A couple thoughts from the game last night. aka: why I will think about ending my life as a jazz fan if the Utah Jazz resign Carlos Boozer.
by jake1ar on May 5, 2010 6:18 PM MDT
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First of all, I loved the effort by most of the players last night. I thought they played hard and they kept it close when they easily could have pulled an Atlanta Hawks and lost by 20....or 40?? That’s really all we as fans can ask, is that they bust their butts. So props to our Jazz.
Now a couple of obvious critiques:
-Hey Fes and Koof, lets work on those 2 footers. I am just thinking that as a 7 footer, the 2 foot layup shots should be a pretty well honed skill set. Maybe this will help: Layup Drills (and no that isn’t carlos boozer with the sunglasses on)
-To the Jazz Big men: How about something called boxing out. I am pretty sure I saw Jack NIcholson flying in for a put back dunk during the 4th quarter. And if the guy is reaching over your back, an inadvertent elbow to the nuts might keep him off you. Just saying, think back to Stockton and Malone who were masters at small unnoticed cheap shots that got the opponents mad. This all goes back to the arguments we've had for years that this team is just not tough. Please prove us wrong. You have to be banging with these guys down low. (Warning: an accurate translation of this strategy for Fesenko might be needed.)
-Boozer!!! What the heck is your problem man? Last I checked you were a pretty big and strong young man. True you aren't 7 feet tall, but you weigh more than Gasol, Odom and Bynum. Your bark may be bigger than your bite, but there is no excuse for you to not be keeping these guys out of the paint. Remember how you say before every game that you are “5% body fat coming right at you?” Gasol should be trying to hit fade aways and hook shots from at least 6 feet away from the rim because you are not allowing him to get any closer to the basket. And guess what Boozer, driving into two 7 footers with BYU layups is not gonna be very effective. (see: the Opposite of a BYU Layup- Even Donyell Marshall gets it at 0:34) So if you are going to continually play like a little girl, why not let more effective scorers like Paul Millsap do the scoring? Then you can bust your butt playing some freaking defense. In other words Carlos, have more games like this:
P. Millsap 26 Pts (on 10-17 shooting and 6-8 FT), 11 Reb, 4 Ast,3 Stl, 1 Blk
-To the Jazz front office: You guys would have to be absolutely crazy to sign boozer to a long term 15 mill a year contract after the efforts he has put forward ON DEFENSE. I just don't want a guy on my team who isn't willing to sacrifice his numbers to actually help the team win (think 20-10, since that is what he got again last night even though it was obvious that he got owned and did not help the team win with a team worst -13 +/-). Last night the jazz needed him to at least hinder “the Big Threesome” of the Lakers, play physical and not allow them to get offensive rebounds on 50% of their shots. Instead he shot 21 times and got to the free throw line 3 times. Oh yeah and did I mention help defense?
The sad truth is that I think Boozer is talented enough to be a CONSISTENT dominant PF in the league if he really wanted to be. Maybe he could even start putting up Malonesque numbers. While we are on the subject: How many all defensive teams did Karl Malone make? 4. Was Malone 7 feet tall or have long arms? Nope. Did Malone have to use proactive to clean up his acne? No (although rogaine did wonders for his image). Ok its not fair to compare Boozer to the “Mailman” right? Wrong!! The Jazz are looking at possibly signing him for near max money for the next five years and basically putting the franchise in his hands to deliver us a championship. This is what freaks me out: A player who has missed 500,000 games because of muscle strains, refuses to play defense, and has a name that rhymes with loser and user could be the jazz go to guy for the next 5 years. Millsap may not have as cool tattoos as boozer, or touch the ball after every freethrow, or even get to have face time in the cool NBA playoff commercial, but guess what? The Man just put up some pretty impressive numbers against LA last night, and has proven everytime he’s been asked to start a game that he can fill the void that is Carlos Boozer. So please let Boozer walk this offseason and give the reins to the next Louisiana Tech alumn, and I believe future All Star Paul Millsap.
(other words that rhyme with boozer: bruiser, user, doozer, Kaboomzer, oblique-strainer, jazz killer, False Accuser, and contract abuser [thanks clark]. Yes I made some of those up)
-On a more positive note...props to boozer for hitting the deck going after a loose ball for the first time this year last night. (I would have inserted a picture of him diving for a loose ball here but I went through 50 google image search pages and couldnt find one.)
All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.
