Offseason suggestions- Free agent edition
by clarkpojo on May 5, 2009 12:51 PM MDT
Email
Print
Do you even know who this is? I am hoping that the Jazz do.
Hello, and welcome to an all new episode of Offseason Moves. In this episode we will be exploring every possible free agent available this offseason and decide if he could possibly factor into the Jazz's offseason plans moving forward. For today's purposes, we will work under the assumption that the Jazz can sign one (1) free agent to part or all of the mid-level exception (up to $5 million/year), and sign any other free agents to the minimum salary. The team's economic circumstances will obviously limit the realistic possibilities of obtaining many free agents. By my count there could be up to 100 unrestricted free agents, not including free agents of the Jazz, and a handful of restricted free agents that the Jazz could take a peek at. So we have a lot of work ahead.
THE HOT CHICK IN HIGH SCHOOL- Players that will either not opt out of their bloated final year, or will be too expensive to sign in free agency (14)
Kwame Brown Kobe Bryant Jamal Crawford Eddie Curry Marquis Daniels Devean George Eddie House Zydrunas Ilgauskas Jerome James Lamar Odom Jermaine O'neal Quentin Richardson Hedo Turkoglu Anderson Varejao
THE PRIMA DONNAS- Players that either wouldn't play backup or stoop low enough to play for the Jazz or else the Jazz just don't want them (11)
Ron Artest Matt Barnes Mike Bibby Drew Gooden Ricky Davis Al Harrington Allen Iverson Jason Kidd Stephon Marbury Andre Miller Shawn Marion
PISTACHIO JELLO SALADS- It doesn't matter how many get togethers you take them to or teams you put them on...they just aren't ever good. (12)
Maceo Baston Jason Collins Stephen Graham Gerald Green Jason Hart Mike James Raef Lafrentz Shavlik Randolph Kareem Rush Robert Swift Stromile Swift Jake Voskuhl
THE FOGEYS AND THE JARRON COLLINSES- Either good players who are just too old to contribute, or else players that just don't make the team better(44).
Malik Allen Maurice Ager Mark Blount Keith Bogans Calvin Booth Ryan Bowen Devin Brown Rodney Carney Anthony Carter Brian Cook Jarron Collins Juan Dixon Francisco Elson Melvin Ely Adonal Foyle Trenton Hassell Luther Head Juwan Howard Lindsey Hunter Steven Hunter Royal Ivey Bobby Jackson Anthony Johnson Dahntay Jones Damon Jones Jamal Magloire Sean Marks Desmond Mason Chris Mihm Mikki Moore Rasho Nesterovic Kevin Ollie Malik Rose Michael Ruffin Cedric Simmons james Singleton Brian Skinner Etan Thomas Ime Udoka Jacque Vaughn Mike Wilks Shelden WIlliams Damien Wilkins Lorenzen Wright Jarvis Hayes James Singleton Joe Smith Fred Jones
3CPOs- PLAYERS WHO SPEAK MORE THAN 5 LANGUAGES BUT HAVE A BLOWN OUT KNEE (1)
Dikembe Mutombo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that we have limited our list of free agents to about 20 players or so, we need a way of deciding who is a better fit with Utah. The way I see it, the Jazz have certain needs that can be addressed through free agency. Besides fulfilling a minimum number of players on the roster, the Jazz need veteran presence on the team, a shot blocker or interior defender, a backup power forward, a player who can create his own shot or shoot the 3, and a backup point guard. The Jazz can't or probably won't fill every need through free agency, but there are some players that would work. I have developed a point system of 5 important categories ranked one to five for a total of up to 25 points. The categories are:
Veteran presence- players will get low marks for being young or having character issues, average for just playing about 6 years, and high marks for having a history of being a team leader.
Team need- the agents will be judged on whether they fill one of the team's needs and how much they fill that need
Affordability- The Jazz can't afford anyone who will command more than $5 million/year in free agency. Players that will play for a minimum salary will receive high marks.
Their attitude or how they would fit in with the Jazz system- This is pretty self explanatory. Ballhogs and Kirk Snyder need not apply.
Overall skill at their position- This has to be a category, because anyone can fill a need and be a good guy, but if they aren't good enough to get on the court, they might not be worth the trouble.
The players will be ranked a 1-no thanks 2-poor 3-average 4-good or a 5-excellent. If a player scores a one in any category, they are disqualified. Those are big red flags. So let's break each player down starting with the guards.
Travis Diener- Vet- 2 Need-4 Affordability- 5 Attitude-4 Skill-3 Total Score: 18
Diener is just an average backup pg, but he can shoot the ball (40% from threes last season) and knows how to run a team. He has only been in the league 3 years, but he is worth a look this offseason. His expiring contract is only $1.7 million, so he may be playing for the minimum if he makes a team next year.
