The Downbeat - 20 May 2010 - #233 - The Most Hated Edition
by Basketball John on May 20, 2010 10:14 AM MDT
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A quickie Downbeat this morning. Even the Jazz players that frustrate us the most don't garner hate from Jazz fans but there are a few players that have been loathed. Here are the top 5 in no particular order
Jason Hart, He was only with the team for one season but never got off on the right foot with the fans after his comments about having to ride in a lesser vehicle after his Escalade got damaged. Couple that with his atrocious 2 for 1s at the end of the 1st and 3rd quarters, his inability to grasp the offense, and lack of community involvment, he was a favorite scapegoat. I don't know if we journeyed into hate territory with Hart but we certainly had a strong dislike for him.
Mark Jackson, He too only played one season for the Jazz in 2002-03. His role was to back up John Stockton and provide a veteran presence for the second team. It seemed though that he though it should be his team and tried to turn the players against Stockton. Also remember that this was Stockton's last season. I don't know what Jackson's motives were, it wasn't like it was going to be a old guard/new guard situation. Jackson barely played the next year with another team and retired after that.
To make it worse, we have to hear him call every Jazz game when they're playing on ABC. To compound that, he's a horrible commentator. What a kick to the groin every time I have to hear him speak.
Derek Fisher, I've had a self-imposed boycott of mentioning Fisher, the Fisher Lied girls, and all other things related to him because I just want the story to go away. However, with this list, he has to be mentioned. He's in the unique category of being hated post-Jazz because of the whole circus involving him going to the Lakers immediately after being released from his contract with the Jazz so that he could be closer to doctors that could care for his daughter's cancer.
I really don't want to start a discussion on this because it's been hashed out too much already but I knew if I left him off this list, he would have been brought up. He may though take the title from Boozer as being the most polarizing Jazz player ever.
Carlos Boozer, He may be one of the most polarizing Jazz players ever. You either love him or hate him and there's plenty on both sides. In strictly basketball terms, you love him because of the offensive output he gives for the team. He has some of the best footwork and ambidextrity of any player in the league. Where the hate comes in is his his apparent lack of committment on the defensive end and his physical toughness. To some he will always be about the money, showing his loyalty to whomever will flash him the most green.
Rony Seikaly/Derek Harper, So these two were never officially Jazz men but they get on the list for spurning Utah in trades that would have sent them here. Harper said, "You go live in Utah." Seikaly's trade was rescinded after he didn't want to come because there was no night life. I think the official reason that trade was cancelled was a failed physical. Seikaly could have helped the Jazz win the championship that year which made his failed trade hurt even worse.
A common theme to all of these hated players, with the exception of Fisher, is angering the blue-collared type Jazz fans. John Stockton and Karl Malone were loved more for their hard work and dedication to the game than for their skills. Put the two together and they're gods. That's why we will always love players like Wesley Matthews over players like DeShawn Stevenson. Give us the hard working, TEAM, from 2003-04 over the 2008-09 guys any day.
Downbeat bonus poll,
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John Amaechi
He kicked our butt when he played against us, then never showed up for 2 years while he was on the Jazz. Not to mention, hmmmm, never mind……..
Fisher
Fisher is unique to this list. He was one of those bench players that quickly became a fan favorite. Jazz fans loved Fisher. Up until he asked out of his contract. I think the passionate hate geared towards his stems from the love we had for him when he was a sold backup to D-Will and provided great veteran locker room experience.
The other players had hate while wearing (almost wearing) a Jazz uni.
i like balls
Exact definition of Benedict Arnold
He was America’s hero. That is why it hurt so bad and tarnished his name to the point where it is synonymous with traitor.
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
So I had this teacher in junior high
And he told us that love and hate aren’t opposites, they’re the same emotion expressed positively or negatively. Indiference is the opposite of them both. So that’s fisher. We loved the guy and he flipped the switch. There was no way we were going to love him and that passion had to go somewhere. So it became hate.
by tyrantking on May 20, 2010 1:10 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Fisher
Had Fisher gone to the Knicks, the Magic, the Heat, the Bulls, anywhere but the Lakers, he would still be loved for what he gave us in that Houston series. The highlight of him coming on-court THAT night would be shown every game on the Jumbotron right after Stockton’s shot to go to the Finals. But he went to the Lakers. Therein lies his unforgivable sin.
