Free Agent Gripe
by JazzMoney on Oct 3, 2010 12:01 PM MDT
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PrintThe Decision...isn't that putting a little too much importance on one players "choice" of where he takes his "talent", or is it? Lebron's reputation has been raked through the hot coals, ironically, he chose the heat and when he did, though he didn't realize it, he chose martyrdom and the fire his reputation is being put in is a fire he started himself. One thing the decision does is it makes the statement that Lebron thinks he can handle the pressure of the meida, sure, but it also raises the question of whether he left Cleaveland because he couldn't handle the pressure of saving a franchise?
Using some wisdom that has been picked up as a Jazz fan, it is sad that Lebron draws comparisons between his role on the heat and 'big game james'. Antawn jamison and crew got abandoned because The King wants the sweet heart role, ya, I said it, why couldn't jamison be the big game james instead of the king. Lebron James chose this, from the king, to this weak *&$(*!!! Had Lebron stayed in Cle, he probably ends up known as the best player ever if he wins a championship or two, even if he doesn't win any, he's in the conversation still, now it looks like he's okay with role as the second fiddle, wait, Magic Kareem...worthy, wait that's third fiddle.
Karl Malone, in the conversation as best pwfd ever. John Stockton, in the conversation for best pg ever. Those two carried the Jazz franchise and it's hard to imagine either of their places in basketball being replaced by anyone else who thought they could've done less. By the way, their records are legendary and whether or not they won a championship or whether a gold ring looks good, nothing from their iconic influence is taken from this suddenly important fact about a person, that they win a championship. Lebron James probably won't ever get the tag that he had saved a franchise, I have doubts whether its better to say I have championships or I have saved a franchise.
While the decision may have a beneficial impact on the popularity of basketball at the international level, I mean, it seems like it will be cool for people who don't know much about the players and the sport at this level to think about three really good players on one team. However, it's hard to look at this and say the media heat is going to make them a tough team right now, or that the spotlight they are getting is an assumption with imminence, so while they have "sacrificed" or whatever that means to them, why should their lack of definition as a team include gold trophies while it doesn't preclude a media storm that benefits those players most directly. That it doesn't count the most where it should mean the most to these players, and for the franchises and fans who know the game the best, and at this level this is the best, the analysis that the heat aren't as tough as they are cool to think about right now, is the only correct way to opine. This is why you can hope to expect the heat to have some problems; defining their roles. As long as the season is and as tough as it to win, as even the monuments that established this sport have said likewise, rolling into gold trophies isn't as easy as rolling into NBA arenas like the basketball season is an episode of entourage, .
All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.
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Here's a bit of eerie commentary
From Book of Basketball, by Simmons:
[He] can do one thing well—score. He turns his own team into a congress of butlers whose principal function is to get him the ball under the basket. Their skills atrophy, their desires wane … He blamed his teammates and coaches after losses … some believe he achieved too much too soon … [he] was spoiled something fierce [by the team ownership]. A lot of times … he was out of control … [he] began to think he was more important than his coach or teammates … [He] had become convinced that people came to the games in order to see him and that, therefore, the point of every game was to give him an opportunity to play the star.
The subject of the quote? Wilt Chamberlain. A guy his teammates despised, his opponents ultimately decided (seemingly universally) was an underachiever and a loser.
Now all you have to do is substitute a couple of phrases: Start with "He can do two things well—use his ungodly athleticism to score and great court vision to make highlight-worthy-passes. He turns his own team into a congress of butlers whose principal function is to stand around, watch him do his thing, and gratefully accept the ball and shoot if he passes their way.
Change those two things, and suddenly doesn’t it sound a lot like LeBron? Spoiled and indulged by owner? Check. Teammates fail to develop as players? Check. Huge collapses by said player when his team was good enough to win it all? Check. Believes his play “spoils” his teammates, his coaches, and the paying fans? Check.
Sadly, I don’t see LeBron’s career ending well unless he fundamentally changes the kind of player he is. Even winning a couple of championships with the Heat won’t do it. It will take a lot more than that to forget that he had two Cleveland teams with talent enough to win a championship, but LeBron inexplicably collapsed two years in a row for no good reason.
Then instead of carrying that team on his back again—a team that won 60+ games in two years, a team that was—on paper—built to match up well and beat just about anyone—instead of pushing himself to become the kind of guy that can lead a championship-caliber team, LeBron gave up and ran to Miami with his buddies.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
right on.
ya can’t stand simmons, mostly because of his bias towards the jazz, but you are right about lebron, i’d add that his weak decision was an admitted failure, cle fans have a right to be angry, and how it went down esp with the dancing, i hope the heat gets cle treatment in every arena.