Ronald "Flip" Murray- Vet-3 Need-4 Affordability- 3 Attitude-3 Skill-4 Total: 17
The Jazz could really use a fearless scorer off the bench like Murray. He averaged 12 points a game this season in only 24 minutes a game. But even if he was willing to play for cheap, it's hard to imagine that he wouldn't find other teams that would want him, that he would want more.
Ben Gordon- Vet- 3 Need-5 Affordability-1 Attitude- 3 Skill-5 Total: Disqualified
I hate to break it to you, but if the Jazz acquire Ben Gordon this offseason, it won't be through free agency. His asking price will be too high. Unless he has this deep, burning desire to play for the Jazz, he won't sign here.
Von Wafer- Vet-2 Need-4 Affordability- 3 Attitude-3 Skill-4 Total: 16
Von Wafer is athletic, can shoot the ball, and will probably be affordable. But it will be hard ot pry him from Houston, and he is a bit of a chucker and maybe to streaky for the Jazz system.
Quentin Ross- Vet-2 Need-4 Affordability- 5 Attitude-4 Skill-4 Total: 19
I am a huge Quentin Ross fan. He is a very underrated lock down defender, who has never caused any trouble playing for only dysfunctional teams his entire career. He also shot 39% from the 3 last season. He played for the minimum this year and would do it again. And we could never have too many defenders in my opinion.
Anthony Parker- Vet-2.5 Need- 4 Affordability- 2 Attitude- 4 Skill-4 Total: 16.5
I like Parker. We would only have a shot at him, if Toronto didn't really want him back, or else he really wanted out of Toronto. He will probably have to play for about $2-3 million/ year, which is affordable since he averaged 11 points and 3.5 assists off 40% shooting from the 3.
Grant Hill- Vet- 5 Need-4 Affordability- 4.5 Attitude- 5 Skill-3 Total: 21.5
In some ways Grant Hill is the perfect fit for the Jazz. He is the good character, veteran guy that they need, he could probably get some quality time at the wing positions for the Jazz, and he will want to play for a tilte contending or at least very competitive team. He played for the veteran minimum last season and if he wants to play next season, he would probably do it again. Put him on the list of people the Jazz should actively pursue.
Michael Finley- Vet-5 Need-4 Affordability-4 Attitude-4 Skill-3 Total: 20
I consider Finley to be just a step lower than Hill as a fit with the Jazz, but he would certainly be worth a look. He isn't as good of an all-around player as Hill, even this late in their careers, but he shot over 40% from the 3 last season. We could use some killer shooting. But is it a foregone conclusion that SA wants him back?
Wally Szczerbiak- Vet-4 Need-4 Affordablilty- 2 Attitude-4 Skill-3.5 Total: 17.5
The determining factor here is how cheap a contract Wally would be willing to play for and if he would even be interested in the Jazz. But he makes this list because he is a veteran, shot 41% from the 3 last season and 40% for his entire career. That is good three point shooting.
Trevor Ariza- Vet- 2 Need-4.5 Affordability-1 Attitude-4 Skill-4.5 Total: DQ
While Ariza is an intriguing prospect, the Lakers are going to want to keep him and if they can't they are going to drive up his price tag from sort of affordable to "no way in H" zone.
Brandon Bass- Vet- 2 Need- 4 Affordability-5 Attitude-3 Skill-4 Total: 18
I really like Brandon Bass. I think he could be a really fantastic backup power forward for us. He is similar to Millsap in his size and effort, but he isn't getting the same hype as Millsap or David Lee. It isn't inconceivable that he will play for less than $2 million this next season, but getting in a bidding war with Dallas might be like entering a land war in Asia.
Antonio McDyess- Vet-5 Need-4 Affordability-2 Attitude-4 Skill-4 Total: 19
Like so many free agents, it is hard to know if he has any interest in the Jazz or if he would be willing to play for part of the mid-level exception. But he would be a great veteran and the guy can still play some ball, grabbing a high rate of rebounds last season at the 4 and 5 spot.
Rasheed Wallace- Vet- 4 Need-5 Affordability- 1 Attitude-3 Skill-4 Total: DQ
I put Sheed on the list as a long shot and fun possibility to consider, but word is that he will retire if he doesn't get an $8 million offer next season, so... yeah.
Zaza Pachulia- Vet-2.5 Need- 3.5 Affordability-2.5 Attitude-4 Skill-3.5 Total: 16
He would be a younger and more skilled version of Jarron Collins. He is slighty more athletic, more energetic and a much better finisher at the rim than Collins. But he may command closer to a full mid-level exception this offseason for a team needing bigs.
