they’re trying too hard.
The Jazz seemed to play just about as well as they could last night … except for the fact that they played no defense.
The Jazz can win the home games … but still need to get one in LA.
Could they win Game 5 along with the home three? … Or would a pair of losses wake the Lakers up?
Is it even worth thinking that the Jazz would be allowed to win a Game 7?
Will we get a boost from playing at home? … Or will there be meltdown after falling short, a la Game 6 last year?
And one last thing: I’m going to need to study tomorrow night. They better not lose, because I don’t want to waste another hour recovering from the game before I can get anything done.
by jaffa on Apr 22, 2009 6:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lol i feel you
watching these games take so much damn time b/c you have to spend an hour afterwards either posting on blogs or reading about it on yahoo sports
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 22, 2009 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we know that Memo is going to be back for game 3?
I’ve seen reports that put him out for that game as well.
by Dyl on Apr 22, 2009 7:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Does Mehmet O. coming back really matter?
This series is over. By the way, before I forget, that Sasha video is hilarious. I noticed that it was during the Finals. As a Laker fan I can relate to the awful feeling it felt to see the Lakers loose that bad. Too bad Utah fans will never know what that feels like. You see, we Laker fans are very familiar with the agony of defeat in the Finals but we are also very familiar with the feeling of winning a title. We know what it’s like to see Champagne bottle being opened and having the fans all over the streets going nuts. I have shed tears when the Lakers have lost but I have also shed tears more often when we have won. I can guarantee that none of you Jazz fans even know what streets the parade would be even if the Jazz ever won the title. The only celebration that you are familiar with is when Jordan celebrated on your floor. So, you can put any videos up especially if they are sent from Jeff Clark over at the Celtics blog both of your teams will face the same demise this year. GO LAKERS!
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 22, 2009 8:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Those are big words coming from a guy whose team is up 2-0.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 22, 2009 9:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big words
…are coming from everyone on this site. Actually everyone is speaking with a lot of confidence and talkint a lot of trash considering the Jazz are down 2-0. Besides, how is it that the only thing you guys can find is from a Celtic Fan. Can you find any videos of any Laker player crying due to a defeat at the hands of the Jazz? NO! Will the Lakers sweep the Jazz? Maybe. Either way, this series is over!
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 22, 2009 9:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone is talking "trash"
ask any of the Jazz fans here who they think will win this series, and we will probably all say the Lakers. Does that mean we can’t have hope? Why even be a fan then?
To say “this series is over!” is talking trash. To try to discuss our team’s legitimate chances to win games (like the chance the Jazz had when down by only 3 points last night) is simply supporting our team.
In one breath you criticize us for using words like “might” and “maybe” and say we’re “waving the white flag,” and in the next breath you’re criticizing us for “speaking with a lot of confidence and talking a lot of trash.” Those are mutually exclusive concepts. Make up your mind.
Thanks for trolling coming.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 22, 2009 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, what team actually needs their starting center?
Not having Bynum last Finals didn’t hurt you guys one bit, did it?
Go ahead and act like it doesn’t matter if one of our biggest scorers couldn’t play for these two games.
Let’s see what game 3 is like.
by Dyl on Apr 22, 2009 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!
The Lakers didn’t have Bynum and we still beat the Jazz last year. This year we have Bynum and Ariza so we will see if the outcome is any better. No one is sayint that not having Bynum didn’t hurt us. But that is in the Finals. Now when it comes to a first round match up the Lakers could still beath the Jazz. With our without Bynum or Ariza.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 22, 2009 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to have missed the point
Okur is not playing. He is our starting center, and one of our leading scorers. His absence has hurt us.
Last year, Bynum did not play in the Finals. He is your starting center, and an important player. His absence hurt you.
I really don’t care about the fact that you beat us without Bynum or Ariza last year. That is neither here nor there. You guys won the series against us without an important player … okay, we get it, we got it, and we got over it. The point is that in at least one series, you struggled without your starting center….just like we are. Just because that series was the finals doesn’t remove it from consideration as basketball.
by jaffa on Apr 22, 2009 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point...
either way Okur’s absence or presence from your line is pointless. The Lakers are the better team with or without Okur. Will it make a difference as far as it becoming more competitive with him in the game, of course it does. But it is not the type of difference that will put the Jazz over the top. When thinking of whether or not Okur will play, no one thinks, “O man! the Lakers better be ready” As you said, it’sneither here nor there.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 22, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not really what I said.
