Andrei Kirilenko- Untradeable?
by clarkpojo on May 11, 2009 11:03 PM MDT
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PrintIf you read almost any article or chat transcript about the Utah Jazz, you would get the feeling that Carlos Boozer is the biggest offseason question that the Jazz have to answer. But if you ask me, and no one did, I would say that is only a question that Boozer can answer, because I believe the Jazz have already made up their mind when it comes to the question or "Boozer or Millsap?" If Boozer opts out, I think his time with the Jazz is over. That is just my opinion. But why would I write a post about other people's opinions? That is for later in this post.
Projected results of Andrei Kirilenko's offseason workouts.
I think the biggest question for the Jazz is "what is Andrei Kirilenko's value to this team?" The latest reports are that the Jazz have asked AK to put on some pounds for next season. Jump to conclusionists would say that this is proof that the Jazz are planning on having Andrei Kirilenko around for next year or that this proves that they aren't keeping Boozer around and plan to let AK play more power forward. I tend to think that asking AK to get stronger is just the right move, regardless of what you plan to do with him. i think the Jazz are probably counting on him being on the team next, since he's under contract, but will always "look to make the team better" to quote Kevin O'Connors standard answer.
But instead of coming right out and saying what I think the Jazz should do with Andrei 2010, (which I think should be his new nickname), I would like to convince the 50% or so of Jazz fans that think AK is UNTRADEABLE, end of story.
Check these sister sites of the SBN:
Over at Golden state of Mind, Warrior fans are debating the idea of a deal involving AK for Corey Maggette and pieces-
And it's almost unanimous in favor of the trade.
Or check out Sactown Royalty. They aren't as lopsided one way or the other, but many of them would be glad to give us a crappy contract in Beno Udrih and early cap relief in an expiring contract (Kenny Thomas).
Now I know that fans aren't general managers and thank goodness. Only the Knicks would improve, if that were the case. But I just wanted to prove that at least fans of other teams see a lot of value in Andrei 2010.
To sum things up, I think the Jazz might be in a win-win situation when it comes to AK. I think that he is going to have a good year this next season. I think if Boozer leaves, that he will be able to be more productive getting extended minutes at the 4. But with that said, if the right deal is available, then I would be happy for the Jazz to pull the trigger.
I don't like the idea of trading AK just for cap room, so I don't think the Kings have much to offer us. And I don't like the AK for Maggette and Crawford deal, because Crawford's deal lasts two more years if he exercises it, so the Jazz would be taking back more money this year and for the year after that. But if the Jazz could get at least one productive player back and some financial flexibility this year and/or the year after, then I say yes to the deal.
Maggette and Crawford for AK and Harpring- YES!
Maggette, Bellenelli and Brandan Wright for AK- An even bigger YES!!
Maggette and Turiaf for AK- I would wet my pants!!! Seriously, I would even post pictures.
It will be interesting to see if the rumors die away or heat up and even more fun if a trade actually goes down. Just one of the reasons that this might be the most fun offseason the Jazz have had in some time.
All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.
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warriors fan here
any way you guys would throw in a lottery protected pick in 2010 to make up for the addition of harpring’s salary (referring to deal 1. deals 2 and 3 upset me greatly)? it’s not a huge increase in salary, but 3 mil extra isn’t chump change either. if that were the case, you’d have an immediate handshake agreement from a warriors fan, which amounts to absolutely nothing in the real world, but we’ve at least brokered a hypothetical deal.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I don't know if we would be able to give you a 2010 pick.
