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How do you like CJ now?

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"Left handers can be tricky deceptive."


I was reviewing a post that I wrote before this season comparing CJ MIles and Ronnie Brewer and I found it really enlightening to see what we all wrote about CJ Miles nearly a year ago.  To sum up, I thought then that Brewer was a much better wing player than CJ and I was relieved that the Thunder had made an offer to him (the post was written before the Jazz surprisingly matched the offer).  I was pretty lonely in my opinion that losing Miles would be an okay thing, but this season also answered some of the questions that we had about CJ one year ago.

 

Last offseason Deron Williams said of CJ: "I don't think he's ever been really given an opportunity to come in and prove himself." 

I think this is the most interesting development of this season.  CJ finally got more than a chance, starting almost every game for which he was healthy.  The way I see it, is that CJ has been underwhelming in his production as a pro and before this season he has had two valid excuses: he is young and he hasn't really had the playing time in which we can accurately judge him.  I think CJ is still young and I don't expect the world from him, but that second excuse was shot to Hell, Michigan.  So let's see what CJ did with his increased time:

To sum up, Miles got twice as many minutes as he ever has at 22 minutes a game.  And he didn't double his numbers in ANY positive category.  So to save you guys the numbers discussion, he decreased his efficiency in EVERY category while getting twice as much time.  That isn't a good recipe for NBA success.  I wouldn't go as far to say that the fact CJ started this season was the reason for our troubles or even that it led to slow starts.  But CJ decreased in efficiency, shooting percentage and free throws per game.  He did shoot a fantastic free throw percentage though.

I believe that when you evaluate a player, there are two ways you have to watch that player.  You need to look at his statistics AND you have to put those statistics into the context of the game.  When you focus on both aspects, you are less able to be fooled by a player's "game" or by flat out statistics.  And while I have pointed out that CJ's statistics didn't make the jump I would have liked to see, I actually have a bigger problem with the context of CJ's game.  In short, I just don't think games ever really have CJ's "fingerprints"on them.  He certainly doesn't do the "little things."  I can't remember the site that David Locke used to evaluate Jazz players a couple of weeks ago, but CJ ranked in the bottom 10th percentile of the entire league in defensive efficiency.  Basically he doesn't get steals, blocks or defensive deflections of any kind.  Let me elaborate on my context with CJ's defense.  Lets say that two people have had 3 fouls in a game.  They both have the same statistic.  But player A used a foul to waste some clock when his team had a foul to give.  And he fouled a guy who had an open dunk, forcing that player to make free throws rather than get an easy two.  Now take Player B.  He fouled a guy shooting a three pointer or bailed out a guy who had nowhere to go with the ball and 2 seconds left on the shot clock.  And he fouled a guy on a breakaway, who got two free throws and the ball.  The context of those fouls lets you see the truth of the statistic.  That example was a little exaggerated, but you can guess which player I liken CJ to.  I can't tell you how many times I brought up in a game thread this season that "CJ needs to learn the elementary rule, that you never foul a jump shooter."  He did it almost once a game it seemed.

As far as just being a defender, he has a loooong way to go.  I didn't want to compare CJ to Ronnie Brewer in this post, but for all the points and such that Kobe got on Ronnie Brewer, Kobe never or, not more than a couple times all series, got by Ronnie without a screen.  Ronnie stayed in front of Kobe.  But in game 5 when CJ was put on Kobe, on the second possession that the two were matched up, Kobe blew right by CJ for an "AND-1."  No screen was necessary.  Getting schooled by Kobe doesn't mean you are a bad defender.  But the effort wasn't there on CJ's part.