Okur’s presence is important. Bynum’s absence from the finals was important. Bynum’s absence from the Jazz series – that wasn’t important.
Whether or not Okur comes back is not neither here nor there. It does matter. No, the Jazz won’t be the better team, but that doesn’t mean they can’t win a couple games. The better team doesn’t always win the game (if it did, every season series would be a sweep…right?). Okur could have helped us get over the hump in either game. He could have played some defense. He could have reduced the minutes Collins played. No, Okur won’t be making the Lakers quake in their boots, but he makes his team better. And his team wasn’t all that far off without him.
In short:
Bynum v. Jazz last year = neither here nor there
Okur v. Lakers now = matters
Bynum v. Celtics last year ~ Okur v. Lakers this year.
by jaffa on Apr 23, 2009 1:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol that video is funny but
I mean come on, it’s Ray Allen the Celtic’s all-star starter vs. Sasha Vujacic, the Laker’s third-string bench player. The fact that one team’s all-star player owned another team’s third-string player don’t mean much.
by suns_all_the_way on Apr 22, 2009 8:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not the owning that was funny
It was his reaction when someone tried to console him. Did you watch the whole thing?
by Basketball John on Apr 23, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One last word before tommorow...
..There are very few teams which I really have no emotional feelings whatsover when the Lakers play them. But there are is one team that I seriously dislike it’s fans. Nothing towards the actual team but I cannot stand the Jazz fans. Deron Williams in my opinion is possibly the best PG in the league right now. His cross over is out of this world. But, when it comes to the fans that’s a different story. For starters I can remember last year when the Utah fans booed D. Fish. Considering what he went through with his child. Classy! On top of that, there were reports that some fans were even chanting the word “cancer”. Wow! On top of that, when Kobe was upset about the fans booing Fisher he started talking trash to the fans and he was yelling at them what did you guys do at the end of the game when the Lakers won, started throwing stuff on the court. Classy. Look any fan can talk trash about Laker fans but that one took the cake.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 22, 2009 10:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
okay
let’s settle this one. You weren’t here for the Fisher situation. You don’t know.
The way the story was reported at the time, and the things Fisher was saying at the time, seemed to indicate that he would possibly retire, or at least take some time away from the game, to care for his daughter. He said, “Life, for me, outweighs the game of basketball.” And nobody argued with that. We were grateful to him — he was beloved here in his one season, really adored. And of course we hoped for the best for his daughter.
But then Fisher signed with the Lakers two weeks — TWO WEEKS — after he was let out of his contract. After all the Jazz had done for him — no other team and no other owner would have completely let a player out of his contract, scot-free, than the Jazz and Larry Miller — it felt like a betrayal. Especially because, all through the season and in the playoffs, the doctors Fish was going to were all in New York. If he re-signed with anyone, we Jazz fans expected it to be with someone on the East Coast, to be close to the doctors who already knew and had cared for his daughter. To sign with the Lakers, one of (if not THE) biggest rival for years, and to do it so soon… well, that hurt.
Now, that doesn’t excuse ANYONE for yelling “cancer” (if such reports are to be believed) or throwing things on the court. That’s terrible behavior and no one on this site will condone it. But terrible fan behavior is hardly unique to Utah. This week, Denver fans threw things at the Hornets bench, and nobody picks on them. Stories about Philly fans are legendary. Try going to ANY Yankees-Red Sox game and see what you can hear. Fans can be jerks anywhere. You can’t extrapolate isolated actions of a few individuals to an entire fan base. (Although, I admit, we all do that.)
Again, that doesn’t excuse those awful, stupid fans who failed to show respect to Derek Fisher, a man who deserves great respect for his personal demeanor and professionalism. But Derek Fisher was booed not because his daughter was suffering from cancer, but because it felt like he stabbed the Jazz in the back — by talking as if he was going to take time away from basketball, then taking advantage of the unprecedented kindness and understanding of the team and owner by signing with a rival two weeks later. Even if his motives were 100% pure, even if that’s not the way it went down… that’s what it felt like.
Moreover, he was booed because he was now a Laker. Jazz fans boo Lakers, just as Lakers fans would boo the Celtics. Just as any rival would boo any other rival.
If you’re still not convinced of how the majority of Jazz fans feel, please see Jody Gennesy’s blog post on the Deseret News website. He just wrote almost exactly the same things that I have relayed here, almost simultaneously. The link is here.