We have the Knicks’ unprotected pick and our own, which is most likely going to Minnesota or Philadelphia, I believe. And we wouldn’t give up the Knicks pick in this deal. But a 2nd round pick or the 1st round pick in 2011, sure, I would probably do that.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
can’t believe i forgot about the wolves deal. my minnesotan friends were extremely excited about the prospect of 4 first rounders this year, even in a bad draft.
either way, yeah, i’d jump on the 2011 1st rounder. and there we have it, two fans make a great “bad contract for bad contract” deal. and one that actually seems to help both teams.
quick word of advice, bury crawford on the bench. trust me. he’s a nice kid and i’d hate to see jerry sloan murder him. just sayin’.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
a thought
if the fans on the other side are all ecstatic and unanimous about what a good deal they’d be getting, it’s probably not a good deal for us…
either that
or they just don’t fully understand the deal they’d be getting. I think it’s safe to say that we know AK’s value better than they do, and they know Maggette’s better than we do, just by virtue of having watching each of them play more. Plus, there’s always the natural desire to think that change is for the better, the whole grass-is-greener thing.
Honestly, if we were looking at trading Andrei two years ago, I’d think more about it. At this point, with our frontcourt situation up in the air, and the possibility for more post minutes for AK, and with his contract closer to ending, I think I’d lean towards keeping him around. I certainly don’t want to take on LONGER contracts in exchange for him.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
That's a fair point. That is why I said that the Jazz are in a win-win situation.
My point in writing this post was actually to prove that fanbases of other teams covet AK and that I think a deal is possible, no matter what people tell you. It was actually supposed to be a “we’re not stuck with AK, we have AK and he will be a valuable piece either on the court in the future, or as an expiring contract” piece. Then I think I got carried away and at the end of the post I started thinking that a trade was for the best. To be honest, I feel 50-50 about a trade. I think AK helps us, and I think some possible trades help us.
The thing is that Ak’s contract is going to keep us from adding pieces this year and it will hurt next year and I don’t know if the Jazz are going to be title contenders the next two years. Still could be, but it’s up in the air. Adding Maggette, even if for 5 years, fills a need for us. Maggette scores 20 points a game and gets to the line 10 times a game. He would secure our wing position, he could play off the bench, and he would provide another crunch time scorer that we desperately need. And I think he has the tools to be an adequate defender, to be honest. He has never played for a good team, but has tried to play for us in the past, so I can’t imagine he would be disappointed to come her, or unwilling to toe the line.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
AK for Maggette & Crawford
I pass on. We’re getting destroyed here. A 2-guard that sucks (Crawford) and a 2-guard with a 5-year deal (C-Mag) for our best help-defender.
The other 2, I’d jump on. I’d take Wright and hope he develops, and Turiaf would be a fine fit if ’Sap or Booze leaves.
(Someone at STR proposed Nocioni & Garcia for AK. I’d take that too. Nocioni could fill the role of overpaid 3, while Garcia could be the back-up 2… letting us deal CJ.)
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
if everyone's going to complain about ak's contract
let’s at least put him in a position to succeed (i.e. his best position) and see what he can do before we decide it’s time to move on.
I'd like to see him playing signifigant
minutes backing up Millsap next year. Millsap could play about 25-30 mpg with AK playing the rest and a few minutes at the 3.
this
would be my preference as well.
PG: Deron/Ronnie P
SG: Ronnie B/Korver/CJ
SF: CJ/AK/Korver/Harpring
PF: Millsap/AK/Koof
C: Memo/Koof
Still need another go-to scorer in crunch time besides D-Will, though. But our team interior defense would improve, I think, because as a lot of people have said, it’s not just that Boozer is an awful defender, or that Memo is an awful defender, but that they are awful together manning the post. Putting Andrei/Millsap down there helps immediately, and I think a developed The Koof can be a good defensive presence too.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that losing Boozer and freeing up post minutes for Millsap, AK and The Koof is a case of addition by subtraction.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on May 12, 2009 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am encouraged that the Koof will get a lot of time next year.
Jerry started the season giving him minutes. He doesn’t do that with many rookies. I don’t know what he did to land in the doghouse, but I think he’ll be the backup Center next year and he’ll probably get a lot of minutes when we play Houston/LA/teams with a dominant Center.