I am not going to pile it on CJ.  Like I said before the season, he seems like a great kid and, to be honest, I think his effort was up this season.  I cannot fault him for lack of effort.  But the bottom line is that sometimes CJ shows flashes of having a great all around game.  Some games he makes a couple steals or has a big block, hits a couple threes, drives the lane and throws down a sweet dunk and you think to yourself, "this kid could be one of the greats."   But I think the truth and CJ's biggest problem is that he isn't really good at any one thing.  He has never picked one skill to hang his hat on and just ridden it.  I think that is how you make a name for yourself.  When you are good at one thing, you get time and confidence.  And when you get those things, you can sort of broaden your skill set.  And now here comes a Wizard of Ozian change to my article.  It's positive from here.  I believe CJ can be good for the Jazz.  An anecdote:

Since Basketball John brought up his high school sporting skills, I guess I can too.  I played varsity tennis in high school (stop laughing) and I was pretty decent.  I practiced harder than almost anyone on the team after my sophmore season and I made the varsity team the following year.  I played alright my junior year, but didn't play as well as I would have liked during the state tournament.  And my weakness was serving.  I hit way too many double faults and opponents ate up my weak second serve.  So I went to work in the offseason.  I hit 1000 serves a day/5 days a week.  Sometimes I would serve 4 hours a day every day and get out once in the morning and once in the evening.  And I got really good at serving.  In short, being able to put my serve anywhere I wanted and at anytime I wanted, gave me the opportunity to limit my weaknesses.  Besides putting terrific pressure on my opponents, I was also able to force my opponents to hit the ball in certain places and I was able to minimize my weaknesses.

I think that this is the approach CJ Miles should take.  And I vote that he works on his 3 point shooting.  First of all, I think naturally his best skill is shooting.  And although Sloan would hate to hear me say it, we need 3 point shooting and I would rather have CJ be terrific at 3 point shooting and just getting by on rebounding, defending and hustle, than to play the same way he did this season, which I think was mediocre at everything.  Look at Sasha Vujacic, or Vlad Radmonivic, James Jones, Damon Jones, Boobie Gibson, or a player that I think CJ actually compares well too in JR Smith.  They aren't good all around basketball players.  But they shoot the 3 and they are or have been very valuable to their teams.

So there you go.  Were you guys surprised that I have hope for CJ Miles?  I don't expect him to start more than 10 games next season.  I think he may have had his chance.  But I also think he is more mature now and he may be able to accept the fact that he just isn't a starter yet.  But if he just hit three pointers, he could see some big minutes and some important minutes much like Korver did this season. 

All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.

Comment 19 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I'm with you 100%

CJ can be very valuable, he just needs to find his niche. I think that if the Jazz are willing to give him the contract the coaching staff needs to mold him into the player they need him to be. He’s young enough that they should be able to do it.

by prodigal punk on Apr 30, 2009 5:15 PM MDT reply actions  

Well written!

(though pretty much everything you write is, so that’s not much of a compliment)

My opinion on CJ has really changed over the course of the past year or so. While I’m still a fan, I’m starting to think that my whole “he’s got potential, he just needs time” argument has been thrown out the door.

Like you stated, he got time… and didn’t impress. He didn’t even improve, which is really disappointing. He really needs to work on his 3-point shooting… given the way the team is currently constructed, they need more shooters for when Booze (or whoever) is in the post getting double-teamed. If he improves here, he could be a huge asset to the team. Otherwise, it’ll just be money down the drain until he is traded or leaves after hitting FA.

True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on Apr 30, 2009 5:34 PM MDT reply actions  

i don't think anyone can use the "he's still young" argument anymore

cj came into the league at the same time as dwill, and even more importantly, he’s been in the jazz system for four years now. if he fits in, he would already. i think he could be a solid rotation player in the league, but i’m not sure it’s with us. the problem with cj is that he thinks he’s working and playing hard, and he has no idea that there’s another level beyond his own definition.

even if he starts hitting 3s at a high clip (and i agree, that’s the one aspect of his game he should be focusing on), he still needs to bring the hustle on d to be effective and get playing time.

by moni on Apr 30, 2009 6:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm with Moni

If he wants to be a contributor, it needs to be 3s AND big time D. Your list is maybe who he’s closest to right now, but I think the list he needs to word to become is he Raja Bell/Bruce Bowen type: an asset on D who happens to be able to drop a 3 when needed.

I think he’s a good natural passer and a decent one-on-one guy, but those aren’t skills that get a lot of play on the Jerry Sloan Jukebox.