Don’t believe what your local media is reporting without seeking the other side of the story.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 23, 2009 12:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't just that we e xpected him to sign with someone closer to the east coast
fisher said himself that he if he wasn’t going to retire/take time off, he wanted to sign with a team closer to his daughter’s medical care—which, as shums said, was in new york.
is la closer to ny than slc? do the math.
by moni on Apr 23, 2009 12:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely understand all of that..
……But even then as you said there was no point in fans acting the way that they did. We, Laker fans can relate to something similar. Especially with the part of supporting a player for him just to leave. If it wasn’t for the Lakers Ronny T. would probably not have the life that he currently has and that is both financially and physically. Not only did the Lakers pay for his medical expenses but the city and the fans supported him. Yet he left and many people hated to see him go. But in his first game back he got a standing O. After all they did for him he left for more money. But no one booed him. Yet I get your point because of Ronny left for let’s say the Spurs or Celtics it might of been tougher to cheer for him.
Finally, I will just say this. EVERY team has fans that act in a way that don’t represent the majority but because this is a competitive sport everything gets blown out.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 23, 2009 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Turiaf analogy
is interesting but breaks down in a couple of factors. Turiaf did not specifically ask to be let out of his contract. He was a restricted free agent, the Warriors made him an offer and the Lakers chose not to match that offer and re-sign him. Yes, you could say Turiaf spurned the team that supported him through his health problems for more money (which was very noble and admirable of the Lakers to do), but at the same time, you could say that the Lakers spurned him by choosing not to match the offer. That’s very different from Fish asking to have his contract negated so he could take care of his daughter and then signing a new one two weeks later, in a totally different place from where he implied he would be. Also, as you point out, Turiaf left for the Warriors, not the Spurs or Celtics, and that perhaps lessens the sting a bit.
The other thing, and this is something I will freely admit, is that Jazz fans have a certain amount of defensiveness, since our team is so disliked, our fans are so maligned, and our state is the constant butt of jokes across the country. You could even call it a victim complex, to a certain extent. Because of this, we value loyalty and effort above all else, because we see that an acceptance of our team, city and state and ourselves as fans (at least those of us who live in Utah). We take it as validation. So when a player shows any sign of disloyalty or lack of full effort, THAT makes us angry.
As an example: The 2003-2004 Jazz team is one of the most beloved, because they exceeded expectations by playing hard and playing as a team, without stars (AK notwithstanding). And when Raja Bell left after that season, we didn’t feel bad about it because there was no doubt he gave us his all while he was here (and because the Jazz couldn’t afford to match the Suns’ offer). Compare that to Carlos Boozer, who has frequently been injured during his tenure here, has shown a lack of effort at times when on the court, and who has openly talked about leaving for more money, while still wearing Jazz blue. That’s the kind of disloyalty that we as Jazz fans can’t stand.
This perceived disloyalty is what bothers us about the Derek Fisher situation. There’s no doubt Fisher gave us effort. I will never forget that playoff game, his entrance, and his instant impact. But he clearly never wanted to be here. (He implied as much, when he was first traded here from the Warriors — his unhappiness about the trade was evident.) His numbers were down across the board in his one season here (they almost immediately rebounded upon returning to the Lakers). You combine these facts with the circumstances of his departure, and add in a healthy dose of Jazz-fan defensiveness and neurosis, and you get a recipe for unpleasantness.
Once again. None of that excuses the alleged behavior of a small minority of Jazz fans toward Fisher. That sucks and we have to deal with that label. But to those who simply say “Those hicks in Utah booed a guy because his daughter has cancer,” well, that is NOT the whole story. At least know you hopefully know where we’re coming from.
Sorry for talking so much about this. I’ll shut up now.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 23, 2009 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No apology needed..
…very good to discuss this without any fan getting personal. Either way, I get the point. But trust me when I tell you that as a Laker fan i can relate to being hated. I can guarantee you that there are more people that hate/loathe the Lakers then there are people who feel the same about the Jazz.
I forgot about the boozer incident and his departure. I think that either way, Turiaf should of took less money and just like R. Bell the Lakers could not afford to pay Turiaf what he asked for. One thing that I outright disagree with is your comment that the least the Lakers could of done is match Turiaf’s offer. The Lakers didn’t owe him anything. They showed their loyalty to him.