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Unfortunately
There are two problems that make the organization want to sign Boozer back on:
- He sells tickets
- No matter his shortcomings, he makes the Jazz a perennial 50 game winner
- He’s hard to replace for a team LOOKING to win a championship
I agree that I’d rather not have Boozer back, but that perfect world preference includes replacing him with someone of equal value (stats) while gaining length and desire. And who is that? You know?
i know you used caps for "LOOKING"
but i think it’s more correct to say that boozer’s hard to replace for a team looking to make the playoffs rather than win a championship. as long as we have to go through the lakers, we can’t talk about championship as this team is currently constituted.
Boozers Jerseys have been on sale this whole season and no one is buying them. The only people I have seen wearing one insists “it was a gift…” Boozer has done a lot of good things for us this year, but I do not think selling tickets can be assessed to him.
With AK Memo and Millsap healthy (kinda iffy), I believe we could still be a 50 win team.
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I was saving this question for a post myself, but...
Here’s what I see as the fundamental issue with the whole Boozer thing;
As we all know by now the Jazz play a System, and how well you play in that system determines your life as a Jazzman. We already know that Boozer can play well in that system. What guarantee do we have that whoever we bring in will not be a dud in our system and therefore put us back another 2-3 years? Who is to say that Bosh or Lee or whichever big man Free Agent we chase is going to want to play in our system? Can you see Bosh accepting the role of Boozer? Can you see Bosh existing in the Flex?
Yes there may be some defensive advantages in going with someone else, but there’s also the massive question of them actually being able to play in our offence.
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
No doubt Boozer fits our offense, but here is the thing...
So does Millsap. And Millsap being the (considerably) better defensive player… this is the argument for letting Boozer go…. and this argument is familiar to all now. But what about keeping both? This is a possibility, but make no mistake about it, it would send other players out the door.
In fact, as we can all see know, due to financial considerations, the choice the Jazz front office made this last off season was to keep Millsap instead of Brewer and Maynor. So if we keep Boozer this year, we will lose players. Probably $12 mill worth. For a spot where Millsap is just as effective.
Considering that, do you really think we should resign Boozer? And no, I don’t think if we pass on Boozer we should sign Lee or could sign Bosh.
We already have two power forwards who are just as effective as Boozer when you factor offense and defense: Millsap and AK.
We were undefeated this year when Boozer played less than 10 minutes in a game as long as we had Millsap and AK healthy.
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"just as effective" regardless of who will get you this:
A playoff exit every year courtesy of Pau Gasol. “Adios” he says.
What we need is an upgrade….if there is one.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 6, 2010 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions
You can't upgrade unless you give up some players. Letting Boozer walk gives the Jazz a better chance of getting something in 2011 through free agency.
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Don't be silly
I LOVE Millsap.
But suggesting he can replace Boozer as a “more effective scorer” is delusional. He had a monster of a game, but he doesn’t do that on a consistent basis. Not even close.
He’s only ever reached 20 points against LA once before, and averages 8.5 and 4.5 in 24 minutes normally. Upped to the minutes he currently playing that’s 11.3 points and 6 rebounds on a consistent basis.
Hanging your hat on one game is just plain foolish.
I'm with you, Clintonite.
As good as Paul is we have to remember that he’s 4 foot 6. We will still need a big 4.
And if you try and tell me that we can run AK, Fes and Memo at the same time….
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Twitter: @Texas
True that you can't judge a player on one game
this post overall is just an angry rant from a frustrated fan who sees no solution to beating the lakers with the current roster. I think you underestimate Paul Millsap, especially since he is going to make half of what boozer will make next year. He plays better defense than Boozer, outhustles Boozer, scores around 4 pts a game less than Boozer as a starter, rebounds as well as Boozer. Is Millsap the answer to beating the Lakers? No of course not, but an extra 6 million of cap space could help the jazz get someone who will help this offseason.
But what is your defense of boozer, other than the jazz will be worse without him because there is nobody to backup millsap?Boozers lack of effort on defense kills the jazz in the playoffs. Against teams like Denver boozer excels. Not saying much against 3 banged up average big men. Put him against the elite PF’s in the West and he gets schooled (see any of the boozer vs amare matchups this year. The 20 and 10 thing is just really an overrated stat in my book. If boozer averaged a 28 and 10 then I would be more leniant on his defensive liabilities.
So basically I am just saying that it isn’t smart to believe that Boozer will be any different than he is now, since you use that argument all the time on how millsap can’t fill his shoes. And at the price tag boozer will command in the offseason, he just is not worth it.
If you let Boozer walk and Millsap fills his shoes, then against the Lakers, you still have length and height issues.
If you resign Boozer, then you still have length and heighth issues against the Lakers, but you are also $12 million lighter in the wallet.