Just thought I'd add...
The game where he came in late in the third and hit that three was against Golden State that year, not Houston.
But obviously,
The sentiment is the same as you suggested. Plus, he’s hated for going bananas against us and no other team in the league, at least that’s why I hate him
I submit
Numbers 5c and 5d:
Tim Legler, who was briefly a Jazzman and routinely subtly trashes them whenever given the chance.
Dominique Wilkins, who drafted a Jazzman but refused to come here so was traded.
by Clintonite33 on May 20, 2010 11:22 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
not true on 'Nique
as far as I know, Jazz traded him to ATL for cold hard cash because the team was in bad financial hands back then. He saved the Utah Jazz being in Utah by being so valuable, otherwise those finals years it could have been the Las Vegas Jazz or something else.
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions
There is proof that he said he wouldn't play in Utah. He forced the Jazz's hands. I will post some of that proof at a later date.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I believe that,
but the financial situation w/ the Jazz was equally shoddy. I have a jazz almanac somewhere that discusses this as a trade that was used to save the franchise as a Utah franchise. perhaps that’s white-washing the events.
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions
What about Jordan? I understand the Seikaly and Harper posting but I hate Jordan far more than I hate those guys for obvious reasons. Maybe HATE isn’t the word, but I don’t like him.
And Ostertag is a borderline hate guy. I never knew what to think of him. I would jump on the hate bandwagon then he would pull out a 13 rebound 4 blocked shot game. So he is an honorable mention.
But my number one hated Jazzman is Mark Jackson.
Honorable Mentions
Carlos Arroyo
Gordon Giriceck
Felton Spencer
Blue Edwards (met him for Jr. Jazz and he was arrogant and rubbed all of us wrong)
Boozer isn't polarizing to me...
…he is mystifying and befuddling and frustrating. I don’t love him or hate him for precisely the reasons you mentioned. I love his moves, but I’m frustrated by the other stuff. So I can’t hate him because I love watching him play well. But I can’t love him because he plays well too rarely. So I’m neither far left nor far right…just confounded.
I'll make it coach.
I think he is super polarizing right now.
We really haven’t had a situation where our supposed top 2 player wasn’t wanted back to the fold by most Jazz fans. I know Malone had similar situations, but there was never any doubt that he was committed to winning and he put in the work and effort to make it happen.
I have come to the point where I don’t question Boozer’s effort. But he doesn’t have the ability to be a good enough defender to get the Jazz where they need to go. And I believe he overvalues himself as a player.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I have a hard time with this statement
“But I can’t love him because he plays well too rarely”
He was the most consistent Jazzman this year. Maybe the Lakers series is just burned in your brain.
by Clintonite33 on May 20, 2010 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Ostertag
He should be on that list, And for D-Fish I agree Taivo if he had gone anywhere else but the Lakers he wouldnt be hated. Its a shame tho cus he really is a good guy, and I hate when the fans boo him when the Lakers come to town. I sit there and look at the T.V. and hope Fisher drains 5 or 6 threes to shut these people up because anyone of us would of done the same thing if that was our daughter.
Karl malone got booed when he came to SLC as a laker?
True story?
by tyrantking on May 20, 2010 1:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't remember that
The differences for Karl Malone were many. Namely he wanted a title, Stockton was retiring, the Jazz were headed for rebuilding, and his career was almost over. I don’t remember more than a few jazzfans actively complaining.
Fish was entirely different.
We felt for him
I know I did. Not only that, but it’s not like he defected on his own. 2004 was a weird year because the Lakers werent champs anymore even though they still had Kobe and Shaq, so they just superamped their team for a single title run. No one believed Payton or Malone would stay more than a year, even if they did win it (and they would have won the title had Malone not got injured. The reason I will forever hate the Suns.)
I was going to say this
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Fisher and Ostertag
Fisher. I hate him with a passion. We let him go, and I believe he used his daughter as an excuse. We should’ve traded him. He signed with the Lakers within 48 hours of releasing him, that’s dirty.
Ostertag, he was lazy, slow, and stupid. He never “showed” up, especially when we need him the most.
by KaBar6 on May 20, 2010 1:50 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Fisher
I really believe the number one motivator for Fisher talking to Miller about releasing him was for his daughter. I believe that was the sole reason.