Is he a misfit, a bust or a diamond in the rough? I think he’s a ruby in the rough. I hope he improves. I like him. But there’s definitely cause for concern.

Fine article. Very thought provoking for me.

I'll make it coach.

by MTN on May 1, 2009 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Morris Almond

I think the Jazz chose the wrong direction by going with Miles. I believe MA would have provided the scoring punch at the 2 guard that we should have gotten from Miles. Not saying Miles is a failure, he is not. He is just not right for this team. Look at Harpring…same type of player as Miles….wing player….but Harpring is known for something…he is the toughest sob to step foot on the court in a Jazz uniform. Teams have to watch out for him. He will get in your head and get you out of your game. Miles is just another “guy” on the court. He has nothing special. Never consistant. Opposing scorers abuse him. Kobe had to watch out for Brewer and Kirilenko, although it didnt matter, but he just didnt even try against Miles…or Korver.

We need to scrap Miles, Korver, Knight, Collins, Okur, and Boozer. Pick up some guys who will hustle and play hard defense every time down the court.

Pain is Temporary ~ Pride is Forever!!

by Matt_Grbac on Apr 30, 2009 6:27 PM MDT reply actions  

Mobe . . .

love him or hate him, dude gets to the FT line. He even gets calls when playing against Cleveland or Miami . . . calls that continue to elude guys like Miles, Brewer and Millsap (all guys who started parts of this season). When was the last time the Jazz had a SG get to the FT line?

Almond isn’t a perfect player, but if his role is to get open and hit jumpers then he can be pretty effectively. He can be a less spazzy version of Sasha Vuj for the Lakers who gets a chance to make open jumpers because the defense is more occupied with 3 or 4 other guys on the court.

CJ showed this season that he’s not able to make those wide open threes with the regularity that championship teams need.

This is just food for thought though.

by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 4, 2009 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Some things that just going by the numbers can't explain.

I totally disagree with the whole premise of your article. Most of the comments haven’t even taken into account some information. First, I think that CJ’s improvement has been quite good this year. It’s true that he has not doubled his numbers statistically, but that fact was expected by any real student of basketball (Varsity highschool experience – Basketball) Here is why:

Reason 1 : Cj was playing against backups, or flat out scrubs before when he did get minutes (for the most part). Now he is playing against the best five (and often defending one of the best) players on a team. So the drop in shooting percentage would be consistent.

This is part of a normal progression. This was Cj’s first time against better competition for extended periods. He always played the 1st and 3rd quarters when the other starters were on the floor, as opposed to someone like Kyle Korver (who I also like) who mainly played against backups till the end of the fourth.

Reason 2 : When CJ was playing before the other offensive options on the court would have been Fes, Ronnie Price, Maybe Matt Harpring, Jarron Collins might be in there etc. Now he is playing along side two bona-fide bigs that can score 20-30 on any given night. One Point guard who averages 19 a night, and another slasher wing man who cleans up all the trash and puts in 14.

We really can’t expect CJ to be crashing the boards with Brewer all the time can we? Somebody has to be back for the transition D (such as it has been). I think this is a HUGE factor in why his average points per minute dropped from .43 PPM to .40 PPM. Wow what a drop!

As a fan of both the Jazz, and CJ Miles play this season – not to mention a fairly knowledgable basketball fan in general, as I think most of the people here are, and obviously a lover of run-on sentences too, I think that CJ made some good strides this year. I would love to see him featured a bit more in the offense, go back and look at the games when one of our big scorers was out and you will find that more often than not it was CJ or Ronnie brewer who picked up some of the slack because there was a need for scoring (That is when Millsap wasn’t flat beastly, just having his average 14-10 game).

That being said I think the comments about improving his 3-point shooting would be effective. I actually like his defense, he’s long and seems to stay with most anyone who he defends – a HUGE departure from mr Matt Harpring the Matador wing defender, who lets his man by and then inevitably fouls him so he can finish off the and-one (is it just me or does that guy also miss more gimme layups than any NBA player… but I digress). Anyway, interesting article even though I disagree with alot of it.

by davidthecomposer on May 1, 2009 7:56 AM MDT reply actions  

Welcome to SLC Dunk, David.