If Boozer is resigned, the Jazz are going to have to give away good players. already lost Maynor, which might not seem like a big deal, but backup point guard still remains a weak spot on the Jazz and Maynor is going to be one of the best backup point guards in the league for years.
If AK and Deron Williams are as healthy last year as they were this year, the Jazz win as many games last year, despite Carlso missing most of the season.. I looked it up. That’s science.
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WRONG
Boozer isn’t the reason we had to lose Maynor. It was resigning Milsap. Everyone blames it on Boozer but his contract was already on the books. Signing Milsap is what put us over the cap.
I HATE the argument that it’s Boozers fault.
Second, we couldn’t trade Boozer. Did anyone hear any SUBSTANTIAL trades during the season from other teams for his services? I heard plenty of made up, no grounds, rumors that were spoken. If the Office had gotten any decent offer Boozer would have been gone. People were low balling us, that’s just how it was.
Fact remains it was resigning Milsap to a bigger contract that made the F.O try to move players. So at least put the blame where it belongs.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
THat's a fair argument. But I never blamed Boozer for Maynor's loss directly. I said if you resign Boozer, you will lose more assets in the future. Which is true.
But here’s the thing. the Jazz showed they wanted Millsap by matching his offer. Wasn’t his fault.
Boozer said he was opting out. Then he didn’t. So although he was technically on the payroll, and the front office planned as if he would opt in, it was still a change of plans on Boozer’s part. If he didn’t opt in, the Jazz wouldn’t have even entertained signing him at a higher or equal price.
It isn’t Boozer’s fault that the Jazz cut payroll. But it was due to his opting in and Millsap’s contract. And AK’s contract, and Deron’s contract.
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I Can agree with that.
Alot of fans are directly blaming Boozer though and it’s really not his fault. The extension to Okur, Milap’s new contract, etc were the reason.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
THe play that stands out to me was early in Game 2
Millsap has Bynum totally blocked out, they both go vertical and bynum gets the ball.
I think Boozer is a better scorer than Sap, and (hear me out) a better power rebounder (while Millsap is better at getting scrappy rebounds – while admitting that Boozer also collects a lot of easy rebs.)
They’re both simply too short for their positions in this league.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 6, 2010 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions
You mean the plays? Gasol and Odom have made a similar play over Boozer and Millsap about 7 times this series.
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As for this article.
Who are you going to throw money at that’s going to be worth 12-15 million which Boozer isn’t?
Bosh?…… PLEASE, He’s not any better on defense than Boozer is.
Amare?…… PLEASE, He’s a locker room problem, would cost more than Boozer, and his defense isn’t allt hat impressive either. More blocks, but Boozer owns him in steals.
Harrington? …… PLEASE, He’s getting up there in age and he is AWFUL at defense. He’d be cheaper than Boozer but no thanks.
Nowitizki?….. PLEASE, Pipe dream. He’d have to opt ouf his contract, Mavs would throw huge amounts of money at him. He’s the ONLY player i think is significantly better than Boozer but that’s only on offense.
YAO?…. PLEASE, he has to opt out and he’ll lcost WAY more than Boozer, not only that he gets significantly injured. Boozer goes out for muscle strains, Yao goes out cause his whole ankle expolodes.
Camby?….PLEASE. not worth the money and he’s old. Back up center yes…. He can play defense.
Chandler?….. PLEASE. Injuries up the butt. Plus he’d have to Opt out of contract. Not likely.
Jermaine O’Neal?….. PLEASE. Also injury prone, not better than Boozer at defense, would be cheaper though.
Shaq?….. PLEASE. Big Aristotle in Utah? I’d love it but he’s older than Aristotle is! Expensive not worth it as a back up.
Brad Miller?….. PLEASE…. Not even going to touch this one.
Ilgauskas?….. PLEASE….. we all wanted him when he was available this year. The big dude loves cleveland. He’s never leaving.
Wallace?….. PLEASE…. he’s like camby. Old. Getting Older, can’t score like Boozer.
The fact of the Matter is, we could afford Boozer. AK’s contract is ending after next year and we can use his 17 blasted million dollars off the books to make moves. I’d MUCH rather have Boozer and Milsap on the Jazz than just Milsap. I love Milsap too. If that’s not the case than Get a sign and trade for Boozer.
Also, complaining that Boozer sits out for rediculious reasons is retarded. I don’t see you complaining when Fes sits out cause he gets the Flu 50 times a year or has horrible migraines. Or when AK gets injured with a Calf strain, tries to rush his way back and re injures the same dang thing over and over again. Stop, giving everyone else a break but not Boozer.