Chris Andersen- Vet-3 Need-5 Affordability-4.5 Attitude-4 Skill-5 Total: 21.5
I lobbied for the Jazz to sign Andersen last season, despite his off court issues and I hate to brag, but I was really right. He is just the thing the Jazz need. He rebounds, hustles and tries to block everything within a 15 foot radius. And it isn't only the shots he blocks, but teams just attack the basket less when he is in. And he doesn't demand the ball on offense. And having drug issues and character issues are not the same thing. He has been a saint this season and is a fan favorite. I wouldn't hesitate in offering this guy up to 4 or 5 million dollars a year if we can afford him. I think part of the mid-level exception might be enough to get him, because if Denver wants to avoid the tax, then they will have to decide between Andersen and JR Smith. I can't tell you how much I believe this guy would change our team for the better. Let me put it this way: if Andersen is playing for the Jazz and not the Nuggets this last season, the Jazz are hoisting the Division Banner, regardless of their injuries.
Theo Ratliff- Vet- 4 Need-4 Affordability-5 Attitude-3 Skill-2 Total: 18
I think Ratliff would have been a good idea about two seasons ago, but he is probably too old and isn't really contributing with a less talented 76er team.
Donyell Marshall- Vet-4 Need-3 Affordability-5 Attitude-4 Skill-3 Total: 19
Hey, don't laugh. There would be a lot of worse options. I don't think he is a difference maker, but I wouldn't mind him returning to Utah for the veteran minimum as a 12th or 13th man. He could be our sleepy Sam Perkins.
Chris Wilcox- Vet- 3 Need-4 Affordability-5 Attitude-3 Skill-4 Total: 19
I really like the idea of Wilcox as a backup power forward. He has a large skill set; talent has never been an issue. If anyone could get anything out of him, it might be Sloan. He played for $1.7 million this season, so there is a chance he would play for the minimum. If that was the case, he would be a bargain to take a flyer on him.
So here are some of the top point getters
Chris Andersen- 21.5
Grant Hill- 21.5
Michael Finley-20
Quentin Ross-19
Antonio McDyess- 19
Chris Wilcox-19
Donyell Marshall-19
Travis Diener-18
Restricted Free Agents of Note:
Hakim Warrick
Steve Novak
Bobby Brown
Bottom Line: I think that a back up point guard would be better supplied by the draft this year, but there are some players on this list that could really help the team. My perfect offseason scenario would be this:
Jazz sign Chris Andersen for $3-5 million a year.
Jazz convince Grant Hill to sign for the veteran minimum.
Jazz sign Quentin Ross and Chris Wilcox to the league minimum.
The Jazz would be able to do this and stay under the tax if they let Boozer walk, sign Millsap to something under 8 million a year and cut salary by either trading Matt Harpring or Mehmet Okur in a salary dump, or by trading AK and Matt Harpring while bringing only $18 million in salaries back.
Then I would imagine our lineup looking like this:
Deron, Brewer, Grant Hill, Paul Millsap, and Okur/Koufos/Andersen
with Ross, Miles, WIlcox/AK, and Koufos/Andersen off the bench.
All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.
55 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I wouldn't mind Stromile Swift
And I think the Nuggs would be insane not to resign Birdman. Honestly, nobody else excites me at all. Wally? Are you kidding me? He’d have trouble scoring in a college game these days, and Harpring could beat him off the dribble. Everybody on this list seems like a Devon Brown type (is that the name of the guy we had and then he went to New Orleans?), and we already have those types on our team already. No point in getting more of them.
I'll make it coach.
You cant write off
Gerald Green…..he is still very young and is very talented. He will eventually blossom in this league…mark my words.
Pain is Temporary ~ Pride is Forever!!
That's funny.
I almost named it the “Gerald Green Rule” rather than the Jello Salad, because everytime he finds a new team all of the reports come out about how this will be his breakout year and then by the end of his stay he isn’t getting productive minutes. The exact same thing happened in Dallas. He hasn’t figured out the game yet and I don’t think he ever will. He is older than CJ Miles and we all see how that is turning out. Would you sign CJ Miles to a contract if he were a free agent this year?
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I'd pass on Hill
yeah, he might’ve been healthy this year, but do we really need to risk it?
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
As for Ariza
the Lakers might have to pick between him & Odom. There is a shot he’s available, and if he is, I’d jump.
A Brewer/Ariza duo would be an amazing wing duo (defensively, at least)
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I would LOVE
to resign Millsap and get McDyess as well, if he plays the same way he played near the end of the year for Detroit. A player like Dice, 20+ minutes a game as a backup to Millsap? WANT. But I doubt he’d leave Detroit so late in his career, he likes it there.