Why fundamentally change the kind of player you are, when you are the best?
First off the decision was terrible. I don’t think much of LeBron off of the court. I do however appreciate the way the guy plays the game. I get not liking LeBron, but to compare him to Wilt isn’t hurting him a whole lot. So you are saying he is one of the 10 best players to ever play the game. So you are saying he is one of the most physically gifted players ever. Contrary to Wilt, LeBron never would have been traded multiple times in his prime (No a sign and trade doesn’t count). Look back at LeBron’s year last year. Have we ever seen one greater? He did that with Mo Williams and ½ a season of Jamison. Substitute those 2 for Wade and Bosh and isn’t that team better? That is basically what he did. So he improved his own situation, and now he sucks as a basketball player? I hate what he did to Cleveland. I wish he would have stayed there and finished what he started, but basically it was his "decision." I think he looked at the Lakers team that one the championship game with Kobe going 6 for 24 and thought, “If I go 6 for 24 in Cleveland we are dead in the water.” If LeBron was on that Lakers team instead of Kobe then LeBron wins the ring last year.
LeBron basically is Deron William’s playmaking + AK’s versatility rolled up into Malone’s body . He is also younger than D-Will. I think we all still look at guys like Deron, Millsap, and Big Al as having a bright future in head of them, yet 25 year old LeBron’s career is already decided for him? The truth is we keep waiting for a next Jordan, but even Jordan had Pippen. Kobe couldn’t get out of the first round of the playoffs without Gasol or Young Shaq. D-Wade got his ring with Pre-washed up Shaq. And you blame LeBron for Clevland’s past two years post seasons coming up empty? Really? So in 09 when he was scoring 35 a game with 7.3 assists and 9.1 per game, he was definitely the reason that Clevland lost that year. Bird never had a post season like that, but Bird did have McHale, the Chief, and DJ. I do think something happened to LeBron in game 5 of the Celtics series. I can’t explain it. You can criticize that all you want and I will be with you. But even with that game, he averaged 29.1 points with 7.6 assists and 9.3 rebounds per game. He did bounce back two days later in the game that they got eliminated putting up 27 with 19 rebounds and 10 assists. He must have been the reason they lost that game.
All said and done I get that both he and Wilt put up great stats and didn’t always win. However, when all is said and done Wilt got 2 rings and got them playing with hall of famers like Jerry West and Hal Greer, the closest thing LeBron has had to a Hall of Famer is Shaq’s dead corpse. I think LeBron still wants to be remember as the best of all time and I think he thought this is his way to get there. We have tended to judge the best all time players by championships. Russell has 11 rings, he also had Cousey, Jones, Hondo, etc. Magic has 5 rings, but he also had Kareem and Worthy. Kareem has 6 rings, but he had Oscar and Magic and Worthy. Larry and Jordan had their hall of fame side kicks. As did Shaq and Kobe. So you look at the guys that are at the top of the all time greatest list . They all have 2 things, rings and hall of fame teammates. I think LeBron didn’t look at going to Miami as the easy way out, though it may be. I think LeBron looked at Miami as a place with a hall of fame talent level teammate and a chance to get the rings that tend to come along with it. If LeBron wins 4 to 6 rings with Miami he will be remembered far differently than how he is currently painted. That is where Bill Simmons’ system of ranking all time great players is laking. He puts more emphasis on winning a championship than he does on carrying a franchise. (See that fact that he rates DJ and Paul Peirce ahead of Reggie Miller.) Stockton and Malone carried a franchise for 20 years and that doesn’t get you ranked as high as Moses Malone because he got a ring with Dr. J in Philly. If Karl Malone would have got that ring in LA in ’04 I guess. according to some, that would have made his career top 10 all time career. I personally think we should measure players more by how they led their teams and what they accomplished doing it. But mark my words, if LeBron wins a few championships in taking his talents to South Beach he will be back in the all time best conversation.
Yep, if he wins a few he'll be back int he conversation.
Here’s what I think LeBron has to show: willingness and ability to come through when it really, really matters. There was no explicable reason for him to fall short the past two postseasons. Not the way he did. I’ve never seen a basketball player that should be so dominant … but then wilt away so badly. Not the way LeBron did the past two playoffs.