The guy is a mercenary, but he knows what he’s worth, and the Jazz F.O knows what he’s worth. That’s why they didn’t trade him away for some low balled offer. That’s why they will make him an offer they think is decent and he can decide whether or not he wants to take it.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
How about a backup center? Wouldn't you rather have Brendan Haywood or Marcin Gortat than Boozer right about now? I would.
We don’t need another PF. That’s the point. We have 3 really good ones and so one gets his minutes cut and they other one has to play a lot of minutes at the small forward, which isn’t his best position against most of the other teams.
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No,
But I’d rather have them than Fes, Koufos or Memo
AK47 is a great player, but he’s not an NBA power forward…. Small forward is definitely his best position…. maybe if he put on another 50 kilos it might be a different matter… but having said that, he just doesn’t have the offensive game to play the 4 in the Jazz system..
Haywood
I thought I’d want him on the Jazz. That is until Erik freakin’ Dampier got half his playoff minutes cause he utterly disappeared against a 90-year-old Spurs team.
by Clintonite33 on May 6, 2010 8:15 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I would love Haywood or Gortat
I really would. Gortat signed another contract with the magic though didn’t he? It was close to Milsap’s contract if i Remember.
Haywood is young and has alot of upside. I would love him on the Jazz with Milsap. He would be a starter.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Look at it this way. Millsap + Gortat/Haywood = Boozer's contract. Gotta have extra cash to be able to spend it.
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Can't get Gortat though
He’s signed with the Magic, a big contract like Milsaps. I’m pretty sure anyways.
I don’t think the Mavs will let Haywood leave unless they spend too much on resigning Dirk.
For the Love of the Game
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Mavs may dump a few unexpected players to try and make a better run
Dirk is getting restless (although a great deal of the responsibility for continually failing has to fall on him as well) and Cuban is quick to make gutsy moves to try to make the team better. Haywood has not turned out as well for them as they had hoped. I could easily see the Mavs rebuild this team over the summer.
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Haywood
is young, tall, and has lots of upside. He was the steal of the trade. Not Butler.
IF the Mavs rebuild it’ll be because they cut other players, not Haywood.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
On any other team maybe, but
The Mavs like veteran presence. Haywood would be a good piece to use to bring in another proven contributor (see Jason Kidd over Devin Harris).
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That Jason Kidd
trade was an awful move by the Mavs. However, At somepoint they have to realize that they need to get younger and when it’s as simple as resinging the guy you just traded for…..
Cuban is a moron, but not that big of a moron.
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MonSTARZ forever!
I don't think Cuban is a moron
this is no different from the Jason Kidd trade. If they think they can go for an established center who could turn the team around, they may do it again. They have not made any policy changes to suggest they are ready to start rebuilding with young guys. Dirk is not getting any younger. They want to win now.
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That trade was idiotic.
He traded everything away to win right away with Jason Kidd. A whole bunch of talent with alot of upside. Kidd never delivered and now the Mavs are stuck with a relatively old team. It was an awful trade then and still looks bad now cause he didn’t get what he wanted, except a whole lot older.
Cuban is a moron, just listen to him open his mouth.
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MonSTARZ forever!
Here is a list of the Jazz's needs:
1. More length
2. More athleticism
3. Players who can create their own shot when the occasion arises
4. More shot blocking/altering
5. Backup point guard
6. Three point specialists
Boozer really doesn’t fit any of the Jazz’s needs. So if you let him walk, you have at least a few more million dollars to throw at someone to fill those needs.
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so...
1. Pau
2. Lamar
3. Kobe
4. Bynum
5. Farmar/Brown
6. Fish/Sasha
Where’d you get this formula for success?
(Three point specialist? Don’t we have the best long gunner in the game? We just don’t kick off our drives…maybe we should.)
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 6, 2010 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Length
and athleticism and shot blocking can be addressed in the draft.
Udoh please :).
Three point specialist should be resigning Korver. Maybe we could grab Ray Allen? Michael Redd?
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MonSTARZ forever!
I would love to get ray allen on the roster
I agree that the draft has some really good athletic bigs. My biggest hope is that the jazz use a sign and trade with boozer to move up in the draft and get a guy like favors. But I think that is wishful thinking.
Hey I am not defending any other injury prone guys
Yeah its frustrating that AK is injury prone. So should we resign AK at 12 millions a year because our team just isnt as good with just CJ miles and because I like both of them together. I think everyone on this site would agree that overpaying an injury prone player is not smart. So why should we not look at Boozers track record of Muscle strains which have kept him from playing a full season with the Jazz (except his contract year season). I just don’t think its smart to sign a guy that decided not to play with an oblique strain (which magically disappeared a couple of days later) during the most important game of the season. Especially when it happened to be a match up with Amare Stoudemire who makes boozer look really bad every time they play.