I think Grant Hill is a good fit too, he played surprisingly excellent defense this year.
If, as you say, the Nugz will be forced to choose between Birdman and JR, it’s hard not to pick JR, but Birdman has played too well down the stretch for the Nugz, his market value may have gone up. Shot-blocking big men are ALWAYS the most valued commodity in the league.
One other thing to consider is, if the Jazz pick up any free agents/new players, who will they be losing in return, to make room on the roster? If we’re not resigning Mo Nuts or Collins, there’s two roster spots. Assuming Boozer walks, there’s a third. But that only takes us down from 15 to 12. AND we’d still have a first-round draft pick, who gets a guaranteed roster spot, then a second-rounder who isn’t guaranteed but would probably be given a fair shot. So now you’re talking ONE extra roster space, and that’s if the injury reserve spots are utilized all season. (Obviously, I’m assuming everyone else on our roster is resigned.)
The other thing to consider is value over replacement player. Do we let Korver go to sign Grant Hill? Do we let Fesenko go to sign Chris Wilcox? Would Chris Andersen fit our team needs better than Memo, if money dictates we can only have one? Just another thing to consider.
Also, a lot of your scenarios seem incumbent upon moving Matt Harpring somehow. I really really doubt this is going to be possible. Not only do I think a lot of teams won’t want him, but they definitely won’t want his contract, and won’t be willing to let us salary dump. On top of that, I’m sure Jerry and the organization like him too much to drop him. No, I think Matty stays, and I think that has a large effect on the amount of free agent spending the Jazz can do.
Anyway, thanks for doing the legwork Clark. Lots to think about there.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
Some off the cuff answers:
The Nuggets are committed to 10 players at $ 63 million and both Andersen and JR Smith are free agents and the Nuggets have been avoiding the tax like the plague. The Jazz are only committed to $58 million if Boozer opts out, so I think we have as good of a chance, if not better than Denver, of getting Andersen. Plus he is unrestricted.
As far as roster space, I would be surprised if the Jazz pick up Fes’ option. I also think the Jazz will pick up one back up point guard to replace Price and Knight. It still could be Price, but they won’t have 3 point guards. And if the Jazz are able to part with a player (Harpring) for free, then we would have room to sign two-three free agents and a first round pick.
Speaking of Harpring, I think the Jazz have a very real chance of dumping his salary on another team. The best thing to own this season, even more than cap space, is going to be expiring contracts. When you have cap space in the offseason, you are limited to who you can sign. It’s only free agents. But if you have 10-15 million dollars in expiring deals, then you will be able to pick from a number of star players that teams are trying to “dump” at the trading deadline and usually at a fantastic price. Look at New Orleans. They traded Tyson Chandler for almost nothing and now they are rumored to be tossing David West in the trade ring and all they want back is expiring contracts. The Jazz would only be able to use those expiring deals the right way if they weren’t over the cap themselves.
But if we were able to unload Harpring, I think we could afford to offer Andersen the full mid-level exception, which is probably as much as anyone will be willing to offer to him. And if we further moved Mehmet, then the Jazz could either re-sign Boozer, or else sign and trade him for some missing pieces. I can’t believe that unless they get the top pick in the draft that Sacramento wouldn’t be interested in a sign and trade deal with Boozer for Kevin Martin. A lot of names of shooting guards have been thrown out there this offseason as good fits with the Jazz, but I am telling you that Kevin Martin is the best fit, not only of people available, he may be the best fit there could be in a shooting guard. He is affordable for a top 10 scorer in the league and he shoots a high percentage for having to take nothing but difficult shots.
I love Memo, but if the Jazz can get better, it would be worth it to unload him on Atlanta, or Memphis, or OKC.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Isn't he their whole franchise right now? Wouldn't that be like us giving away DW?
I'll make it coach.
I don't think he is the most available player in the league, but I think he is available.
There have been whispers in Sacramento that he isn’t their franchise guy, or at least it might look too hard to make him the cornerstone of the team and surround him with real talent. He is on the books for 4 more years and $46 million, which is actually pretty cheap for a guy who creates his own shot and scores 25 points a game while shooting 42% from the 3. I especially think, he may be more available if the Kings get the 2nd pick in the draft. I think a sign and trade with Boozer or Boozer straight up, if he doesn’t opt out, would be enticing. And I think that would be a trade where you would consider giving up the 2010 pick if you don’t think it will be a top 3 pick next year.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Is KOC hiring an assistant? Or can you make a big sign and picket his office?
this is officially my favorite off-season move idea.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 6, 2009 9:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Mine too. I change my mind on what to offer them.
