The Downbeat - 8 February 2010 - #161 - The CBA Nightmare Edition
by Basketball John on Feb 8, 2010 9:34 AM MST
in The Downbeat
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In negotiating, you expect lopsided requests when you start. For the involved parties, you start out asking for the moon and hope to meet somewhere in the middle with each side hoping the middle ends up being a little above their actual price.
But what if instead of asking for the moon, one party goes for Alpha Centauri? That's what the NBA owners have done in their first offer for the new collective bargaining agreement that would start after the 2011 season. Here's some of the things that are reportedly in their offer,
- Cutting the percentage of player revenue
- Less guaranteed money
- Hard salary cap
- The new CBA would require existing deals to be re-worked to fit within the new guidelines. That means that everyone getting huge deals this summer would have to take huge pay cuts. Would teams have to get rid of players if it couldn't re-work deals?
- No more MLE
Sources, 1, 2
I haven't read anything where the league is willing to offer other things to help offset these changes. It seems like the biggest thing they're after is less guaranteed money. They don't want any of the repercussions of signing someone like Curry or Marbury to huge deals and then get killed for the last 2-3 years of the deal when the player is no longer worth it.
Basically they want to be able to make big deals without the repercussions of such a risk.
The owners just might get what they want.
Yeah for the NBA!
Adrian Wojnarowski had the best quote on the deal, "Yes, the NBA delivered its players an initial proposal and it sure did look like a big finger flicked in the union’s face."
Trying to link the Jazz to the Saints win last night is a big stretch considering that the Jazz haven't been relevant in New Orleans for 3 decades, but it was great to see a city that hasn't won a championship finally get one.
Don't kill me RSL fans, I know we have a championship in Salt Lake now. Maybe I should revise that and say that it's good to see a franchise get its first title. Kind of gives me hope for our team some day.
I was looking up some win shares information on this year and a couple of numbers stood out to me. First, Carlos Boozer still leads the team, and by a wide margin, in defensive win shares. I hearken back to when I ripped Boozer for his D after the loss to the Celtics. He has been playing really well and his slap steal against the Nuggets was Malone-esque. He's been aggressive on both ends of the court and has been physical. We just haven't seen that from him. If something has finally turned on in his head, that's amazing. If that something is playing for a contract, then I'm pissed because he should have been doing this all along. We benefit now, but where was this before?
Second, behind Deron in offensive win shares is Boozer. That's not a surprise of course. The surprise is that Andrei Kirilenko is tied with Boozer at 2.7 for offensive win shares. Another sign that AK is playing out of his mind. His PER is also the highest its been since the 2006 season.
Sloan's control over personnel decisions might be less that you think. Here's a snip from Tim Buckley's column,
And that is that he would not stand in the way of whatever ownership and management decide, even if it were to mean moving Boozer or another key component — starting shooting guard Ronnie Brewer has been mentioned in recent trade talk too — just to get under the luxury line.
"If they have a decision to make, a front-office decision, we'll play whoever's here," he said Saturday. "That's our job in coaching. I don't try to tell people what to do with their money, or anything else. I never have.
I think you have to trust Sloan when he says this. Sloan is one of the most straight-forward people ever so he's not going to say something like this without it being true.
However, I still think he has a big say in who the Jazz draft/sign/trade. He may not go to the FO with requests but I'm sure they talk to him about every move and his thoughts probably have a lot of weight.
Monday poll,
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odd man out
It looks like Korver is everybodys pick to get traded. I think he should play ahead of CJ but I’m not Sloan. Reworking the CBA to increase a franchises profit is good for fans. With less money going to players ticket price can be controlled better and teams could become more even. I wish they could get away from the luxury tax. If you are over the limit you must cut or trade players to get under if your still over you forfiet games until you are under. This would maybe get players that want to win to take less money and give a chance to guys like Mathews and Gaines to play.
by neds on Feb 8, 2010 10:31 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for ticket prices to come down
But I don’t think it happens, at least not significantly. They’re still going to need that same level of revenue coming in. They just want more of it.
by Basketball John on Feb 8, 2010 10:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Also funny how there’s not one vote for Boozer yet.
by Basketball John on Feb 8, 2010 10:59 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, I really can't see anybody but Korver going by the deadline
The team is playing so well that the FO wouldn’t dare throw it off. Korver is the only piece that is not being rotated in to be a major contributor. I wold like to see Memo (and especially CJ!!!!!) moved, but I don’t see it happening.
by Bobby Joness on Feb 8, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
More importantly, Korver is easily the best trade piece. He's a productive player with a big expiring contract. He's like trading gold.