And LeBron hasn’t shown one lick of work to overcome his basketball weaknesses. He’s still a lousy outside shooter. He still has no post game (and that is where he ought to be completely unstoppable), no footwork, no ability to run plays, and he still plays mostly mediocre defense (with intermittent highlight fast break blocks). He dominates with athleticism … but he could do so much more.
And I do not think LeBron’s going to have a shot at 4-6 championships unless he develops these things. And the crazy thing is he hasn’t shown the ability or willingness to do them yet. That is how LeBron will have to show something he hasn’t shown at all yet.
And the Wilt comparisons should be troubling. We look back differently, 40 years later, but I have never heard any quote from any player, coach, or writer of his time that had any respect for him. That’s kind of sad.
The thing that really gets me about LeBron is he has never, as far as I can tell, had a teammate improve while playing with him. I’m not talking about the more nebulous “Magic made his teammates better” kind of thing. I’m talking about Ronnie Brewer developing from a nobody to a quality starter. Or Wesley Matthews. Or Millsap. Or pre-Cleveland Mo Williams. Or JJ Reddick. Or Nate Batum. Or the dozens upon dozens of guys all over the league who turn themselves into far better players than they were originally. I don’t know how much blame should go to the Cleveland front office for finding guys who don’t improve, how much should go to Mike Brown for his general terrible coaching, but every time I see a LeBron as a Cav game, I’m struck by everyone standing around and watching LeBron, and I wonder if it’s even possible to get better and become a good player in that situation.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I like it
I think we are in the same line of thinking, you are just a little more down on the Heat than I am. Mike Brown’s offense of let LeBron take the ball at the top of the Key and go one on five was terrible. I also don’t know if the reason LeBron’s teammates never really imporved was because he didn’t make them better or their offense didn’t help them improve. Either way though they didn’t help him. How else can a guy average 35, 7, and 9 and be thought of as "wilt"ing away in the post season. I guess you used ’Wilt" for a reason.
I don’t know how you don’t see that Miami could win 4 to 6 rings? You basically just said that he had enough talent around him the last 2 years that he should have won championships both years, yet he is now on a more talented team. I know they aren’t deep, but bascially it is 2 of the best five players in the league, with another top 20 player on there team all in their prime. Boston won 3 years ago with 3 stars past their primes and a bunch of role players. The problem with the Celtics is that age has caught them. Age isn’t yet a factor for the Heat. If they win next year I will be surprised because I feel like they will have a huge bulls eye on their back all year. I think everyone will be so up for them that they will take it to them, but after the newness of it wears off and they learn how to play together, I think they are going to be scary good.
While my dislike for Lebron James is really high right now, and although I appreciate Bill Simmons' insights in the Book of Basketball more than anyone, you are selling Lebron James very short.
It’s too bad for Lebron, but right now he is remembered for that bad, and really bizarre, performance against the Celtics last playoffs. Something was going on there that we may never know. He just wasn’t trying. And I agree, that whatever was holding him back, held his team back as well. But calling him out for losing to the Magic the year before, is really unfair. Could it just be that the Magic were better? I think they were. They had a lane stopper in Howard and they could throw 2 or 3 long, speedy defenders at Lebron. And if the Magic had had a healthy Jameer Nelson against the Lakers, I think they would have won the championship. The Magic lost 4-1 but two of those losses went to overtime and Van Gundy was forced to use JJ Redick as his point guard in several critical minutes.
But it’s not like Lebron rolled over against the Magic. He hit that legendary game winner in game 2 and then put up 44, 12 and 7 in an overtime loss in game 4 that was the pivotal game in the series. He averaged 38, 8 and 8, even when the entire opposing defense was created to stop him. He shot over 50% from the field. This was only 2 years removed from his legendary singlehanded dethroning of the Eastern Conference champion Detroit Pistons. Selfish to score like 36 straight points for the Cavs? Maybe. But they won.
I know that you think you are going to be proved right about your feelings towards Lebron James, when the Cavs challenge for the playoffs this season, but I think the Cavs will be lucky to win 30 games. One of us will obviously be more right about it, but Lebron passes the ball to open teammates and he made the Cavs about 30 games better. Mike Brown is to blame, almost solely, for Lebron’s offensive deficiencies in Cleveland.