I say offer the Kings anything short of Deron and call them everyday to annoy them into the deal. I say you offer Boozer and the Knick’s pick regardless of how that pick is going to turn out. I’m actually going to try to contact Kevin O;Connor and see if he will allow me to participate in an unpaid internship.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I'd use the pick as a last resort
maybe Booze and this year’s pick (it’s a PG heavy draft… I don’t see them drafting a first-round PG no matter how much I ask).
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
It looks as though I have stirred an empty pot.
Sources say the Kevin Martin is unavailable in any way. Maybe next season. He does want to play hear. That has been confirmed.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
That said
No regular-rotation player in the league (that I could find) had a worse set of defensive stats: Kings’ opponents scored an NBA-high 118.1 points per 100 possessions when Martin was on the floor, which dropped to 113.6 when he was on the bench. Also, opponents shot 53.5% EFG when he played and 51.7% when he didn’t.
But Martin’s the NDPOY not just because of stats. It’s because of so many things–he had only 8 blocks in 1,947 minutes; he had a -246 plus/minus, which gave him a worse per-minute rate than almost every other Kings regular (and Martin’s supposed to be their best player); Martin scored a lot but whenever he was matched against a tough wing opponent, that guy usually scored more, at a higher shooting percentage.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
He isn't a good defender, but that may be what it takes to make him available to us.
If the Kings realize he isn’t the complete player they thought. But going from 118 to 113 isn’t good. The entire Kings defense is horrendous and they couldn’t begin to hide Martin’s defensive deficiencies. If we put him on the other teams worse offensive player out of the 2 and 3, specifically someone who can’t drive as effectively, then he won’t be as bad of a defensive player.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
i'd like to throw all the backup 4 minutes at ak
give him more of a chance to be effective by playing him at his better position. especially if he does work on his strength this summer.
please please please
draft patty mills to be backup pg. the jazz haven’t had skill/energy combo coming off the bench at that position since mo williams. maybe its a lost cause, sloan wouldn’t play him anyway, no matter how good he was
birdman is the bomb
Your lusting for Chris Anderson could only be worse if you lived in Denver and still rooted for the Jazz. Like I do. Very painful watching him excel for Nugs this year while Jazz stop absolutely nobody in the paint. He is without question the best fit FA to what the Jazz need. And he is just great to watch. I expect many teams to chase him. Nugs also know that if the Jazz get him that this year will be their one and done win of the NW conference.
3 PGs
j-slow always has 3 PGs. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the team go get a 3rd one.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Not this year. The Jazz and every other NBA team is going to keep the league minimum 13 players.
There are always point guards in the D-league if one of our 2 gets injured.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Or players
like AK who can take that role when needed.
A name that has certainly been bandied about. He would only cost $400,000 this year.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
As Solicitor for Satan, I'll toss a couple pennies into the gearbox...
Bottom Line: I think that a back up point guard would be better supplied by the draft this year, but there are some players on this list that could really help the team. My perfect offseason scenario would be this:
Jazz sign Chris Andersen for $3-5 million a year.
Jazz convince Grant Hill to sign for the veteran minimum.
Jazz sign Quentin Ross and Chris Wilcox to the league minimum.
1. Birdbrain is a big and Centers garner an enormous premium (Andrew Bogut and Andrew Bynum, anyone?). Nor is he flying under anyone’s radar… Look for him to make more like $5-10M, not $3-5M. Nor will Denver want to lose him to a division rival — they will play for keeps.
2. Likewise, I think the Ghost of Grant HIll has proved that he can still play. I doubt he’s going to be signing for the veteran minimum — more likely he would retire if it came to that. But someone will pay him more.
You don’t want Rasheed Wallace, by the way. Trust me.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Milled Animal
Excellent post, by the way.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Milled Animal
Thank you.
I agree with you about Andersen. I am afraid that someone is going to offer more than the Jazz can pay for him. But the seaon of offering players big, fat contracts is pretty much over. Free agents are going to make money on a lower tier than offseasons past. The question is, “how much lower will that tier be?” I think many teams will be willing to offer him the mid-level exception. How many would offer him a starting job though? That is where I wonder if it would be worth it to sign him as a starter and let Okur go. I’m not saying, just wondering. I think that would make the Jazz significantly worse next season, but closer in the long run to being a contender.
You may be right about Hill too. But his minimum is going to be $2 million which isn’t a paltry amount of money. I just think he will want to play for a contender. Speaking of which, Hill would be a fantastic sign for the Blazers.
