Okur, 'Sap, Booze... Who You Got?
by UtesFan89 on Jun 27, 2009 8:59 PM MDT
26 comments
I'm not certain how relevant this will be a couple days from now. But I figure it's worth asking, just to see what the feeling is around here, if nothing else. As we stand right now, the Jazz have 7 guys under contract... assuming everyone that can opt out does... and another 2 waiting in the wings. A quick depth chart of the 9 guys...
- Deron Williams, Eric Maynor
- Ronnie Brewer
- C.J. Miles, Matt Harpring
- Andrei Kirilenko
- Kosta Koufos, Kyrylo Fesenko, (Goran Suton?)
There are obvious needs at the wings (Harpring is done, and the team doesn't have a shooter there), at power-forward (AK can't play all 48 minutes) and maybe at center (can The Koof, Fesenko and Suton hold down the fort?). Interior defense might be at a better position than where it was last year, but there is a ton of inexperience at the 2-3-4 spots. Which makes it obvious the Jazz are going to need to dip into FA.
So now, let's assume that 'Sap, Booze and Okur all opt out (I'm ignoring Korver in all of this, because truthfully, the other 3 guys play a much bigger role on the team). Given the needs, and the fact the Jazz probably don't want to go over the luxury tax (by way of "expiring contracts," the Jazz only have Harpring, Fesenko & Brewer... who'll be a RFA like 'Sap this season... assuming Okur, Booze & Korver all opt out), the Jazz aren't exactly overflowing in cash with which to fill needs. Assuming Suton sticks, the Jazz still need to find 4 more players to reach the NBA's required roster limit... I'm seeing 2 bigs, a wing and a PG (maybe 2 wings, depending on how ready Maynor is for the back-up spot). I'll go into contracts in another post if need be, but for now, let's just assume the Jazz are as cash strapped as it seems. So the Jazz get to FA, and can only afford one of their 3 guys ('Sap, Booze, Okur). Which one do you keep?
There are obviously pros & cons to all 3 guys.
Carlos Boozer (aka Booze)... Age: 27
Pros: The biggest offensive threat of the 3, especially down in the post. He's a 20-10 guy when healthy, and really fits well in Sloan's 'pick-and-roll' scheme. He's a good rebounder, and averages 1.0 spg & 2.5 apg, which aren't bad numbers for him. He also shoots 73% from the line for his career, which isn't bad for a big. And when he's on, he's able to draw double teams, leaving other guys open. Has a nice low-post game, but can also step out and drain the jumper.
Cons: He's not healthy all that often. He's played in 276 regular season games (of a possible 410) since joining the Jazz, including playing just 37 this season (after the previous 2 seasons were his best in 5 with the Jazz... playing 74 & 81 games). Defense is not a strength for him... bigs seems to have little trouble getting good position down low, and Booze doesn't exactly intimidate guards that drive in (unless his yelling surprises them). And for his career, he averages 0.4 blocks/game, which is just pathetic. He has disappeared when the Jazz have needed him most in the playoffs the last 2 seasons (despite the fact that his scoring numbers are higher in the playoffs).
Money & Competition: He wants money. A lot of it. Detroit was rumored to be interested, but the latest news is that they don't want to put so much of their cap space into 1 player. The rumblings coming out of New Jersey are the same. Miami had interest last year, but have since turned their attention to Chris Bosh. Oklahoma City & Memphis have cap space, but I'm not sure if they're interested. If Phoenix decides against rebuilding, they could take a run... provided they clear some cap space first.
Mehmet Okur (aka The Money Man)... Age: 30
Pros: One of the better shooting big-men in the league (he shot a career best 44.6% from beyond the arc this past season... 38% for his career). He's not quite a double-double threat, but he's averaged 16 ppg since arriving in Utah and has averaged 7.8 rpg in the same span. He shoots 80% from the FT line, and 46% from the floor (career best 48.5% this past season). He's played in at least 72 games every season since joining the Jazz, and at least 71 every season he's been in the league. He's been working (it seems) on developing a drive-to-the-hoop and low-post game, and it's nice to see him break it out occasionally when his shot isn't falling. He's hit a lot of big shots for the Jazz, becoming a fan favorite along the way. He could probably play 2 positions (PF, C) with his height (6'11), something that might be a bit harder for the Booze or 'Sap.
