Rumbles of Thunder? Don't Believe the Hype
I’m happy that the NBA continues to grow its’ brand and attract new fans. It’s important for the league. The strides the league has made over time is very commendable and we fans are better off for it. At the risk of dating myself, games were broadcast on tape delay depending on where in the US you lived, when I fell in love with the game. Today I can program my DVR to record anything I want from my cell phone. With a 24 hour news cycle, one where we can hear Rick Kamla yell at the camera 12 different times a day, things happen much quicker than they ever did before. We get scores faster. We see highlights faster. We even see funny post game interviews faster. The flip side is that some of the bad parts of the game happen quicker as well. Today, with all the countless resources available (TV, Radio, Internet, Blogs, Players own tweets, etc) even hype comes at you at light speed.
Today we live in an age where a team that has won 2 playoff games the previous season is projected to be a Top 3 team in the Western Conference. They didn’t sign any significant new free agents over the summer. They didn’t make any crazy trades. They just got one year older. The hype (or is it hope?) surrounding the Oklahoma City Thunder has reached critical mass with this NBA fan. So much so that I had to write about it. I’ve seen teams hyped up before. I’m going to talk about them here, and speculate on why we should be wary of falling too in love with this Thunder squad. I’m not going to pull any punches either. But before we start let’s get all the criticism out of the way:
- You’re a bitter fan
- You’re jealous
- You’re scared
- You’re a hater
- Your team sucks
- Karl Malone is a thug
- What are you, a Mormon? ...because apparently I can't like the Jazz and be something else...
Are we done now? Okay. Now that you’ve had your say (or what I presume you at least feel right now), indulge me by actually reading my criticism below.
Defining Hype:
Some teams get attention, or have coverage that they earn. If you win a lot of games, you deserve it. It’s not hype by my definition. If you are a historic franchise that has many titles, you deserve it. It’s not hype. If you do something crazy, and people write and talk about it, it’s somewhat justified. Hype, to me, is undeserved attention, praise, and coverage. I hate hype. I hate it especially because deserving squads get overlooked because of these flavors of the month that pop up.
I’ve had to wait till the end of a program to even get a final score to a game I cared about because the TV station wanted to give me an in depth look at Derrick Coleman’s New Jersey Nets. Has that guy ever done anything in this league? Nope. But his team was hyped up and we all had to suffer for it. I hate the Nets franchise so much I am not even going to use them as an in-depth example in this post.
Some of the teams that were most hyped over the past few years shared some common qualities. The first is that for a team to get undeserved attention, it usually comes from a very rich history of sucking. It’s not news if the Spurs win 50 games because they always do. Most teams that get hyped up are sorry franchises.
The second quality of a hyped up team is a direct product of the first quality. The team sucks so bad for so many years that it just ends up with a lot of high draft picks. Unless you actively try to be bad, like the Clippers, you are bound to at least have a bounce back season here or there based on talent alone.
The third quality is one where a new coach (or one that’s bounced around a lot) happens to have the good luck to coach this team bursting with 1st round draft picks and they end up winning a number of games. Many times you can get a Coach of the Year trophy out of it. A number of undeservingly (is this even a word?) hyped teams propped up a Coach of the Year during their ‘hyped era’.
Fourth, we have a very rapid jump in popularity. Obviously if the team is winning (finally) all the "die hard fans" will crawl out of the wood work and support the team. By winning and having all this young talent (from high draft picks) the media will start boasting about their vast potential. People will write about them. They’ll be on TV. Fans will go to their games. Everyone will love them. (Even though 2-3 years ago no one did except locals)
The fifth, and most important aspect of hype, is that the team does not justify any of this attention with wins or playoff success. They may show a great improvement in stringing together 3 good regular seasons in 5 years – but there is no sustained growth at all. They are still bad franchises that got hyped up because they were so bad for so long they stumbled their way to good players on their rookie contracts.
It’s absolutely repugnant to lavish praise on these teams, unless you really love them. Jumping on a band wagon just because they’re doing well ‘now’ is pathetic. We don’t do this with nations, right? No one is saying "Holy cow, Pakistan has cruise missiles now, I’m going to root for them!" Why is this okay with sports? It shouldn’t be.
As Public Enemy said it, "Don’t believe the Hype."
Examples of Hype:
There are common qualities, as you just read. And we see this over and over again with the types of teams that the NBA shoves down our throats. Let’s look at them, and see if we can identify any trends.
Golden State Warriors: Post RUN-TMC [1991-1996]
This is a classic example because I will never forget being forced to watch their buffoonery on NBC as they’d lose a game to the Cleveland Cavaliers in Oakland. The image shows all the important information. They had a very rich heritage in sucking the previous 5 seasons before this hyped up era began. They had a stable of high draft picks on the team, with an average draft position of their "best" players being an 18th pick. (Seven top 10 picks) They were flashy, and stylish, and they held it together to win enough games to have Don Nelson win ANOTHER Coach of the Year Trophy. (For those keeping score at home, he has one for each time he’s quit on a team during the season) Despite their genius coach and massive hype they managed to win 1 entire playoff game in five years. I am sickened by all the praise they were given though.