As far as Sheed goes, he isn’t a good character guy, but he was the difference in Detroit winning a title. I don’t think one person in Detroit regrets that move now.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Target the Bulls!!
One team who the Jazz need to be on the phones with right now is the Bulls. A deal that might actually fly and help both teams is to sign and trade Boozer for Hinrich and Noah. The salaries would work out.
The plus for the Bulls is that they are looking for a post scorer, and whatever Boozer isn’t, he is that. He could play center in the East against most teams, and they have Miller to help bang against the couple big teams out there. If Bosh can be a hero in the East (yes – he is overrated) Boozer can be too. They should know that. The other plus is they get to dump a ten mill salary being payed to a third guard. The down would be losing an up and coming defensive big man who is a winner (even if flaky).
For the Jazz, the real point is getting Noah, who would compliment Okur. Hinrich is one down, because he would be very overpaid. On the upside, he would actually be a great addition. The other big down is Utah couldn’ t resign Millsap (which they won’t be able to with any sign and trade with Boozer).
The Bulls probably would ask for the Knicks draft pick, but the Jazz could probably counter with their own first round pick and get the deal done.
Hinrich and Noah aren't worth it. They're both backups on a championship team.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 8, 2009 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions
We only need them as back-ups though
If they want a pick, I’d be less interested though. They’re getting the best player in the deal, and getting rid of an overpaid PG. They don’t need a pick.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Yeah
but if half of the team is leaving, we need to replace them. And money isn’t really present, so cheaper options = better options.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
tom sawyer
I’m trying to understand what we get out of it… Noah and an overpaid pg? Isn’t that like a Tom Sawyer trade, “I’ll let you whitewash this fence if I can have your apple…”
I'll make it coach.
I like Hinrich and Noah as players but that deal would hurt the Jazz.
Like you said, it would be financially difficult to have them. We would most likely lose Millsap. And if there is one thing we can’t do, it is willingly not retain Millsap or Boozer. If they both want waaay too much money, then you consider looking elsewhere, but you can’t just plan on letting both go. If we did that deal, we would have Okur, Koufos and Noah as our best bigs. Good defensively, but we would be lacking in the frontcourt.
In fact, I think we would immediately become the Western version of the Chicago Bulls.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Okur
I am surprised to see alot of people on here wanting Okur to go. We need bigs people, not let them go. What do you want to see, Okur and Boozer gone next year? Look, the only big that we need to let go besides Collins and Fess is Boozer. Koufas will be a good player in this league, and we need to sign Millsap, but we need Okur. He is a hell of a shooter, when the game isdown to the wire, you can count on him making the huge shot, he is a decent rebounder, and a better defender than Boozer. If you let Okur go, then who starts at C, and who backs him up? Koufas and Fess? Great, We get rid of Booz the Looz, then we get rid of Okur. OK, we just lost 35 points and 18 rebounds a game. People, We need Okur.
10 to 1 that Okur is not going anywhere.
He won’t opt out, and the Jazz will probably try to sign him to a reasonable extension. Go through all the centers in the league in your head. He is top ten easy. You can’t trade him for a better one, so you have to work from that.
Let me clarify the Boozer / Noah, Hinrich proposal
I was going under the assumption Boozer doesn’t opt out. If he opts out, the Jazz will have about 7mill to sign a free agent (they will try to drop a few mill from the team total ). They will sign Milsap for that and wait another year. Next year, if they want to make a move they have the Knick’s pick plus Kirelinko’s expiring contract. The only other free agent that is even in Milsap’s league for that money is Andersen, and even without Larry, right or wrong, the Jazz won’t make that choice in these financial times and risk alienating a portion of the fan base.
If Boozer doesn’t opt out, the Jazz lose Millsap no matter what. Remember, seven mill over the luxury tax threshold costs the team about 16 mill. In this scenario, I am of the camp that say’s they have to move Boozer. In that case, Hinrich / Noah is the best I can think of that is realistic.
That does make much more sense if Boozer doesn't opt out. But their are ways to get rid of some of or all of his salary if he doesn't.
So the Jazz would probably still sign Paul Millsap to a contract, even if Boozer doesn’t opt out.
The highest amount of money that can really sign anyone to, no matter what happens with opting out, is the full-mid-level exception. That will be about $5 million a year. I personally think the only free agent that would be would be worth that money and that might play for that amount is Chris Andersen. I wouldn’t even offer $5 million to Trevor Ariza, because he doesn’t fill a need for us.