Another point from my end.
Millsap isn’t defensive rebounding much better than Carlos is…
But have you seen the defense Millsap is playing on Odom?
Lamar is killing us on the boards, but he is only averaging 10 points a game when he killed us last year. 4-10 first game and only took 4 shots and 4 free throws in game 2. Three of those 4 shots were on offensive putbacks. Isn’t even getting open to shoot.
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Odom
He may not be producing big, but he keeps coming up huge at the worst times. In game 1 at the 5:09 mark of the 4th Millsap left him to challenge Bryant. Boozer was leaning on Gasol, between him and the basket some 7 feet out on the baseline, keeping him out of position for the board.
The resulting follow-up dunk of Bryant’s missed shot by Odom proved to be a key momentum-changing moment, one of only a handful of key moments Odom has had down the stretch of each game.
by Clintonite33 on May 6, 2010 8:20 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I meant
…Only one of a handful of key moments…
by Clintonite33 on May 6, 2010 8:23 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Fine. But Millsap is guarding him perfectly on the perimeter and in the post. And Millsap is scoring at will against Odom in the paint.
That is a huge matchup advantage we have never had against the Lakers.
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Odom
is having an awful year. The worst of his career I believe. Milsap is playing him well but he ahs also killed us at important times as has already been stated.
I still love mr. milsap though
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
As an unbiased observer,I thought the officiating was a bit in favor to the Lakers.
I was actually waiting for the refs to high five Kobe whenever he made a shot.
I agree, but Booze looks stupid yeling after every time he doesn't get a call.
He probably deserved about 3 or 4 calls he didn’t get, but yelled out like 11 times. In game one on his technical, he had great, clean defense played on him. Not doing himself any favors trying to show the refs up like that.
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Everyone
Yells at the refs when they think they are fouled?
Why should Boozer act any different?
Milsap does it, D-will does it, Everyone does it.
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MonSTARZ forever!
Nobody does it almost every time when there was definitely no foul. I'm sorry, but his complaining is unrivaled in the league.
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Uhhh
You’re saying he complains more than Kobe? Lebron? Melo?
I’m sorry, I don’t believe that for a second. He is far from being “unriveled”
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MonSTARZ forever!
Unrivaled in the way he argues, not how much he's doing. Can you hear everyone yelling on TV?
Boozer is being made fun of now for being ridiculously loud. But more embarrassingly, he isn’t getting fouled very often. He’s yelling cuz he’s frustrated. Not everyone complains a lot when its clearly not a foul. He’s letting it affect his game too.
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lol, I was going to say he was the only one I could see and hear complain
I would consider that unrivaled
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So it's how loud he yells that makes him awful?
The volume of an argument is your point? Wow. I don’t see how Boozer yelling that he believes he got fouled is any worse than Deron running over to the refs and discussing the foul instead of running back on defense or watching Kobe run over to the ref with the pleading look on his face.
You don’t yell when you’re frustrated? I yell all the freakin time when i’m frustrated. On the court, in class, at home. Pretty sure that’s a normal human reaction. Just cause i can’t bellow as loud as Boozer doesn’t mean anything.
I can think of a few people who yell alot. Rasheed Wallace being one, he’s also infamous for what he yells and how many times he gets ejected. Pretty sure that “effects” his game if he can’t play. So I still think that Boozer is not “unrivaled.”
I still don’t see how the volume of the argument, that someone makes about a foul, matters. if you’re complaining like most players do when they think a bad call has happened or no call….. it’s distracting them from the game and all the players do it. I think its not right to single out just Boozer for doing something that alot of the players, if not all of them, are guilty of doing. Just because he is loud.
I sure as heck don’t mind how loud he is after he gets an AND ONE or dunks the ball.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
I also noticed that several times the Jazz players would fake a shot and get the Laker defender to jump into the air and then initiate contact.
Normally, this is called a foul but it seems the officials chose to overlook these types of fouls, at least when the Jazz were shooting.
In all fairness to Boozer...
If he didn’t have to go up against LA’s absurd length, he would be producing night in and night out the same way he does against everyone else. The fact of the matter is he needs to find a way to get it done. Period. Why is it Milsap can do it and Boozer can’t? Dude needs to suck it up and go to work. Why are we all so maddened by his play and are calling for his head? Because he has the skills to get it done and until he figures out how to do it against the Lakers, we will be doomed in the playoffs…
No one's calling for his head. He is what I thought he would be, more or less. But I am calling not to bring him back.