Sacramento Kings: Webber and Vlade era [1998-2004]
Do you remember how exciting this team was, with their rookie point guard White Chocolate? They were on TV all the time. Their bigs passed behind their backs. Their guards shot threes whenever they wanted. They were the new hotness. They also exhibited some of the classic signs of an over-hyped team. This era emerged after the previous five seasons had them winning only 40.73% of the time. Ten of their top thirteen players during this era were picked in the first two thirds of the first round. (Average draft position of 13.92 – that’s all lotto picks, on average) Rick Adelman was their coach, but he’s a good coach – not a charlatan like Don Nelson. He didn’t win the CoY award, mainly because this team got better more organically than some other teams I’ll mention did. (It didn’t happen over the course of 2 NBA Drafts) Still, their popularity went off the charts and they were really hyped up. Unlike a lot of these teams, though, this was a very solid era for the Kings. They won nearly 20 more games a season during this period of time and got to the West Finals once. (They were really close a number of other times as well) I’m not going to fault them for not being able to beat the Shaq Diesel Lakers. I have much less disdain for this franchise than I do the Golden State Warriors. They did, though, satisfy three of the five key signs of being an undeserving of being hyped up team.
Denver Nuggets: Allen Iverson teams up with Carmelo Anthony for the win [2006-2008*]
Iverson was traded during the season in 2006-2007 and played 50 games for the Nuggets in the regular season. This was a marketing bonanza. Everyone loved this. Melo and AI were on so many magazine covers, and had so much ink written about them (almost as much as they had injected into them). AI actually played 3 games in the 2008-2009 regular season for the Nuggets. But he was traded to the Pistons, and the Nuggets actually got better. I’m not including any of that last season in this discussion though. AI and Melo were the story, but did you look at all the high draft picks they had on this team? Five top 3 picks! Seven top 10! They sold so many jerseys that the TV Big Money boys couldn’t keep them off the nationally televised games even if they wanted to. Alas, it was too perfect to really exist. They won one whole playoff game during this era. I’m really surprised that all the hype didn’t make them a better team. I was almost convinced they were with all the love they got from ESPN . . . maybe hyped up teams are actually flawed?
What? The Golden State Warriors again? [2006-2008]
Remember how frequently we were told that the Oracle was loud? [We know this to be a lie, now] Or how many times we saw Baron Davis dunk on a white guy in an oft-reused highlight? Or how great their team chemistry was? Or that their Coach had three CoY trophies? Wait, who was it? Don Nelson? Again? Who keeps hiring him after he quits teams in the middle of the season? Anyway, this team of mercenaries came on strong (and out of nowhere) to make the playoffs and defeat the Mavs. They left as quickly as they came. With no tradition of winning, or larger game plan the team went back to its’ 30-win strategy a few months after that awesome Baron Davis dunk. Wow. That was so great. Who cares about success when you have hype!
Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron’s ascendance [2005-2010]
I don’t want to bag on the Cavs fans, so I’m not going to say anything snarky here. (Just like the same principle that prevents me from including the New Orleans Hornets in this post on hype…) Even legit attention can turn into hype with the right player on your team. LeBron is a great player. He took a really bad franchise to 42 playoff wins over 5 seasons. Yes, they exhibited all the classic signs for being hyped up – their "coach" even won CoY, but they were very good in this era. Yet, the era ended, and who knows how thick the slices of bread will be in this fail sandwich? Years of mediocrity gave them LeBron, and now that he’s gone, years of mediocrity seems to be in the future for this team. [The Bread = bad seasons, the meat is this 5 year stretch of doing well in this sandwich – I feel stupid for having to point this out here.]
Portland Trailblazers: Post-Jailblazers [2006-2010]
I’d say 2006-present day but all the hype that surrounded this team (and it was significant, it had to be to get Hollinger and Stein to agree with the Basketball Jones) has migrated to the Thunder. It’s sad that the bandwagon emptied so quickly. They had so much going for them, all the years of bad teams, a bazillion high draft picks (average draft position of 9.85!!!!!), Greg Oden, Greg Oden’s dong, Brandon Roy, a guy named LaMarcus who doesn’t rebound. It’s hard to see how this group could possibly fail – they even have an owner who went out and bribed the Western Conference coaches that one year by sending them all expensive electronics (iPods w/ Roy highlights on them). Remember that? If Mark Cuban did that he’d be fined – but because it was Portland, everyone was cool with it. In four seasons they have four playoff wins. Jeez. I thought they’d be better. And now the love is gone. People still like the team . . . but they aren’t in love with them anymore. You know, because someone hotter and slightly younger came on the scene . . .
Do these trends appear to have anything in common with the Oklahoma City Thunder?