And your comment about alienating the fanbase by signing Chris Andersen, troubles me a little bit. He isn’t the bad character guy that people make him out to be. I have just noticed that a lot of people have made disparaging comments about him as if he is some sort of social leper. He isn’t Latrell Sprewell or Ruben Patterson for crying out loud. If people don’t like him or, don’t like his tattoos, fine. But it shouldn’t be a reason not to sign a guy. He has never done anything off the court behavior wise that puts up a big red flag other than test positive for a drug that hasn’t been officially identified in the media ever. And if one drug instance is a reason not to sign a guy, then the Jazz are going to have a hard time fielding a team without discrepancies similar to that. That’s really judgmental for a guy who doesn’t have a history that many people think he does.
I mean, even if the Jazz landed Kobe Bryant, or worse, Sasha Vujacic, I wouldn’t be ecstatic about it. But I wouldn’t stop being a Jazz fan, because of it or stop going to their games.
I do know a handful of people who would in Bryant’s case.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I have no problem with Andersen at all.
He would be a great addition. I am saying they wouldn’t risk alienating the fanbase who would have a problem with a guy known drug problem. But it is a moot point. We could only pay Andersen the money without Booz or Millsap. The Nuggets will resign him for the opposite reason. Denver fans love him.
That's good to hear that you don't have anything against him.
I don’t think the Jazz are out of the running for a midlevel exception player, if Boozer leaves. They would just have to make some financially saavy moves to free up some space, but I think that Kyle Korver, Matt Harpring, Mehmet Okur, and maybe even CJ Miles are all very moveable and cash saving options. I am not saying that the Jazz should get rid of Korver for free, but I would probably rather have Andersen and a cheap shooter than Korver. Or clearing Harpring, CJ or Mehmet would give them ample space.
As far as Denver goes, if Boozer opts out, they have less available money than we do. If Boozer opts out, then we have at most $57.5 milion tied up on 9 players without having signed Millsap. But the Jazz have more possible opt out scenarios and players that will be easy to move.
Denver has just over $63 million committed to 10 players next season and that is with JR Smith and Chris Andersen as free agents. So they are basically going to have to decide whether to bring back Smith or Andersen, but they don’t have very much flexibility at all with Billups, Martin, Anthony, and Nene being paid over $10 million a year. And Denver is a team that is avoiding the luxury tax like we are. Andersen is unrestricted, so if he gets an offer that Denver can’t match, he is probably gone, no matter how much they want to keep him. So like the Jazz, Denver would probably have to get Andersen back at the expense of one of their big guys, Anthony, or Billups.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Just curious
why are you so anti-Memo?
He’s not as overpaid as AK, he’s one of the better shooters on the team, and he’s improved his post game as well.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I have not one thing against Memo. I would really like to keep him. He is probably my 3rd favorite player on the team.
But he is also the most attractive piece to offer another team, so I think he is more sure of an option.
I would much rather move Harpring, Miles, or Korver than Okur. Okur should be a last option. He is pretty cheap and he has also shown that he isn’t injury prone and that he is developing different facets of his game.
But you can’t tell me that he is certainly the long-term answer at starting center. If a better deal came a long, we would have to consider moving him.
Miles and Harpring I would be happy to give up just for cap space in order to sign a good free agent. And perhaps Korver too. I like Korver a lot. I just don’t know if he is helping the team that much.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Actually, I don't see how Harpring or Korver can be used to gain cap space.
And I am not being factitious. Since they are on expiring contracts, they could be used in a trade to a team trying to LOSE payrole after next year, but we would be getting back a longer contract. No one with cap space would trade a lesser contract to us for those contracts because that would make no sense. Actually, the Jazz front-office is talking about how they have a plan to not go over the luxury tax thresh-hold, but unless someone opts out, I just don’t see that happening. Really what is their plan? Signing Miles seems that much crazier now. Actually, I wish the front office would enlighten us with their plans.
Here is my rant about the Jazz management / coaching staff, by the way. They chased Raja Bell out of town by making him come off the bench, then signing Giricek to an extension. Anyone wish we had a guard who was a lockdown defender and great spot up three-point shooter? Anyone?
Kirilenko makes the All-Star team as a 4, so they sign him to a huge extension then go out and spend another 20+mill per year on TWO MORE 4’s?? I have hated the Boozer signing since the get go. I was pure arrogance to think they should wrap up all their cap space on three players playing the same position. They simply assuming they could make two of them change positions successfully. Okur made the transition, but … well…not so much their highest payed player. Not to mention that automatically relegated what had been their second best player at the time (Harpring) to the bench.
Let’s not forget letting Mo William go so we could resign Carlos Arroyo. Then the Miles signing when they knew the financial situation of the team. Actually I am loosing heart as I write this.
Rant over….
Teams that are under the salary can take on our players without giving anything back.