Nothing against Kyle personally. The fact that he isn’t getting minutes also helps.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Feb 8, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still a bit worried
about the team not picking up Brewer’s offer.
It’ll make him more attractive to other teams… expiring contract or good young player, whichever they prefer
Free Koufosenko!
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
True Blue Jazz
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by UtesFan89 on Feb 8, 2010 1:08 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Korver
really does seem to be the odd man out. Which bothers me. I feel like he’s more an outside shooting threat and plays better defense than Miles. I guess his contract is the only problem. On top of that, lets face it, Korver has a pretty big market for being pretty.
What’s the deal with with everyone wanting Okur to be moved. I guarantee that you’re not going to get a Center for Center swap this year and trading Okur for another position is retarded. Whats the future at the Center position with him gone? Fes and Kouf? That terrifies me. Neither of them has been developed enough or has shown enough to be a starting Center. I realize we like the AK, Milsap, Boozer lineup but that’s a small lineup and there is no way we can go up against LA, Orlando, or the Cavs with a lineup that small. Okur is staying, unless clouds part and the hand of God comes down to create such a trade…..
For the Love, can we please get Miles out of Utah. …
Finally. GO JAZZ!
For the Love of the Game
by ForTheLove on Feb 8, 2010 1:28 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I still say.
Figure out a way to give each player a mill a year.
Divy up the excess at the end of the season according to talent, results, team stats, no individual stats could be used.
Limit agents cut of that.
Teams need a way to get rid of dead wood, even high priced dead wood is still dead wood.
Oh well it’s a thought
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by RRR on Feb 8, 2010 2:00 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Trading Korver
Just a thought. I read that the Bulls are fed up with Tyrus Thomas and looking to trade him. So it got me to thinking about kyle being traded. He is trade gold because his contract is expiring, he’s a great team asset with killer outside shooting, and he creates marketability with his prettiness.
So enter Trade Generator. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg3csmn.
I think a trade of Korver for Thomas would be a great move. It adds more depth to the the F/C position depending on where we want to play him. The bulls are trying to get rid of him because he’s having conflicts with the coach, PLUS, his contract expires at the end of this season. Shopping Kyle for him will help the bulls out by giving them an outside shooter and they still would have an expiring contract at the end of the season.
For the Jazz, we get a big man who plays relatively good defense. He’s like a taller Milsap. Very athletic. He’s 6’10 and he’s got nice hops (participated in the Dunk contest a few years ago).The kids averaged almost 2 blocks a game last year in 27 minutes of play and 1 steal. Oh and 11 points a game. He averaged 6 rebounds, shot 78 percent from the free throw line and 45% from the field. On top of this his contract also expires at the end of the season but we’d save another 500,000 this year.
I love Korver, but he’s not getting playing time and we’re seeing more of CJ (God help us all). If at the end of the season we like thomas we can resign him to be a back up to Milsap or we could even try to resign Korver.
Anyways, just a thought. It helps remove the log jam of Brewer, Matthews, AK, Korver, and CJ. Plus it gives us another Big man so we don’t have to rely on Kouf or Fes and could help us throw another big body at teams like the Lakers
For the Love of the Game
by ForTheLove on Feb 8, 2010 4:30 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
GREAT TRADE
I think this trade works for everybody. Is Thomas a restricted free agent this summer?
by neds on Feb 8, 2010 4:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas is a restricted FA
Are the Bulls in need of a shooter? I don’t know if they have a need for KK. Otherwise it looks like something that should be done.
Tyrus could also be brought back should Boozer not come back to back up Millsap. What I’ve read though is that Thomas doesn’t want to be a backup.