Cons: He's not your typical big man, which hurts when you're playing against guys like Yao Ming or Shaquille O'Neal or something. He averages 0.7 bpg which, while more than Booze, still isn't what you'd like from your center. He struggles blocking off the paint from the incoming pass and can get burnt inside as a result. He needs to work on passing the ball a bit more... there are times where he'll take a difficult shot despite being double teamed.
Money & Competition: Like Booze, he wants money. He has offered to give the Jazz a discount ($3-$5 million over the life of the contract), but the team and the player are far enough apart to make him opt out and see what's there for him on the market. As for competition... I'm not sure. If his demands are too high, teams will fall out. If not, Detroit could be interested in having him back. His ability to play the 4 and the 5 could interest some teams as well.
Paul Millsap (aka 'Sap)... Age: 24
Pros: The youngest of the 3 guys, he's still developing offensively. He's shown an ability to start, getting 38 starts this past season with Boozer out, and contribute. He averaged over 13 points/game, and also threw in almost 9 rebounds/game. He set career highs in almost every statistical category this season, and looks to be able to do it again if he gets a full-time starting job. He's active defensively, averaging 1 steal/game and 1 block/game. And he shot a blistering 53.4% from the floor this past season. His numbers in the playoffs also took a huge jump this season (up to 11 PPG and 8 RPG). He's been working on developing a low post game and a jumper, and both seem to be coming along well. He plays with a lot of energy, works hard, and has been a fan favorite pretty much since he showed up.
Cons: He tends to get into a lot of foul trouble, which brings to question whether or not he'll be able to give you starter minutes game-in/game-out. While his offensive game is still improving, it might not be to the point where you want it to be for a full time starter on a playoff team. His FT shooting is mediocre (sub-70%). His increase in minutes this past season saw a fairly big spike in turnovers/game as well (by 0.6 TO/game), which is never good for a guy that'll be facing double teams in the post. Not sure if it was after-effects of an injury, fatigue or just struggling to re-adapt after going back to the bench, but his game dropped off a bit after January this season, and fell a bit more when he went back to the bench upon Booze's return from the injured list. And that has to worry some teams... especially if it was the fatigue factor. On the other hand, his minutes increased by almost 600 from season 2 to season 3, so maybe it was to be expected.
Money & Competition: According to his agent, he's searching for David Lee type money (or more). Lee, also a RFA this season, is looking for about $10 million/season, so I guess that's what he means. As a plus for the Jazz, he is a RFA, so they can match any offer he gets. The price tag might scare some teams off, but his age could make him a better target for teams than Boozer, who is 3 years older than him, or Okur, who is 6 years older than him. Detroit is rumored to have him high on the list (though we've heard the same about Boozer, and there is no way they are targeting both guys). OKC makes some sense here, if they decide that Jeff Green is better suited coming off of the bench (unlikely, I must admit). Memphis made a play for Amar'e Stoudemire, and could turn to 'Sap to play alongside Hasheem Thabeet. New Jersey could be looking for a PF (after trading Ryan Anderson, all they have left is a disappointing Yi Jianlian and a disappointing Sean Williams). Phoenix might make some sense if they trade Amar'e, as they could use a big alongside whoever they get in return and in front of the Robin Lopez/Earl Clark duo.
All 3 guys have been huge for the Jazz. All 3 guys could be looking for big money this off-season (we know 'Sap is, we'll know about the other 2 soon)... money the Jazz don't have. Which puts the Jazz somewhere between a rock and a hard spot. Assuming they can only keep 1 of the 3 guys (and still have money to fill out the rest of the roster), what do they do? Do they go for upside ('Sap)? Do they go for the 20-10 threat when healthy (Booze)? Do they go for the unconventional big than can shoot (Okur)?