So if OKC wants Korver, even if he doesn’t opt out, we can just give him ot the Thunder, for instance, and they could give us some cash, or we could switch second round picks or something. That is why the Nuggets were able to trade Camby to the Clippers last year for nothing but cap space. There are about 8 teams that could afford to take on Miles, Korver, or Harpring for free and there are like 4 or 5 teams that can afford to take on Okur for free, if that is something the Jazz want to do.
As far as keeping the fans in the dark, the front office doesn’t know what they are doing yet. They have yet to have their annual meeting where they talk about what to do in the offseason. It is coming soon.
And the Jazz didn’t chase Raja Bell, or Mo Williams out of town. I am not sure what you are remembering. Giricek signed an extension the summer after the 2004 season. Bell left for Phoenix after the 2005 season, partly because the Jazz couldn’t pay him as much as he was commanding, but mostly because he wanted to play for a contender and especially Phoenix. The Jazz had just come of a 26 win season and the Suns were playing for a title. The Jazz had Kirilenko, Boozer and Okur all that year for over $30 million, so they were financially strapped. Bell signed for $5 million a year and the Jazz couldn’t afford him. They wanted to keep him, but just couldn’t. Was that a mistake? Probably. But when the Jazz made that decision to sign Giricek, they didn’t know that Bell would be the brightest spot of the next season, or that Giricek would turn out to be such a turnover prone, unproductive player.
The same situation was true for Williams and Arroyo. Arroyo had a fabulous 2003-2004 season and the Jazz were desperate for the next big point guard. They didn’t have any idea that Williams would turn out to be as productive, although, in the long run, Williams wouldn’t have been a huge difference maker for the Jazz. He’s very good, but not Deron Williams or Chris Paul good. We would have lost out on getting one of the next big point guards with Williams on the team.
And the fact that Harpring was our second best player, should show you why the Jazz had to go out and get some talent. We had just missed the playoffs the year before, with Kirilenko as our go to player, and we had overachieved big time. You can’t really argue with signing Boozer and Okur. We missed the playoffs and were considered one of the least talented teams in the league and 3 years later we were in the conference finals. It didn’t bring us a championship, like we hoped, but what the Jazz did in turning around their team that quickly is rare. I can’t think of another team, except for Boston last year, that improved so much so quickly.
I am with you on the Miles signing. I wasn’t a fan last year, although I don’t think his contract is killing us or anything. But that one was a bit of a head scratcher. I also think the Jazz expected to really compete for a title this year, so that being a luxury tax paying team would at least be an option. If we were close to going over the top, I think the Jazz would consider this year.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I CAN argue with the Boozer signing...I did at the time, and I still do.
The only way it made sense at the time was that he was a good young player who was willing to sign with the Jazz and the Jazz had the money to do it. But think about it…. all getting Okur, Boozer, and Williams has done during that time frame is turn us into a fringe playoff team to a playoff team that isn’t a contender. The Okur signing made all kinds of sense, and the Boozer signing would have made sense without the Okur signing, but together, no. Or maybe both if Kirilenko had not been resigned. But it was one giant contract to many.
Of course Bell hated the losing the next year and he did leave for a contender…. but that wasn’t just it. He didn’t feel he had gotten the respect he deserved …. and he was probably right. Even when they signed Giricek, why? Why pay that much for a backup to compete with Bell? Shooting guards are easy to draft, and draft picks have small contracts. Alot are good enough to play backup minutes
That is the morale here, going into this critical period. You can’t just sign players because they are good and you have the money to do so. You get to pay three players big money, three or four good money, and the rest low money. That’s it. Then you are at the luxury cap limit. You have to plan around that. What is a good contract for one team isn’t for another. It depends on your current personal.
Also
it seemed like j-slow & his system kept Bell from doing what he did best offensively… burying the trey. There were many times the Jazz needed treys, yet they’d run their offense, lose the game… and Bell was obviously frustrated that he wasn’t getting some more shots when the team really need a three-pointer.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
bell wasn't really a 3 point shooter when he arrived in utah
in his first three seasons, the most 3pa he ever had was 51 (granted part of that had to do with how many minutes he played). his first season in utah, his 3pa tripled from the previous season. also, that was the season (03-04) we were predicted to be the worst team in history and won 42.
I think his attempts
had more to do with the teams he played on. In Philly, he played alongside AI, and didn’t play all that much. In Utah, the system frowned up 3-point shooters. And then there was the whole keeping Giricek around thing that probably got to him as well. Philly gave him a shot to get out and shoot, and he jumped on it. (Plus, he was playing with a much better PG… Nash >>>> McLeod or Arroyo or whoever we had)
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