I would start AK at the 3 in that scenario and then have him move over when Millsap went out.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I miss the days...
when we were all on the computer together chatting at the same time. Sigh.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Irrelevant & highly unlikely
but I’d trade CJ & Harpring and try to somehow find a starting wing that can hit the jumper consistently.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
yes yes yes to this too
ak tends to play better when he gets more minutes for whatever reason so this arrangement works.
the problem with putting AK in his best position
is that we currently have 2 other guys who play that position better than him in the Jazz’s system.
I think he would fit much better in the Warriors system than the Jazz as a PF, because he doesn’t really fit the mould in the Jazz.. Actually, I think that is the main issue with AK full stop, he is a very good player, but he just doesn’t really fit in the system.
That they are asking him to muscle up does suggest that they are looking at playing him more at the 4 and moving either Booze or Millsap (duh) but it’s not the first time they’ve asked him to put some weight on over the break and he hasn’t been physically capable of it…
i think rotations can be adjusted for matchups
and while we all think that ak is too skinny to play the 4, he’s a lot more willing to drive than boozer, and gets to the line at a significantly higher rate than either boozer or sap.
Nope, but
if I hadn’t been at work, I would’ve asked the same question. :)
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
we can't "deal" Boozer if Boozer opts out
and if he doesn’t, we’d have to take back a similar contract, and one that wouldn’t be ending next year, and we’d have to let Millsap/Memo/both leave, or go skyrocketing over the luxury tax.
At most, we can only keep two of three out of Boozer, Memo and Millsap. That’s just a fact. I don’t see any possible way where we keep all three of them, unless we do some mad salary dumping with the rest of the roster and gut the team completely. But Boozer will opt out first and teams will make big offers to Millsap, forcing our hand too soon.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
"Maggette, Bellenelli and Brandan Wright for AK"
Not a bad trade idea there, if we somehow lost both Boozer and Millsap. Otherwise we are back in the position of trying to get people enough playing time. I am of the mindset we need to concentrate on getting the best possible 8 players, not 10 or 11. That just creates problems with playing time. The 9th – 14th players should be low money guys who are just happy to be on the team. Better chemistry, and it goes back the fact each team can only really afford to pay about 8 players well.
By the way, if AK can get out of playing for Russia this summer it will help immensely. People forget, he has been playing non-stop for a lot of years now. Being ran down is a big part of the problem at this point. He doesn’t seem to want to go recklessly after blocks like he used to.
His recklessness diminished after his surgery a couple years ago
Remember that “hammer dunk” that was his stock highlight from the Arroyo years? When’s the last time you saw him throw one down in traffic? He lost a lot of recklessness in that surgery. He’s never really been the same. I think the same might end up being true of Boozer too.
I'll make it coach.
Plus having Boozer as a "team leader"
has probably hurt his aggression. I remember years ago (pre Boozer) AK going up to block Shaq and getting dunked on plus taking an intentional elbow to the face from. A few plays Shaq goes for the dunk, AK for the block, and the same thing happens. But AK went for it anyways, and it helped rally the team. Soon everyone was swarming Shaq. Its not always the stop that matters, it is the attitude of not being intimidated.
Compare that to the horrible late season loss to Minn. when with about 7 min and Minn making a run – getting the momentum – Minn is on a three on one fast break with Boozer the only player back, I am yelling at the screen “Boozer don’t be a pussy!” and then watch as “I am a warrior” Booz runs out of the picture while the player dribbling down the court hammer dunks it without even having to change directions.
Why sacrifice your body day in day out when your team caption won’t even do it on a critical play?
i can't find the stats for this season
but last season, collins drew 34 charges to boozer’s 5…despite boozer playing 2000+ more minutes than collins. (dwill led the the team in taking charges; the only players with less offensive fouls drawn were almond and hart) that’s just one example. boozer won’t even dive for a loose ball, much less sacrifice his body to play defense
yeah but
Flop doesn’t sacrifice his body either, he just falls over :)
AK’s reputation has taken a hit now as well after his flop of the century earlier this season. I loved it though :)
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