I realize the hate, but I ain’t even going there. Having a child going through something similar, your number one motive is child first. I know it looks slimy but I don’t question it one bit.
Chris Morris
I believe it was Chris Morris. I was much younger when he played but i seem to recall him consistantly butting heads with Sloan, being rediculiously lazy, and being non chalant about everything. I think the Jazz finally had to get rid of him because Sloan couldn’t handle his lack of effort.
Everything we criticize Ostertag for being seemed ot be magnified 100x’s in Morris.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Chris Morris
was just a guy used to being in an unstructured system. I don’t think he was lazy, but he was not as co-operative and gung ho as he could have been. Some pre-season experts on the national stage thought that he’d be the best FA signing of the off-season. An example of what it would be like would be putting Melo on the Jazz now. Melo was used to iso’s all day long, and almost never was involved in a play where he had to pass the ball by design. Same deal with Chris Morris back in NJ.
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Makes sense
I was a young lad in elementary school during those days. I just recall my pops always yellin about him.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
A Few More Nominees
Oden Polynice
Keon Clark
Bernie Fryer
Kirk Snyder
Luther Wright
(I know that those last two probably get a pass because of how their personal lives shook out, but g’damn they were frustrating. And, I don’t have any particular problem with Bernie Fryer, but c’mon, he was a ref!)
Forgot to Add...
Ron Boone, not so much for his time as a player, but his time as the color commentator.
whoa whoa whoa
that’s African American commentator, if you please.
LMAO
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
I dunno why all the hate for boone
I love him. He’s no hot rod but we could do a lot worse.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
i love the booner.
the fact that he sucks makes me like him even more. his voice and odd commentary are almost as synonymous with jazz games as hot rod’s trademark one liners.
by bigdog'sshades on May 20, 2010 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions
re: Derek Harper / Ronny S
it’s easy to hate these guys for ‘not’ joining our team for whatever reason. but still — look at it this way — we PAID other guys to come to our team and they played so bad that they hurt us / deserve our hate on a much larger magnitute. I don’t think Derek Harper would have put us over the top, Ronny (if healthy) – probably. But moves for guys like Polynice (a double double guy most of his career), Hart/Knight (who were supposed to be vets, not turn over machines), etc hurt us more.
this downbeat should be followed up with a ‘guys we love’ downbeat for non-stars. People like Antonie Carr need to be recognized too!
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 3:56 PM MDT reply actions
I fail to see why so many Jazz fans that I've met online love this guy.
sure, he tried hard — and had to over-come some trouble in his life — he a hero he is not in my books.
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on May 20, 2010 5:49 PM MDT up reply actions
you can't hate handlogten just because he sucked and was the ugliest nba player this side of calvin booth
at least he seemed nice and tried hard
by bigdog'sshades on May 20, 2010 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't really hate players
while they are wearing the Jazz uni.
On the other hand, player agents get a whole lotta hate from me.
Good to see one name not on anyones list is CJ. Not too long ago alot of people wanted him gone.
"He is STUPID but he knows that he is STUPID and that almost makes him smart."
Fish
I’m getting medical treatment in New York so I bet moving to LA would be a great idea.
Commitment To Excellence
btw
I think Boozer ends up in New Jersey with Lopez (who will hide Booze’s weaknesses), Devin Harris, in the east, with a new owner who has tons of money…….and LeBron James.
Or else Bosh gets to do that.
I'll make it coach.
Fisher is a Traitor!
What TitanWay6 said.
Inexcusable!
So which was worse?
What fisher did to jazz or what boozer did to cavs?
by tyrantking on May 20, 2010 9:17 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Fisher is worse
What he did, pawning his daughter off to get let go from a team where he wanted no part of. We could’ve at least traded him out. He is as bad as they come.
by KaBar6 on May 21, 2010 9:49 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Oops, phone issue for the double post...
by KaBar6 on May 21, 2010 9:51 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Fisher is worse
What he did, pawning his daughter off to get let go from a team where he wanted no part of. We could’ve at least traded him out. He is as bad as they come.
by KaBar6 on May 21, 2010 9:49 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
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