Also, Fisher left the Lakers and didn’t want to play for Utah because he wanted to be a starter and that would not of happened in LA with Farmar and defenitely not in Utah because of D-will. This is just speculation but it wasn’t that he disliked Utah but that he wanted to be the big cheese.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 23, 2009 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
I’m sure the Lakers are probably more hated, but also much much more widely beloved. But I didn’t mean to make this into a who-hates-who-more thing. No big deal.
I wasn’t implying that the Lakers owed Turiaf more and should have matched. I don’t think I said that. I just said it could possibly be interpreted that the fact they didn’t match meant they didn’t want him, and that if he so chose he might take offense to that. But I don’t think the Lakers owed him anything else; their decision not to match was sound.
Fisher actually did start for much of the later part of that season and the playoffs with the Jazz, as the 2-guard. But I know that’s not the same, and it’s true that D-Will was the decision maker and real first-string PG. So that makes sense, that he would want to be the big cheese. I’d have no problem with that… IF he were a free agent and chose to leave, or asked to be traded. But he was under contract. He said being let out of that contract was all about his daughter. If there were any other factors in play, he didn’t discuss them. That’s what seemed a little sketchy. If it really was all about his daughter, then by all means, he did the right thing. But if there were these ulterior motives…
I don’t know. I don’t know how it went down. I’m not suggesting Fish deliberately used his daughter’s illness as an excuse to bail on his contract and essentially become a free agent. I can’t really see him doing that. Maybe he was intending to go to New York for the doctors there, or take a year off, or whatever, and it was just that he suddenly found himself able to control his own situation and the opportunity with the Lakers presented itself, and there were doctors in LA that could do the same stuff as the ones in New York, and it just so happened that it worked out. I can’t blame the guy for wanting to be in the best possible situation for himself and his family. But the circumstances definitely warrant a bit of doubt.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 23, 2009 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even worst...
…I saw this quote and it made things even worst. Especially if there is a photo out there but I will just put the actual quote that I just read and let all of you decide because it truly speaks for itself:
"…at least one fan being photographed yelling at Fisher while cruelly covering one eye."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 23, 2009 12:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The image you are referring to
can be found here. For one, who is to say he was taunting? I can’t seem to find a video of this anywhere. He was quite possibly simply photographed at a bad time (maybe he was simply moving the bill of his cap). Also, how does one guy possibly represent the whole fan base? I wish the LA media would quit trying so hard to make Jazz fans seem like the worst people on the face of the earth and show US a little respect.
by MelMan2002 on Apr 23, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
… and our Laker friend promptly posts the image on a completely unrelated topic (the ESPN poll thread) to smear us. Thanks for that.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Apr 23, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will never apologize...
although this conversation has been great my intention was just to come here and look at what Jazz fans were saying about the Lakers. I didn’t expect a love fest and I know and understand the rivalry between Laker player, fans and Utah players and fans. But as I scrolled down this post and I saw that you tube video clip I had to speak up. I understand that this is Jazz’s blog and not a Laker blog but when I saw that it was Jeff Clark from the Celtics blog who sent it to you guys that made it worst. I cannot stand that guy. He kicks Lakers fans out, I mean he literally bans you but then again he has the nerve to put up post on the Lakers blog. I dislike that guy. Anyway, back to my point. The Sasha V. video doesn’t belong on this post just as much as my pic of the Utah fan booing doesn’t belong on the other post. Either way, I was open to a conversation but that just took it over the top. So that being said, I will say that a few rotten Jazz fans represent the rest of you. You were actually very open to a conversation and I appreciate that and my intent was not to upset anyone but seriously you have got to see how horrible that gesture is by that fan. I admire Jazz fan’s passion. I wish that our stadium had the same passion but there is a line an some Jazz fans crossed it last season. We will see what happens tonight during the game….
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 23, 2009 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
OJ SImpson is a Lakers fan.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 23, 2009 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This just proves a point..
Your comments just proves the point that everyone is trying to make about Jazz fans. Is that the best that you can come up with?
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 23, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, actually it was a really smart comment.
I was trying to point out to you how ridiculous your comment was. I know you were sort of joking, but if OJ Simpson is a Laker fan, then that must mean that Laker fans are as evil as OJ Simpson. Because OJ Simpson is a much less moral person than even your friend in the Jazz crowd. Oh, and one time a Laker fan punched this Celtic fan in the face, so that is worse too.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Apr 23, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something is only smart when...
What is funny is that YOU believe your own comment is smart. A comment becomes smart only when other people say is smart not because you yourself think it’s a smart comment.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 24, 2009 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
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