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I believe Boozer is a great player, just not "a Candidate"
He has great rebounding skills and offense, but I am just saying that boozer is not the long term answer for the Jazz and he is too expensive for his skill set. I think Millsap can step in and be a solid starter right away, and he has proved he can. But signing boozer wont allow the jazz the flexibility to get an athletic big to help the jazz push further into the playoffs.
Exactly, losing Boozer will not make us better off
It will likely hurt us in some way, but resigning him seriously hinders our ability to progress in the future. Boozer fans don’t like to hear it, but we will never be more than a second round playoff team until we do some rebuilding. This team wont be able to get it done. I don’t see Boozer being able to win a championship (as the main scoring threat) without a Dwight Howard quality center next to him (which would be kinda fun to see BTW).
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Too expensive for his skill set?
Cause Amare’s 17 million, and Bosh’s huge upcoming contract, Tim Duncan’s contract, and Dirk’s Upcoming contract…… all don’t say that demand for good powerforwards is TOTALLY too “expensive” for his skill set.
I see your point about him taking away the Jazz’s flexibility with his contract but it’s far from “too expensive” considering the tier of PF’s he’s in.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Yes. Way too expensive for his skill set.
Amare Stoudemire is huge and long compared to Carlos Boozer. He is flat out dunking on guys. Much more explosive than Boozer. And when he can play the power forward spot, he is a much bigger defender.
Lots of Jazz fans love him, but I wouldn’t pay Chris Bosh one dollar more than $14 million a year. He’s Boozer with longer arms, but his defense is overrated. Gifted scorer, but also doesn’t draw fouls at a high enough rate.
In case you didn’t notice, Tim Duncan is one of the top 5 big men of ALL-TIME and has delivered his team multiple championships and is still putting his team in a position to compete for another title well into his 30s. Pay that guy whatever you have to.
And Nowitzki is an interesting case, because he may end up hampering the Mavs from ever being real contenders again. Cuban’s loyalty to Dirk is going to end up being the achilles heel of that franchise. Wouldn’t trade Nowitzki for Kobe Bryant.
And teams like the Lakers, or Mavs, or Knicks can get away with paying a guy too much money. Same can’t be said for the Jazz. They already did it with AK and they can’t really afford to (unless for some strange reason they can) afford to overpay Boozer. To me, he’s maxed out his contract according to his skill set. As much as AK’s been complained about at times about his contract, is what it will feel like to pay Boozer 14-15 million dollars. The Jazz will be more strapped for cash than they want to be after next season if they do.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Amare is a
Locker room plague. He’s just as big of mercenary as Boozer is. His defense is Not that much better than Boozer. He blocks more shots but Boozer steals more balls. He’s a little more athletic but outside of that I really don’t think he’s worth 17 million and Boozer’s not worth 14 million.
Duncan is old and his game is declining yet he still commands a big contract. That’s all I’m sayin. I’m a huge Duncan fan. That big said and this point in their careers. I’d probably still stick with Boozer over him. A 3 year deal for Boozer makes alot more sense than a 3 year deal for duncan.
Boozer is an upper teir PF. His contract is not “too expensive.” It may be more than the Jazz want to pay but there is no way his skill set is being overpriced.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Err, Bosh was sixth in the league in terms of drawing fouls and led all fours by a mile in that category
Not sure where you’re coming from there.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Wait, what?!
To say Millsap is “getting it done” and Boozer isn’t is ludicrous.
Pts
Boozer 38
Millsap 42
Rebs
Boozer 24
Millsap 20
by Clintonite33 on May 6, 2010 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
exactly
…what I was going to say. they have both been equally effective, at least on the offensive end…and it goes beyond just points and rebounds (FG%, FT%, steals, blocks). for some reason the perception is that Boozer is doing worse. Granted, he is getting his shot blocked more, or maybe blocked more obviously…but it’s unfair to say that Millsap is more effective in this series.
by moneyman memo on May 7, 2010 7:11 AM MDT up reply actions
how much is millsap making
How much is boozer making. that is the problem. millsap is playing to his pay level while boozer is not.
Actually
Millsap out-played his contract in that one game. He has to do that on a consistent basis to be worth Boozer money.
Millsap doesn't need to prove his worth in Boozer money.
Next season Millsap will make half of what Boozer made this season. And that is a key element. It doesn’t matter if Boozer is better than Millsap, which is debatable. the real question is: How much is Carlos Boozer worth to the team in dollars according to his production.
I think the Jazz would be better off taking the value in Boozer’s contract and letting AK thrive at his better position for economic reasons. Then the team can shore up other weaknesses on the team with the saved money. Even if Millsap and AK play lots of minutes next season and Boozer is gone, you can’t say that the PF position will be a weakness for us.