I respect your comments and appreciate the fact that you disagree. I was surprised by your comments and obviously I don’t agree with a lot of your points. But you reminded me of some things that I forgot to write about CJ that I was going to. I meant to mention stats and observations, but neglected to. I am now going to update the post with some more thoughts.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on May 1, 2009 8:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

Thanks. I guess we can just agree to disagree. I neglected to make clear that I am not really sold on CJ becoming some kind of all-star wing player. I don’t think that the Jazz are paying him that kind of money, and I’m not under any illusions that he will become the next dominant wing player in the league or anything. It seemed to me like he would capitulate to the other starters at times, and kind of dissapear during stretches, but again I think that comes with more of a comfort level in the rotation. We’ll see what happens, The Jazz have bigger problems right now than CJ.

by davidthecomposer on May 1, 2009 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

You like his defense?

How could you like something that is not there? When he is on the court he is a liability. If he is guarding a true scoring SG or SF he gets handled….abused. He has had enough time to develope into whatever the Jazz wanted in him…..time for someone proven to step on and ship Miles out.

Pain is Temporary ~ Pride is Forever!!

by Matt_Grbac on May 1, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

I would do that...

Miles for a 2nd rounder….or Miles for cash…or Miles for….anyone.

Pain is Temporary ~ Pride is Forever!!

by Matt_Grbac on May 1, 2009 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

As per terms of the collective bargaining agreement or whatever

RFAs that have their contract offer matched can’t be traded to the team that gave them the offer sheet.

True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on May 1, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

I thought that was only in the first year.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on May 1, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not sure

the wwl’s trade machine says he can’t be traded for the first year, and he can’t be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. No limit is given there…

True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on May 1, 2009 8:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was very disappointed with CJ Miles, and now, I am running out of patience with him. I’d rather move his contract for some cap flexibility than keep him for next season.

I thought he was a weak defender, weak rebounder, weak passer, mediocre scorer and solid but unspectacular shooter. Too many holes and not enough strengths … so I was very disappointed with CJ’s lack of progress this past season.

I think CJ Miles has a lot of work to do on his game and I’m not sure he’ll come good.

With Boozer and Okur in the paint, I think it’s a priority to find quality perimeter defenders at every spot — I think the biggest priority is to find a stopper to play alongside Brewer, but I want to see good defenders at each starting position on the perimeter and off the bench — CJ Miles doesn’t fit in with that.

by NBR on May 1, 2009 6:51 PM MDT reply actions  

Rebuttal
How could you like something that is not there? When he is on the court he is a liability.

Not true. That would be Matt Harpring which is why his minutes went way down this year. Having an opinion is great, but if you can’t back it up with some kind of factual information it really is just that. Even if your logic is faulty at least have a reason other than
If he is guarding a true scoring SG or SF he gets handled….abused


All true scorers abuse defenders. Good offensive players consistently get theirs. When I think of a liability, again, I think of somebody like Matt Harpring, or AK on the Perimiter, who don’t have the footspeed to stay with 2 guards, and force rotations that lead to layups, dunks, and open 3-pointers. Again, I don’t think that CJ is some incredible defender, but I wouldn’t say that on a team with Boozer, Okur, Harpring, and Korver he is some great liability.

I guess if you guys were expecting CJ to be an allstar then yes, you should be dissapointed. But he had a fine season. Think about it this way, if he played full starter minutes he would be averaging 15-16 points per game (Strictly going by the numbers ;) ).

Alot of you guys keep saying that the problem with Sloan is that he wont develop the younger players, and then you want to get rid of a talented player after ONE year of extended (basically sixth or seventh man – type) minutes? I will say it again: The Jazz have way bigger problems than CJ Miles. Man I feel like the only sane person in an Asylum lol.

by davidthecomposer on May 1, 2009 9:30 PM MDT reply actions  

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