Years of sucking? Collecting 1st round draft picks? Talent puts it together to carry coach to CoY award? Crazy hype? Survey says yes. This team won 2 games in the playoffs. This year they are expected to challenge the Lakers for the top spot in the west. You know what, the Utah Jazz won 2 games vs. the Lakers the first time they played in the playoffs too three seasons ago. How did that work out for the Jazz? Yeah. What is actually worse for the Thunder, though, is that they aren’t the Jazz. They don’t have a history of winning, and they only got all this hype because they sucked so hard they have five top 5 picks on the team, and eight Top 10 picks. Oh, what’s that? Salary cap? What does the salary cap have to do with anything . . . oh holy mother in Heaven . . . most of these young guys are still on their rookie contracts, which end around the same time as their veteran contracts! There’s no long term growth here, it’s just people banking on other players wanting to take less money to play in Denver Cleveland Oklahoma City. Who could say no to wanting to play with Melo LeBron Kevin Durant. Young stars on crappy teams ALWAYS have the support of their front offices to get the players to make a dynasty outside of kids on their rookie contracts. Right? This is especially true for small market teams, right Chris Paul?
Damn you Amar! You’re a bitter fan! You’re jealous! No, no, you’re scared of the Thunder! And you’re a hater! Also your team sucks!! Karl Malone is a thug! C’mon, what are you, a Mormon?
Harsh reality aside, this team is a fun team. They have a lovable cast of characters. They’re going to win some games. I just don’t think that they’re projecting to be a dynasty with all of these common qualities with over-hyped teams of the recent NBA’s past. How good is this team going to be in 4-5 years? (All the other teams, except the really bad ones I listed, had eras lasting 5-6 seasons . . . how many of these guys are going to stick around through all of it?) It remains to be seen how good this team will be, but they have all the potential in the world.
You know all about potential, right? The post-RUN TMC Warriors had loads . . . or AI’s Nuggets . . . or the Dubs . . . or Webber’s Kings . . . or like LeBron in Cleveland, and so on. Think upon this before signing your life savings into the ‘savior’ of the NBA Kevin Durant. Remember we used to think that Kobe, LeBron, and Bosh had no faults when they were young too!
Hope and optimism elevate the Thunder to adoration they have yet to deserve. In my language, this is hype. What’s that Chuck D?
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Comments
Let's start things going here . . .
Here’s an example of a “real” / non-Flash in the pan team that builds itself through “not sucking” . . .
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 2:01 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank You!
I know I’ve been nagging you about his post. I must say you did not disappoint. I love to see in numbers what I know in my heart to be true. I couldn’t stand the Warriors then. I had no idea they never won a playoff series. I just remember how Timmy Hardaway was like the best PG ever! I must admit I kind of liked watching the KIngs. I didn’t like that they beat the Jazz but I loved how hard they took it to the Lakers.
AI and Melo were going to the best duo ever in the history of the NBA! I remember I was in Miami when that trade went down. I was in shock. I had to call my husband and let out all my grief concerning it. I thought what the crud how did they do that? I was worried about our Jazz but alas it was all hype and was easy to see that after a bit.
The Blazers, Brandon Roy used to be the favorite of the media until Mr Kevin Durant came on the scene. I think the world would have imploded if the Blazers would have drafted Durant imagine two such lovable media favorites on the same team. Remember a few seasons back when the Blazers had our number, we were struggling and we had to play them like 3 times in a week span. The Blazers were on that 14 game winning streak or something like that that we eventually broke (that was the best) David Locke said that Portland would be the best in the West for years to come. I remember yelling at my radio saying no its just a hot streak you’ll see. Now the Blazers have maintained success but they didn’t make the playoffs that year and haven’t done much int he playoffs since like you pointed out, so well I guess Locke was wrong.
I like the players on OKC. I just can’t stand the hype. How in the heck is a team that was 8th last year all of the sudden be the favorite to be 2nd in the West. Last year they had a perfect season as possible. I think they’ll be good for as long as they have Durant but like you pointed out what happens when all the rookie contracts are up? I love how they have so many top 10 picks and we have Deron yet we had the better record and will see the consistant success.
thanks for posting the Jazz’s non hype chart. I was going to ask for one before I saw your comment.
Go Jazz! Down with the Hype!!
by dianaallen on Oct 21, 2010 2:40 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
thanks for this
and I dont find it nagging. I was really down about my computer dying and having to redo all this info, but your support made it happen. I forgot to dedicate this post to you — you’re a great fan. I wish I had your ability to see things without having to break it down in excel, ha ha.
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions
We know why
OKC is hyped because they were the 8th seed last year that seemed to find their groove at the end of the year (remember the classic overtime home game vs OKC in April). They gave the Lakers a serious run in the playoffs and didn’t look intimidated at all. If Durant hadn’t shot 20% in Game 6, who knows what would have happened in Game 7?
Drop on top of those expectations the coming of age we witnessed for Durant in the FIBA World Championships and you’ve got a juggernaut candidate for hype of the year.
ha ha ha
I read it in the voice of your avatar
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions
You have to be a Mormon to be a Jazz fan?
Consider me converted – send the missionaries to me – ASAP!
used to house train dogs?
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I love the bandwagon picture
but I need a breakdown of what the guy standing next to the wagon with the cane represents ;)
In all seriousness, that’s a pretty awesome post (rec’d). I think proving something we all feel to be true with stats is pure awesome. I think it is now safe to say that Coach of the Year is directly related to hype…
Perhaps a related future analysis could show the relationship between All-Star team selections and hype. An unrelated future analysis could show the relationship between College Football polls and hype. Yeah, I went there.
Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it.
-Unknown
David Stern, naturally . . .
. . . who else directs the band wagons from behind the scenes?
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 4:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Eh,
say what you will about the Thunder but they could be dang good for a while if things roll right for them. I think they could challenge the Lakers this year, maybe not for best record, but in the playoff. I love their team. It’s hard to say that too because of how much a Jazz fan I am but that team is sweet. Sometimes Hype is deserved. I think they deserve some. Especially since they are a small market team.
Also, I loved that Kings team. Bibby, Jackson, Stoki, Hedo, Webber, Vlade. That team had the making to be alot better than they ended up being.
Anyways, I digress.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
they can be very good
they also have a really good chance of not being relevant in a season or two.
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions
also
the point is that they don’t deserve the hype they are getting right now. if they win 60 games a year the next two season what hype they get will be accurate to their performance. right now, it’s a little too soon. mark hamill looked great in star wars, but he didn’t become no al pacino . . .
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Why not?
Durant is other worldly and they have a core of young good players with a somewhat decent young coach. Their series with the Lakers easily could have fallen in their favor if they had gotten a couple of breaks.
That’s what sports is, the rise and fall of empires. Any team can become irrelevant. All it takes is an injury, a bad trade, a free agent leaving.
I for one like seeing a small market team get hype. The Jazz sure as hell never do.
Hamill looked great in Starwars but didn’t make it, on the otherhand, Harrison Ford exploded out of it.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
by ForTheLove on Oct 21, 2010 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Points
I think we all saw w/ Lebron that one player doesn’t make a team. Durant should be awesome this year, but I do wonder how his transition into a superstar mentality will impact the team. The Thunder seemed to do well with a fairly balanced team concept, which was the glaring deficiency of all of those super hyped Lebron Cavs teams.
Nice retort w/ Hamill/Ford. Very clever. Does that mean Jeff Green or Russell Westbrook or someone will be the superstar in 5 years?
Personally,
I think the talent around Durant is better than what was around Lebron in the beginning. Gradually the team added more and the team started to gel. I think Durant is a different player though. Durant will stick with OKC. He doesn’t have the ego LBJ or Kobe have. At least right now.
What made the Jazz relevent 20 + years ago? A couple of superstars who stuck around with their team and a new coach with a fire in his belly. Durant and Westbrook could be a duo in 5 years that we are still talking about. Maybe they have alot of turnover after their rookie contracts. The Jazz know first hand that if you keep 2-3 players around it makes the difference. I for one am pulling for the Thunder to be good. Cause if they are good, it’ll make the Jazz better.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
That only furthers the point
So what if they go on and don’t do anything else good.
When they are all together they make one hell of a triology. So while they are together, why not enjoy em? Instead of worrying if they’ll go on and do great things?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I wasn't putting them down
I just thought clearly Durant would be Ford and there can only be one Han Solo :)
I like their team there players are nice etc. Its the hype that bugs me.
I guess I don't understand that.
If you geniunely like the team and the players, why wouldn’t you want them to get hype?
I would love it if the Jazz got an ounce of respect for what they’ve accomplished over the greater part of 2 decades. They don’t though. At least not in comparision with the Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, etc.
I’ts just nice to see a small market team get some credit for a great season. Sure they may not make a dynasty, but maybe they can?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I do like them that doesn't mean they are not hyped.
I like them but that doesn’t mean they are not hyped. They have yet to have a significant injury. We were short two starters when we played the Lakers how would they have played if they were missing two of there starters against the Lakers?
by Evans Almighty on Oct 21, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
It is my solemn duty as a huge freaking nerd to stand up for Mark Hamill.
He has had a lucrative and fruitful career as a voice actor for animation and video games, including the iconic role of the Joker in Batman: The Animated Series.
That’s right. Luke Skywalker = the Clown Prince of Crime.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
This made me laugh
I do have to say, I greatly underestimated your nerdiness.
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
I remember him from wing commander . . .
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 22, 2010 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Heart of the Tiger, baby.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
I would rather the Thunder win the next 10 NBA titles
than see either the Heat or the Lakers win another one. I’m just saying.
by tyrantking on Oct 21, 2010 4:05 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely.
This also could have been an example of throwing the cookies out. I donāt know about you, but sometimes when Iām trying to drop some weight and I have some cookies in the cupboard that I DO but DONāT want to eat, Iāll try giving them away and short of that, just throw them out. I figure, better to waste a little money than to have something around that is just going to get me in trouble knowing its in my cupboard.
-Rumblings user FrankL; on the releasing of Trent Edwards
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
Good read
I think the thunder deserve all the hype they are getting. With Durantula (best player in the league) they are going to be scary as long as hes there.
The kings team should of won the finals the time they were hyped up too bad the refs took it from them.
by EcERyda69 on Oct 21, 2010 4:18 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
The Days of Donaghy
Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?
I'm not seeing all of the hype.