The comparisons to Wilt are not really close and pretty inappropriate, in my opinion. Simmons slams Chamberlain for being a “me first” guy, and while I think Lebron has morphed into an incredibly selfish person, he doesn’t play selfishly. Chamberlain would go to the scorers table and ask about his stats. He purposefully tried to lead the league in assists, even at the detriment of his team. Other than maybe the final few games of last seasons series against the Celtics, this behavior doesn’t apply to James. Lebron has been too unselfish at times and was journalistically executed when he passed up a game winning shot attempt to pass to…I think it was Ira Newble for an open three point shot. And yet, people don’t like it when he puts up 50 points in a losing effort. That is what is the truth for Lebron these days. He can’t make anyone happy with his play unless he starts winning championships. His statistics and his ability to win in the regular season are mind boggling. He is putting up numbers that we haven’t seen in this generation since Shaquille Oneal 10 years ago. And he is winning with one of the most untalented groups of guys any number one seed has seen, maybe ever. Cleveland isn’t even going to be as talented as the best Jamison led Wizards teams that had a ceiling of the 4 seed.
You, of all people, should understand the difficulty the Cavs were in, when they traded for Jamison and sort of threw together this group that was expected to come together in a 2 month period and be contenders. That team had two guys who played a role, actually one. Anderson Varajao. Booby Gibson played a role the season before. Lebron was the hustle guy, the stopper, the playmaker and the finisher. Nobody in the league has that many roles. Not even Kobe anymore. But for anyone to give Lebron serious props, he needs to win titles.
Which brings me to my last long-winded point. I hated, actually despised, the way that Lebron handled his free agency. It made me sick to my stomach. Literally. I was so heartsick for the fans of Cleveland, that I went out and bought some Cavs gear the next day, out of respect for a city that just got absolutely blindsided on national television. The way he handled the decision was despicable. But the decision as its own entity? I completely understand it. He wants to win championships. In fact, playing in Miami is one of the most unselfish decisions Lebron could have made. He is saying “winning is more important than anything, even being decent, or getting top dollar.” I believe that he tried to get another star to come to Cleveland and I think deep down, we all would have loved for Lebron to help Cleveland win it’s first anything, other than the rock n’ roll hall of fame. But Cleveland had completely painted themselves in a corner financially, and unless another star volunteered to take a big pay cut, I don’t think Lebron believed he could win in Cleveland ever.
Ask yourself this question, honestly. How many times have you questioned an athlete’s motives when he took tons of money to play for a team that had no chance of winning the championship? I know I have done it about a million times. I think it’s ridiculous that a guy like Rudy Gay can sign away the next 6 years of his career to go 35-47 every year. That guy doesn’t really want to win, he wants the most money possible. Lebron’s decision is the opposite of that and is really pretty groundbreaking. Only veterans do that. Stars in their prime don’t take paycuts and cuts in stardom to win. They just don’t. And most people hate Lebron for teaming up with his buddies and taking the easy way out. But you can’t have it both ways and you can’t ask James to do it both ways. We want to see him not team up with two other olympians, yet we expect him to win titles and carry a super-mediocre squad and super mediocre coach to the highest pinnacle every year. It’s unfair. And I don’t respect or like Lebron anymore and I can even admit that it’s unfair.
I don’t think it has anything to do with race, but it’s unfair. He has just started a trend that will lead to many “franchise players” doing the same to their collective small market teams, but it’s unfair that say that Lebron is selfish for it. He isn’t trying to score 100 points a game or lead the league in assists. He’s trying to win, which is what all of us fans want athletes to value above all else.
I know that’s what I expect from my sports heroes. I want them to want to win first and foremost. Secondly, to win for their true fans. But I would rather have the first if I can’t have both.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
And I apologize for the long winded comment.
If you don’t feel like reading it all, I said that Lebron’s decision was horrible, in the way it was handled, but that going to Miami was actually an unselfish move, showing he wanted to win.
I also called the other Cleveland Cavs mediocre at best and lauded James for being a stats machine and being unselfish and being stuck between a rock and a hard place in pleasing NBA followers.
I also blamed Lebron for the hypothetical backstabbing that Deron Williams may one day perform on every Utah Jazz fan. Hypothetical, I said.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
You're right I'm probably unfair
And I’m not nearly as high on the Cavs as I had been. Though I still think they have talent to compete for a low playoff spot (it is the East).
The main Wilt-like things about LeBron are how badly he was spoiled by team ownership, how he seemed to think he was bigger than the team (I spoil everyone comments), and most weird, how his teammates skills atrophied while playing with the Cavs.
But you’re right than my selective memory wasn’t fair about the Magic series. LeBron never quit then. The Magic were just better.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I agree with those comparisons. Lebron has developed a god-complex in the last 2 seasons. I can't believe I defended him like I just did.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
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