I would gladly welcome Boozer back if he were willing to play for 8 or 9 million a season, but he isn’t going to buy that.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Taking the value in Millsap's contract, not Boozer's I meant.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
It absolutely would be
As it stands now, when AK is healthy (and he’s often not), the Jazz have the deepest 4-spot in the league.
If you go relying strictly on Paul Millsap at 6’8" and hope AK can play 55-60 games with an wildly unreliable Koufos suddenly you have the weakest 4-spot in the league.
why do you keep ignoring that fact that the jazz will have a top ten draft pick to also help at that 4 or 5.
Also if boozer walks, that opens up a spot for the jazz to pick up another big to shore up the PF position. Kevin Oconnor described the reasoning for trading Ronnie Brewer was that the Jazz had a redundancy at the position (think Matthews). Well the Jazz have a redundancy at PF, and the guy who is overplaying for his contract should be the one the jazz stick with. There are just more options for the Jazz if they don’t have Boozers fat contract on the books.
You won't find another Jazz fan who agrees with that hyperbole.
There is an 80% chance that the Jazz are drafting another big, but nonetheless Millsap and AK, even with his health concerns, is a good power forward combo. The Jazz will also be able to sign insurance at the spot, if they don’t draft it for cheap. Guys like Hakim Warrick or Craig Smith can be had for minimum dollars,
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
What about per minute the whole season?
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 7, 2010 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions
It's not as crazy as you're suggesting...
Points:
Boozer has 38 points on 38 shots while Milsap has 42 points on 35 shots. The difference here is 3 possessions. I would sure love to have those possessions back as close as these games have been.
Rebounds: Boozer has been on the court 4 more minutes than Milsap has each game. That is a difference of at least 20 additional rebound opportunities probably more in the range of 25.
Free Throws: Boozer has taken 3 total foul shots meaning he has drawn 2 fouls in total. Milsap has taken 8 free throws drawing four fouls. The point here being we need to get some more fouls on their big men to put them on the bench.
Steals: Milsap has 4 total, Boozer has 1.
Turnovers: Boozer has 5 to Milsap’s 3. Again I would love to have these possessions back.
Blocked Shots: Both have been credited for only one blocked shot each but Boozer has had his shot blocked 8 times compared to Milsap having only 3. There are 5 more possessions I’d love back.
And here is the kicker… Boozer is our starter and like it or not MORE is expected out of him. Milsap, as a bench player, is really outplaying Boozer. The offense runs through Boozer much more often than it does through Milsap so more should be expected of him. In all reality both guys have played well, but Boozer has played better because he is the starter. Plain and simple, it’s fair to ask more from your starters than from your bench.
Paul
has Odom guarding him most of the time.
Boozer has Gasol guarding him most of the time. That right there is a huge disadvantage to Boozer.
Paul is playin like a stud though.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Millsap
Is playing starter minutes. And Boozer is a better passer, one of the best among all bigs in the league this season.
Don't get me wrong
I started out defending Boozer because I think if Utah was playing against any other team than the Lakers, Boozer would be the regular beast that he is.
He is a great passer, but through 2 games Boozer has 8 assists and Milsap has 7. It’s just when Booz matches up with the Lakers he’s not as productive as he usually is and we need him to be to beat them.
Milsap is getting so many minutes because Memo and Andre are out and our 2 big youngins are REALLY struggling this series. When Okur and AK are healthy, Paul typically get less minutes than he is playing right now. All I’m saying is that if Boozer really deserves to be the starter, he needs to not just play as well as Milsap, but better. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. Right now he is getting outplayed by Milsap and that is my beef with him.
I noticed this
What’s been happening is the cutters are not going when Boozer gets the ball in the paint, instead standing around watching like they’re marveling at Gasol. If they’d go the Jazz would have a much better chance to score on a good look instead of only the fruitless tries at the rim on two gigantic defenders or gambling on a long bomb like they have.
P.S. I like the activity in this thread
it’s about time we get some signs of life outside of the game thread (of course, school finals ending may be a big part of that).
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
I think it is the passion of the subject.
I am super confused about Jazz fans’ stand on the Carlos Boozer issue. I think if you polled every avid Jazz fan, the majority of them would say that the Jazz absolutely need Boozer to return next season. I think many would say that the Jazz should offer max or near max money. I also think that 80% of Jazz fans don’t understand the economics behind it or behind the CBA.
The most popular Jazz analysts seem to think we need to have Boozer. The guys on 1320 are gung ho about bringing him back. The guys on 1280 just make fun of him.