What do you think?
All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.
0 recs |
26 comments
Email
Print
Comments
i'm keeping memo
the jazz got absolutely nowhere in the playoffs with boozer playing like a beast (or at least getting beast-like stats) and memo on the injured list.
if we are really committed to developing kk2/fess, they need playing time. memo can slide over to the 4 at times, and ak can back him up.
by moni on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a tuff question
i am not sure who to go with.
as much as i dislike boozer’s work ethic, he gives you the low post presence that spreads the floor and allows memo to be memo and roam the 3 point line. boozer, when healthy, is a steady 20-10 guy. there are not many of those in the league. he has that left hand low post game that no one in the game can match. he has a reliable 15 footer.
millsap is a beast and a hustler, and you can’t teach that. all the great ones have that unteachable skill of wanting the ball more than others and millsap has that on the court. millsap is young and looks to be around for a long time. you see flashes of malone is some of his game. when a ball gets tipped is there anyone else you want going for the ball?
memo has been the most clutch player in a jazz uniform. we have seen it countless times where it’s about a minute left in the game and boozer comes and sets a high pick and roll. boozer rolls to the hoop and memo steps behind the line and williams flicks him a pass and memo hits the open 3 with his man running at him with a hand in the face. memo also carries a nose for the ball and has rebounding skills.
if i can only choose one… then i think i agree with moni about memo. he doesn’t win by much, but he has proven his worth to the team. his defense can be good when he tries at it (i’m not talking all-defensive team “good” just good). so far he is our most clutch player. he is our go-to guy when the game is on the line (besides d-will). i think i also have to go with memo. although calling him a center in the traditional sense is probably wrong, he is a center and we have lacked in that department since 53 hung ’em up.
by P_Dizzle on Jun 27, 2009 9:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
like you pointed out
i like the fact that memo has worked on his post moves.
another factor is defense. i think of the 3, sap gives the most effort on defense, while memo is willing to put in the work to improve. boozer, on the other hand, doesn’t feel that he needs to play defense. which makes this choice that much easier.
by moni on Jun 27, 2009 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okur is the easy pick
He’s our best deep threat, and one of the best stretches we’ve ever had was when Booze was down and Memo and new D-Will ran the high pick and pop so well it got Memo an invite to the All-Star game. Memo’s not going to get us to the finals alone, but he’s our “tough match-up guy” the same way Odom is for LA. We need our two big guns (D-Will and Booze/Bosh/Somebody) and then our tough match-up guy (Memo) and then good role players (AK, Kover/Miles, Brewer, Sap) and we’re good to go. So the big variable is really Booze or his replacement. But whoever that is, we will still need Memo no matter what.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Jun 27, 2009 9:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
The number one priority is Memo. Our wings can’t shoot from three and Memo showed he could play defense when up to it two years ago against Tim Duncan. If at all possible sign Millsap. I kinda’ wanted the Jazz to draft Blair from Pitt because we will be shallow at the 4 if we lose any one of Memo/Boozer/Millsap, let alone 2 or three of them. I just think that Okur is vital.
by Patrick517 on Jun 27, 2009 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I did a good job
(or at least an alright job) of keeping my biases out of this…
I agree with everyone that has commented… I’d go with Okur. (I’m hoping the people that voted for ’Sap/Booze will comment and explain why…).
As I see it, between those 3… Okur has the ability to play the 4 & the 5… huge when you consider that this team might not be able to get many more players. He’s one of the (if not the) best 3-point shooters on this team… something that is a huge need. Not only late in games when the Jazz need big shots from downtown (unlike Korver, he’s willing to shoot them), but also as spreading the floor and making things easier for the ‘cutters’ (Brewer, AK, Harpring, etc).
My second option would be ‘Sap… he’s not the offensive threat that Booze is, no. But he’s still young & developing. His defense is the best amongst the 3 big-men, and while you have to be worried about his foul trouble & stamina, you’d hope he’d improve on both as the seasons go on. He’s been working on his offensive game and I think it’s improved to the point that you can count on him in the post.