The Lakers are still the favorites and the Thunder really came together the second half of last season. They looked primed to be a great team. I am actually surprised the Jazz are getting some hype considering the roster turnover. I think we should be happy with the way the Jazz are being viewed and should be happy for the Thunder (a franchise I despise after being a Sonics fan).
I've been saying all year
that while Durant is great, the Thunder rely too much on him. The whole thing looks eerily like the situation with the Hornets these last few years. Chris Paul was incredible, the Hornets took the NBA by storm, they won and competed with the best teams in the league for a couple of years (Byron Scott won a coty award with them I believe – and was promptly fired for not being able to replicate that performance), and then everything fell apart. Even before Chris Paul’s injury, things fell apart. The team was relying too heavily on Chris Paul. Did they have other guys? Sure. I would have taken David West over Carlos Boozer any day. But too much of the teams success was based on one guy. Now a few years later, they just keep looking like a team that could maybe do something, but then they never really do. I see them as a long shot to make the playoffs this year. Chris Paul hates the team, and everything is just a shambles.
This is what I see when I look at Oklahoma right now. I’m not saying I hope they fail. I like Chris Paul. The Hornets are my 3rd favorite team. I’m rooting for them, except for when they play the Jazz. I like the Thunder. I hope they do well. But the success of a team is based 1st and foremost on ownership – as Mark Cuban has showed us – and I have yet to see any indication that the Thunder ownership has done anything here other than get a lucky player out of the draft.
Just like New Orleans, just like Cleveland, just like the Clippers, just like the Clippers, just like the Clippers, just like the Clippers, and just like the Clippers. (Yeah, this cycle has been repeating with the Clips for as long as I can remember – go Blake Griffin!)
I think
New Orleans would be a good example of the Thunder, if they had remained healthy. They’ve had alot of bad luck injury wise and some poor managment skills. Paul, West, Peja, and Chandler were/have been torn up by injuries.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
True
But I think that the Thunder have been largely untouched by injuries. Remember when the Jazz were the picture of health a few years back, and then the injury bug hit? I can’t help but think that OKC will fall back to normality with a few injuries this year.
by BigIslandBound on Oct 21, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
And by "normality"
I’m talking about the rate of injury on the team. I still think that they will be good.
by BigIslandBound on Oct 21, 2010 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions
The one element you left out of your article about hyped teams is favorable (“star”) treatment by the referees of hyped teams, making such teams 5-10 points better a game against certain other teams.
It urks me to no end that the Lakers, who are supposed to be the best team in the NBA, get “star treatment” by the referees, which can benefit them between 5-10 points per game, every time they play the Utah Jazz. Accordingly, to beat the Lakers the Jazz actually have to be 6-11 points better than the Lakers, rather than merely 2-3 points better, especially when the Jazz play in LA.
I noticed this same phenomenon last year with the OKC Thunder near the end of the season. However, with the Thunder, the phenomenon extended to players other than OKC’s recognized superstar, Kevin Durant. For example, Russell Westbrook was also getting “star treatment” calls usually reserved for someone like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James or Duane Wade. And, now because of the hype, a lot of media people are actually declaring that Russell Westbrook is a “superstar” as well, although he has not yet been required to meet the criteria of being a superstar (don’t get me wrong, I think Russell Westbrook is a very good young player, but he has not yet proven that he is a superstar). Both Deron Williams and Al Jefferson are better players than Russell Westbrook, but he is getting “superstar” treatment from the referees, and they are not. Even some of OKC’s other, lesser players were getting superstar treatment by the referees in games near the end of last year.
Finally, I cannot recall that the NBA has ever issued an official statement that they “missed” a call that decided a game, other than when they made the declaration last year about the overtime game between OKC and the Jazz. At the same time, they didn’t bother to declare that the referees missed about a dozen other calls near the end of that game that went against the Jazz, which would have made the game not even close at the end.
by Fesenko for President on Oct 21, 2010 5:08 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
this is a grea point
and another reason why we should be UPSET with hype, because it makes the refs cheat for the other team.
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by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 22, 2010 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
yes
I understand that CJ fouled Durant but those type of fouls at the end of the game get ignored right or wrong all the time.
I was so appauled that the league actually apologized to its fans for not making the all. Where was the apology to the Jazz for the messed up calls that made the game close? Where was the apology to Millsap in the previous game against the Thunder that cost us the game and where was the apology when MJ pushed off.
I agree hype does influence the refs. It ruins the flow of the game. It ruins the outcomes of some games. I hate watching games in LA just because of it.
by dianaallen on Oct 22, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hype kills teams
All this hype will only be a detriment to the Thunder. They played well last year because they had the underdog mentality. The hype will be a Madden curse for the Thunder. It’s going to put pressure on the team to live up to expectations and that’s only going to unravel a young team like the Thunder.
Ah
But you are discounting the new Jedi mind skills that Durant developed over the summer playing for Team USA. I think he’s enough to keep the team together.
but what about DWill
DWill wasn’t enough after the run the Jazz had to the WCF
every team will face challenges.
think Durant is great but one player who is strong isn’t enough.