I also worry about disrupting the chemistry of this team right now too. I don’t know if we have a vet that can absorb him or not.
by Basketball John on Feb 8, 2010 5:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
The bulls would really like Korver.
They have Rose, Hinrich, Deng, GIbson, and Noah starting. Salmons comes off the bench and is also a pretty good outside shooter. However, I think they’d love to have Korver coming of the Bench to help out. They have an extremely weak bench, in my opinion, outside of Salmons and Thomas. Salmons does play SF but he could easily be moved to play SG. The real plus though is they are getting rid of Thomas who is disrupting the team by fighting with the coach etc. Plus, it’s pretty well known that they Bulls aren’t extending Thomas’ contract and he’s been injured.
That being said. It helps us shed some payroll. I don’t know what Thomas’ thought process would be coming off the bench. However, if at the end of the season he doesn’t work out, we don’t have to resign him. It would be an experiment. I just think that having a Big Man who can play defense would help us make a better push into the post season. Plus, it’s helping the Bulls remove a distraction while getting someone who can come in and help them off the bench in Korver.
I dunno, it was just a thought.
For the Love of the Game
by ForTheLove on Feb 8, 2010 5:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No, it’s a great idea. I didn’t know about them needing a shooter. I like Thomas’ skills but still have doubts as to how he would mesh with the team. Maybe someone like Deron and CJ are what he needs.
I think it would be an excellent trade talent-wise. The Bulls might want a bit more though.
by Basketball John on Feb 8, 2010 6:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Along those same lines, Kurt Thomas of the Bucks is also available.
Maybe a trade like Korver for Kurt Thomas helps the Bucks be more competitive in making the playoffs and gives the Jazz a veteran defender who has played on several champion-type playoff teams. Just thinking out loud.
If the front office has decided they aren’t going to try and sign Korver in the offseason to some sort of deal, then they would be silly not to trade him.
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by clarkpojo on Feb 8, 2010 9:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
bulls shooter
the bulls need two things, outside shooting and a low-post presence. korver, however, is not as good of a player as thomas. that’s why that trade won’t work.
by Mattreedah on Feb 8, 2010 5:44 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I’m worried about a trade hurting the team chemistry. Why break up something that is working? Korver’s shooting is always worth keeping, especially on the road where he seems to shoot better while other players seem to shoot much worse(cough CJ Miles *cough).
by utahmanami on Feb 8, 2010 6:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
True
Kyle’s not getting Playing Time lately though. He’s getting alot of DNP-CD’s, or his minutes are limited. He’s a great shooter but shooters have to play to keep their consistancy up. Not only that, we are playing alot of AK at SF, with Milsap, and Okur/Boozer. I personally feel AK is more important to have on the court right now than Korver is.
If I could by the grace of God turn a CJ for Tyrus Thomas trade….I’d do it in a heartbeat. I don’t think I have that kind of connections though :).
I think the trade would help both teams but I guess it all comes down to how much the Bulls view Thomas as a problem.
For the Love of the Game
by ForTheLove on Feb 8, 2010 7:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the Saints
Who Dat!!
I’ve been pretty much a lifelong fan of the Jazz and Saints. I never thought the Saints win a super bowl before the Jazz claimed an NBA Finals Trophy. It was a great scene last night, and the fact that I got to see Drew Brees and Co. win the big one is truely special.
I hope DWill and the Jazz have a similiar experience this summer.
Oh, and in my eyes the Utah Jazz are still the original New Orleans basketball team. I just can’t come to grips that the Hornets just moved to New Orleans from Charlotte. I never felt connected to them.
Here is one thing that the Saints and Jazz have in Common: Their fan bases are phenomenal. ESA and the Superdome are widely considered to be arguably the most difficult places for opponents to play.
by brock38 on Feb 8, 2010 7:55 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
It will be interesting to see what we come up with for this blog, when the 2011-2012 season doesn't happen at all.
Maybe we can start talking about horse racing. Or MMA or something.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
by clarkpojo on Feb 9, 2010 1:08 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
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