And at 3rd, I have Booze. Yes, he’s the best offensive option of the 3. But his lack of defense, combined with the many injuries, make him a real risk for the money he wants. It’s starting to look other teams might feel the same way… which could result in him not opting out this season and probably costing the Jazz one of the other 2 (if not both of them). In which case… we all better pray that he stays healthy for the entire season.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jun 28, 2009 8:17 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Paul "I put my hard hat on and go to work at the Millsap"
First and foremost he is youngest. That means a lot when you have a young franchise PG. He needs someone to grow with for the years to come. Second he plays with passion. I never see Okur or Boozer play that way for the whole game. Maybe if Boozer is working on his 10th rebound for his double double he may play hard. Third, the guy plays defense. Plain and simple. He has long arms to disrupt shots around the basket and he can knock the ball away for a steal. Fourth….he deserves to stay. He has worked his tail off to go from a 2nd round pick….to actually getting playing time….to actually being considered our future starting PF….
Reasons why I say no to Okur or Boozer….
Okur….well yes he can shoot the ball very well….but do we need our Center to be our best 3pt shooter….or do we need our Center to be in the paint banging bodies and blocking shots and pulling down boards. I want a hard nosed guy that is not afraid of contact and who will get in a guys face and slam his shot back down his throat….not a soft slow big who plays like he is a SG.
Boozer…do I really need to say anything about this guys work ethic. He comes to work not wearing a hard hat but a hat with a feather in it. He is very injury prone. He gets tore up by other scoring PF’s. Yes he is a beast on the boards….I do like that fact…but I would rather have Millsap and not have to deal with all the drama that is Boozer.
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
by Matt_Grbac on Jun 28, 2009 12:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lol at your feather comment
which might have inspired some photoshopping…
by moni on Jun 28, 2009 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Boozer went to town riding on a pony.....lol
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
by Matt_Grbac on Jun 28, 2009 9:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a side note...
I would not mind seeing the Jazz go after Matt Barnes. He can hit the 3 and play good defense. Nice role player off the bench. We need to restock our bench with veteran guys like the Lakers….they have Ariza and Odom on the bench…two guys that should start elsewhere….
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
by Matt_Grbac on Jun 28, 2009 1:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's funny becuase Matt Barnes seems like such a perfect role player and hustle and glue guy...
But when you look at the numbers, he has actually never helped his team be better. His plus minus numbers are always negative and he is very offensively inefficient. He only shot 34% from the three point line last season, but more troubling, only 41% from the field overall. Not good. But he plays hard and is long and matches up well with some other players. He sort of made a name for himself with his defense of Nowitzki a couple playoffs ago.
I like Barnes, and I like his game, but whatever team he joins next season, he isn’t going to make that team a lot better.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Jun 29, 2009 8:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Points
But I look at it this way. Would I rather have Korver coming in from the bench shooting 3’s and thats it….or would I rather have Barnes who is way more athletic and defensive inclined.
Barnes vs. Miles…..Barnes
Barnes vs. Korver….Barnes
Barnes vs. Harp…..Barnes over hurt Harp but a healthy Harp over all our bench guys.
We need to improve from our existing bench. Our front line with Koufos, Fesenko, and Suton would be WAY too young and inexperienced to do anything against the big West guys….Duncan, Gasol, Aldridge, West, etc. We need to do some shopping in FA for sure. I am talking 2-3 guys. Drew Gooden would be a great start. Matt Barnes would be nice. We need that veteran presence for playoff time.
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
by Matt_Grbac on Jun 29, 2009 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spend for Drew vs. Develop Fes?
Develop Fes.
I really think Fes and Koof are the answers to our inside problems, given who else is available. Drew’s serviceable, but he’s not going to fare well against Duncan or Gasol any more than Collins…why spend the money.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Jun 29, 2009 12:59 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Vote is close between Okur & 'Sap
anyone else wanna explain their thinking?