Again I think they’ll be a good team but I’m not ready to anoint them 2nd seed yet.
I love Kevin Durant
and the Thunder. They’re an interesting team. The youth movement, I would like to think of them. They’re full of energy and they believe in themselves and in each other. They have good spirit and needless to say their team chemistry is excellent. They never quit. A very feisty energetic young team. Fun to watch.
They just lack a good solid big man. And without a good big, guys like Gasol will out rebound the team like crazy. The reason the Thunder could push the Lakers was largely due to nobody being able to guard Westbrook on the Lakers end.
In my opinion, the Thunder is more like the 5th or 6th seed.
well . ..
is Durant > Chris Mullen and Tim Hardaway?
is Durant > Vlade and Webber?
is Durant > Melo and AI (maybe)
is Durant > the Dubs?
is Durant > LeBron?
The point isn’t that ONE guy can keep a team together and make them a champion. The point is that this type of “team development” is completely unsustainable.
Suck forever so you are in the lotto every year, fine, it happens. Then use lotto picks to get good young guys – sure, this makes sense. Then those guys are good, and play together and you win games. Everyone is happy.
Then their rookie contracts run out. Look at Shareef / Bibby / Dickerson and crew who were the core for the Vancouver Grizz. That team looks A LOT LIKE THE THUNDER. Young guys, having fun, winning games . . . (not against Utah) . . . but their contracts went up. Some guys got paid, some guys stayed with the team.
I’ve pointed out historical NBA evidence that suggests that sucking as a way to get better in the long term doesn’t work out. Even in the case of a once in a generation talent – like a LeBron – it doesn’t work. Don’t like LeBron, look at how the Lakers have dealt with Kobe? If they ’Thundered" it then Kobe would be alone and not have good guys next to him.
Having a group of young guys play well after your franchise sucks gets you some wins and playoff appearances. Look at the Vin Baker / Todd Day / Glenn Robinson / Ray Allen Milwaukee Bucks. They had a lot of young talent, stockpiled from consecutive drafts. What happened? How many rings did they get?
Impossible to sustain growth through hope of continually replenishing talent with guys on their rookie contracts.
It’s really stupid to think that’s how you win.
It’s also pretty daft to think that the Thunder will be the first team ever to do it. I’ve shown 6 or 7 examples in the post, and 2 more in this comment. What makes the thunder so special? That Durant poops baby unicorns?
Hogwash.
They can be a good team, and win the division, and may even win 9 playoff games in the same playoffs like we did with a young Deron Williams. Thinking that it’s going to last forever – esp when all those consecutive rookie contracts all start to expire (and because the team is winning 50 a year, there are no more lotto picks) – is abject optimism.
The Thunder will rise and fall within this decade. We’ll still be in the playoff race every year. End of story.
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 21, 2010 5:51 PM MDT reply actions 4 recs
This is the best statistical contrivation ever, haha
and i think of the points you make the one that will hurt the thunder the most is the situation with their coach, thunder are trying to copy jazz, but one huge difference is sloan has, had, will have street cred, also, did anyone notice how it was preceeding the trade of meynor the thunder suddenly improved? If that’s where that got their juice from???HAHA…Don’t believe thehype!!!
They just barely started getting the hype?
Who is to say they only keep building through the draft? They could make trades, they could pick up FA’s. Your point I thought was that all their contracts expire and that would keep them from being a dynasty. In 2-3 years that could easily change. They could land an amazing rookie in the draft or an undrafted one, they could trade alot of their youth for veteran players, hell they could all get injured.
Durant does poop baby unicorns and easily is a top 5 talent in the NBA. Westbrook is a pretty dang good PG, and they have a good supporting cast/bench.
They have ALOT going for them. They might not be right for saying they’ll create a dynasty, but I don’t think you’re necessarily right for saying they won’t either.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
and this point was made
but unless you like tipping cows, what does oklahoma have to offer for lifestyle?? making them one of the least desirable markets to live in…
sometimes winning
is enough to change that.
Isn’t that what we’re hoping happens with D-Will? That winning means enough to keep him on a small market team? Why can’t OKC do the same thing?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
just winning isn't enough
to change that, thats what i see with okc, and i hate their hype because as it was mentioned it results in points on the scoreboard, and this favoritism shown by refs seems unavoidable, for they are merely human, i feel if you are the champion in the good name of zeus then by all means convention dictates some favoritism, but for the thunder???
Is all this hype really that bad?
The NBA/Media always want to have their darlings, and I am confident that in a 7 game series our beloved Jazz finish on top of most teams in the Association. Love the post though, thanks for the effort you put into these Amar.
by murderousmalone on Oct 21, 2010 7:37 PM MDT reply actions
I couldn't agree more Amar
Utah is the best organization in the association period. The fact that we have stayed relevant for so long is amazing. We don’t attract huge key name free agents like Boston, LA or Miami because frankly this team is in Utah and a lot of players still wouldn’t want to play here. (I know this is changing more in recent years, but you don’t hear players wanting to be traded to UTAH to play for SLC bright lights and Utah’s teeming night life. At the same time we have never been awful enough to stock pile draft picks like Portland or the thunder. KOC and his crew deserve more credit than they get nationally.
by Evans Almighty on Oct 21, 2010 7:46 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Wow
I’m just stunned by how much passion and hatred you have for this concept of hype. It’s one thing to say that teams are hyped up and not understand it, but to actively hate this with as much vitriol as you have seems. . .awkward and hot-tempered, at the very least. It’s definitely provocative. I’m a Jazz fan with you, and I don’t like hype, but can’t we just shrug and say “ah, it’s just the hype” instead of becoming incensed about it? I feel like that is much healthier. If I walked around with that much frustration and anger over any topic at all, I’d be afraid I’d have health issues.