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jun 29, 2009 2:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I vote for Memo
Most of my reasons have already been mentioned. Memo’s older, and not entirely healthy. But his price will probably be more reasonable than matching whatever crazy amount some team offers for Millsap, relative to his value.
Like UtesFan said, he can play the 4 or 5, and putting him out there with another big body like The Koof or Fesenko will allow him to stay outside while the other guy stays in.
His 3-point shooting spreads the floor for the offense. The Jazz’s spacing is terrible when he’s not in there.
He’s clutch. He’s the one guy on the team we can usually count on for a big shot, other than Deron.
Boozer will want too much money, and his contributions are more easily replaceable. Same, I have to say, for Millsap. 20-and-10 guys may be rare, but 15-and-8 guys are less rare, and if we work on team depth, we can make do.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jun 29, 2009 4:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Booz is the best of the 3 and might not opt out forcing the issue. What if Jazz traded Millsap for Turk? D-Will, Brewer, Turk, Booz, Memo. I heard a rumors mill S/T on this.
by derekk on Jun 29, 2009 4:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see them
trade Boozer (with Miles?) to any team willing to give up a legit 3-point threat.
Start D-Will, Ronnie (either one), new guy, ’Sap, Okur
AK off the Bench at 3 and 4, Memo can play some 4 so that Koufas and Fes get some time,
by EternalLoser on Jun 29, 2009 8:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
interesting
earlier today, the vote was dead even, but now Millsap has pulled ahead. The lurkers are pulling for Paulie, looks like. Come state your reasoning, lurkers.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jun 29, 2009 11:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
this goes for you few boozer lurkers as well.
matt_grbac is the only sap/boozer person that has posted a reason so far.
by moni on Jun 30, 2009 1:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will confess to having voted for Millsap
Mostly for the reasons Matt_Grbac laid out…he’s the youngest, the hardest-working (at least during games), and plays the most defense. Plus, in my opinion, he’s got the most upside of the three. We’ve basically seen what Boozer can do (he’s a special offensive player and good rebounder, but disappears in many big games, struggles against long defenders, gets injured WAY too frequently, and has shown no interest in improving his defense) and what Okur can do (he’s versatile, stretches the floor, and hits big threes, but half the time he looks like he just woke up—and plays like it too—isn’t a stellar defender, and doesn’t seem capable of playing the traditional center’s role of a banger on offense and defense), whereas who knows what Millsap is capable of. I mean, before this season, who among us honestly suspected that he had the offensive ability that he showed? If he developed that much in just one season where he played starter’s minutes, how good could he be if we made him our franchise PF for multiple years? So I’ll take Millsap, with Okur second, and Boozer third.
by shandonfan on Jun 30, 2009 1:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
makes sense
thanks a lot for the explanation. And you have a point, both Boozer and Okur have reached their respective ceilings, while it’s anyone’s guess what Millsap will end up being. He may even go the opposite way, and crumble under the weight of a full-time starting role where he has to provide scoring, rebounding and defense (although at least in OKC, he would have plenty of scoring help, though not in the post).
I dunno. It’s a crap shoot regardless. But you made your points well.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
by Shums on Jun 30, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
There should be an "Other (comment below)" option in your post.
No team is limited to only the guys you had last year. There is cheaper talent out there, IMO.
But I voted Millsap
Greg Oden - The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 6, 2009 11:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but I figured at least one of the guys would be back.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 7, 2009 6:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And your probably right, I just thought it would
strike up more conversation for your post.
Greg Oden - The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 7, 2009 11:46 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably would have
I’ll have to remember that next season. :)
That said, CV31 is gone (and was gone early), Gortat is probably gone.
Big Baby… no thanks.
Brandon Bass… maybe.
No real targets out there…
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 7, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if you're bored with SLC Dunk
because of lack of activity or conversation. Come over to BlazersEdge. There is plenty of traffic and posts over there… enough to keep you talking basketball all day.
Greg Oden - The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 7, 2009 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