This also could have been an example of throwing the cookies out. I donāt know about you, but sometimes when Iām trying to drop some weight and I have some cookies in the cupboard that I DO but DONāT want to eat, Iāll try giving them away and short of that, just throw them out. I figure, better to waste a little money than to have something around that is just going to get me in trouble knowing its in my cupboard.
-Rumblings user FrankL; on the releasing of Trent Edwards
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
I don't hate hype I am just sick of it
I actually like OKC and Durantula but i don’t want to hear about them all the time. Another negative thing about hype is that when we the Jazz (a never hyped team) beat lets say OKC (and we will beat them at least a couple of times) the story after the game is how bad OKC played and how they let us win. I do hate that. Besides we are fans we are passionate thats what we do. I personally enjoy a little national attention too. So maybe I am just jealous. But at the same time i love being the dark horse and under dog – I am so conflicted.
by Evans Almighty on Oct 21, 2010 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions
But that's just going to happen.
The media is going to say things that aren’t true. They’re going to make stories up that overshoot one issue and undershoot another. It happens a lot for other teams, yes, but it happens for us too sometimes. It is not like we are being kept down from actually winning a single game by any of this hype. It’s just what the talking heads want to talk about. It seems very silly to want to try to control the talking heads. Can’t we just let the water roll over our backs on this one instead of feeding a festering anger?
This also could have been an example of throwing the cookies out. I donāt know about you, but sometimes when Iām trying to drop some weight and I have some cookies in the cupboard that I DO but DONāT want to eat, Iāll try giving them away and short of that, just throw them out. I figure, better to waste a little money than to have something around that is just going to get me in trouble knowing its in my cupboard.
-Rumblings user FrankL; on the releasing of Trent Edwards
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
Fantastic breakdown Amar, rec rec! If anything it makes me even more appreciative of the Jazz organization. Honestly this is probably the biggest reason it’s great to be a Jazz fan. Oh, and that line about rooting for pakistan because they had me laughing pretty good.
I like the fact that we fly under the radar… Every year there’s some media darling that basks in the spotlight, and every year the Jazz show up ready to punch people in the mouth and fight for what is theirs. I can’t wait to see the new look squad in action this year. The experts having us in the mid 40’s win wise is hilarious! I was feeling like maybe 53, but the more I think things over I get the feeling were prime for 56-60 W’s.
GO JAZZ!!!!!
2nd seed
in the west is second seed in the west, people. Its nothing to be THAT proud of. With all these other west teams it seems like its the best thing we can get with Kobe and Gasol still in our conference. If some pundit or analyst annoints a particular squad second seed in the west, the fans are so gracious and honored. Its rubbish! 1st seed is what the goal should be. LA won the first seed last year by winning three more games than the 2nd seed. But the second and eight seed were separated by a whopping 3 GAMES. Most likely this will be the case again. Any of the same teams in the top 8 last season could logically obtain the second seed including the Jazz, OKC, Denver, Houston, Dallas, PHX, San Anton, portland. All teams have like an equal 14% chance imo with such a little difference in win totals.
So while the 2nd seed sounds awfully nice and flattering it could be any team to obtain it. Grab a name out of a hat if you want. And dont be surprised if it comes down to tiebreakers again.
Im not worried about OKC I dont know why you guys are, they cannot match our playoff experience, coaching, frontcourt, etc, etc. The media obsession with them is to be expected since KD is the best player to come into the league since LeBron. The media jumps on whatever bandwagon they believe will garner the most ratings, its a simple formula.
you know who I am so sick of hearing about
the trinity in Florida. How many articles can ESPN conjure up? How many nicknames can three players have? How many stations will broadcast their games simultaneously? How many bandwagon Heat fans will come out of the woodwork?
Billions.
At least the OKC’s did it the right way.
Hype is part of the game
I agree there is good hype and bad hype. Deserved and undeserved. Being annointed King before stepping on an NBA court regardless of physical prowess is undeserved hype. I’m surprised they didn’t hand him a couple of championship trophies for getting the Cavs to the playoffs.
I’m hesitant, however, to lump KD into the same category. Why? KD isn’t your standard self promoting egomaniac. He’s doing everything the right way.
First, at a young age where it’s clear he will only get better, he’s an assassin on the court. He actually plays hard defense. He’s already won a scoring title. He became the leader of the Fiba championship team not because he demanded it, but because his play and example demanded it…so even league vets and champs like Lamar Odom followed. He makes others on his team better. He insists that lesser known members of his team that havn’t gotten any hype be in photo shoots with him when asked to pose alone. Rather than exploiting the opportunity hype himself in the offseason, he quietly and quickly signed with OKC stating he loved it there.
Lastly, he’s one of the surprising new players that gives me hope for the NBA and the direction it is going. Every bit of hype that goes OKC’s way means a little less going Lebron’s, Melo’s and CP3’s way. ( I still have hope for CP but he made me sad this off-season.) The guys in OKC aren’t asking for any of it. They are just playing good basketball and coming together as a team. Whatever hype they may have been given they are and have been earning on and off the court the right way.
If anything, OKC gives a a team like our Jazz some hope. I see them doing the same kind of things the Jazz try to do. Get “character guys” that can play. And represent the game the best way they can.
I have great hopes for the Jazz this year and believe they will surprise a lot of people if we can only stay healthy. We won’t get the hype…ever. That’s ok with me. But I’m happy to some of it going to a team like OKC. I think they deserve every bit of it, that they are that good and will root for them to win a championship right up until they do one thing…play the Utah Jazz.
by Dan Swope on Oct 22, 2010 3:38 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Loved the post
And I think the hype deserves a bit more than a shrug and “ah well.” Here’s a few reasons why:
The “experts” have decided that all stories about this upcoming season will be about (a) the Heat, (b) the Lakers, © the Thunder, and (d) speculation about other stars dumping their teams and fans to pull a LeBron. No matter what happens. Lets say the Jazz reach their topmost ceiling and win the NBA championship (and yes, that is their topmost ceiling). What will we get?
Analysis and opining on why the Heat experiment didn’t work, on why the Lakers “dynasty” fell short, and why the Thunder didn’t improve as expected. We’ll read about whether there’s chemistry issues between the three nicknames, on how Kobe is so focused to get back on top, on how KD needs more help from his teammates, and on how Chris Paul will join the Heat in 2012.
That’s why fans of the other teams ā particularly the other teams that have a genuine shot at being really good ā should be irritated.
And there are a lot of other great things to follow about the other teams. I’d love weekly stories on how Andrew Bogut’s Squad 6 experiment has totally changed the excitement of basketball in Milwaukee (of all places). I’d love weekly stories following the Wolves’ build-a-team-around-Darko plan.
But that’s not what we’re going to get. It will be Heat, Lakers, Thunder, and Superfriend Speculation all the time, regardless.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
by Yucca Man on Oct 22, 2010 9:35 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
yes
Yucca Man you are spot on. there are so many stories in the NBA that are untold because of they hype of other teams. Its in my opinion why the NBA struggles with fans. I wouldn’t know about Bogut’s Squad 6 experiment if I didn’t follow him on Twitter. It is a great story.
Other teams and players have things to offer I don’t need 24/7 of the Heat, Lakers and OKC.
I think thats why fans end up hating those teams is because of the constant coverage.
If the Jazz do make it to the Finals the story will be why the Lakers failed. Its wrong.
by dianaallen on Oct 22, 2010 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
you get a star, and so does Yucca
Follow me on Twitter: @AllThatAmar ... Check out: SLCDUNK.com ... E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Oct 22, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't see why it's a bad thing
That another small market team like the OKC are getting hype. As a small market team, shouldn’t we be cheering for their success over the Heat, Lakers, Celtics, etc?
I think there is a misdirected anger at the OKC for recieving something we think we deserve when instead we should be applauding them.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Amar explained very clearly why he doesn't like it
I hate [hype] especially because deserving squads get overlooked because of these flavors of the month that pop up.
Yes, OKC may be a good team this year. But they have NOT done anything to deserve the amount of attention they have received this offseason. And by receiving such overbearing attention, they stop other stories from getting told.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
by Yucca Man on Oct 22, 2010 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again why don't they deserve it?
Durant led team USA to a championship this year, they held their own against the Lakers last year. They were drastically underestimated last year and turned that into a great season. They’ve kept basically the same squad of players that helped them get into the playoffs last year.
I kinda feel like we are just being jealous cause they are talking about their star instead of our star, and their team instead of our team. I mean what did the Jazz do that hte Thunder didn’t do last year that makes us deserving of hype?Got swept by the Lakers the next round? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Jazz man through and through but geeeeze. Kinda comes off like we are trying to have a pissing contest with the Thunder about who has the longest range.
I’d rather hear about the Thunder than the big market teams, as I’ve said before. I can understand yelling about hype involving the big markets, kobe, lebron, etc. When a small market team is getting attention we should be rejoicing, not complaining about em. I mean I got sick of the Favre retiring/unretiring, where is Lebron going to go, is Vick the best QB for the Eagles, have the Lakers assembled the best roster yet, etc etc. Hearing about the THunder for me doesn’t even come close to any of that crap.
If we were in the Thunder’s position, wouldn’t we feel validated and happy about it? Or are we content with stories about why D-will wants/ doesn’t want to leave the Jazz? What are we going to say if someone else wanting to hear the score of a game has to listen to a whole program about why the Jazz are awesome this year opposed to the last 2 decades?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!

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