But then you go to a game and a good portion of the arena still boo him. Nobody really joins in with the “bring him back” chants.
And I know many smart people on this blog are against bringing Boozer back, and not for any personal, “I don’t like him” reasons. It is a very debatable topic and I know that it gets me riled up. I don’t think you can have a good enough team defense when you have one weak link. I think we need some money down the line. I don’t think Carlos Boozer will ever be the second best player on a championship team.
That is what I believe and it’s fun because many people disagree with that.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
It's a great topic
I hope we get to carry it on for 3 more years…
by Clintonite33 on May 6, 2010 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah if Boozer is resigned, we'll have a lot more time in the offseason to certainly discuss it.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I keep reading this as "resigned"
which I don’t think is the same as “re-signed” – I’m not trying to be petty, just saying that it threw me off a bit through the thread.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on May 7, 2010 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions
You probably can with one weak link
But they almost always have at least 2…. ESPECIALLY when Okur and Boozer are both in together. Okur is a good guy, but I think they made a huge mistake extending him for two more years. Just for the record, i thought that prior to the injury also.
Boozer's defensive footwork is bad enough, that I am convinced you need a very long, athletic man behind him. Not even Millsap is enough.
Although almost all of Millsap’s weak side blocks are on Boozer’s man. But if Boozer teamed up with Dwight Howard, or Tim Duncan, or Andrew Bynum/Pau Gasol or Brook Lopez or even Joakim Noah, it might work out better for him. So in my mind, the Jazz can either get a great defensive center to team with Boozer and let him focus on offense or else play power forwards with much better footwork and employ more of a Cleveland or Houston style defense.
If you don’t know by now that Carlos and Okur can only work defensively against the Rockets and Warriors, then I don’t know what to tell you. Jazz CANNOT move forward with Okur and Carlos as their primary 4 and 5.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Thank you!
That may be the best point made here! History has proven that we can get our 50+ wins with what we have, but when it comes to the playoffs and the game slows down and teams are forced to play more half court defense, the combination of Boozer and Okur cannot get it done.
It’s gets us close, but an NBA cahmpionship will reamin a pipe dream so long as the 4 and 5 position stay the same.
It's a great topic
Especially because i think both sides have an argument to make about him staying or going.
Whether he goes or not isn’t not so much what i’m concerend with. It’s how the people pwho are against him seem to argue that losing him would be the best hting the Jazz could do. Maybe losing his contract would be a good thing. However, it’s never really a “good” thing to lose a person with the talent Booz has…
I think both sides of the coin can safely admit that Boozer is a good PowerForward.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Most of this is spot on.
You are incorrect about the “Boos”. At the first of the season there were obvious “boos”, but as it progressed and Boozer was about the only one worth a damn, they stopped. What you hear now is “Booooooz”. I’m not even joking about this. When you are at the arena you can tell the difference.
by prodigal punk on May 7, 2010 7:21 AM MDT up reply actions
The problem with all these scenarios involving letting Booz walk
is that they are all hinged upon the fact that we get someone good enough in the draft that he contributes immediately. Any other solution that requires the Jazz to improve in 2011-2012 is another year off of DWill’s contract and, depending on his position, another year closer to him bolting for a perceived contender. In a sense the Jazz have to make some moves to show some sort of progress, that may only be winning a few more games and going into the playoffs as a #2 seed, then making the WCF.
As for the economics go, the Miller’s need to do some big time introspection. If they really want to build a contender they are going to have to spend some money. Right now they are paying too much for a 54 win team and the perception of contending. It may be more financially feasible to do spend this offseason with the economy starting to recover, if not maybe they should explore other options to gain the capital. The bottom line is that they have a proven recipe for success, they just don’t have all the right ingredients to do so, and with that success the money will follow. Deron Williams has changed a lot of the perceptions of this franchise and adding success on top of that will sell more tickets and more importantly, more merch.
let's be fair for a minute, guys
I’m not a fan nor am I a hater on Booz, but let’s give the man some credit. He came into the season knowing he was public enemy #1 yet sucked it up and played great basketball all-year, at a caliber that should have earned him an All-Star bid. The knee-jerk response is that he was “playing for a contract”, but this is subjective and does not take away from the fact that he played within the team concept (read “unselfishly”) and his play translated to wins – what more can you ask? I think as Jazz fans we take this kind of attitude for granted on some level; seriously, how many of the other players in this league can you expect this type of focused, block-out-the-distractions, put-on-your-hard-hat behavior from? The big fella gets a tremendous amount of respect from me for being able to display mental fortitude and translate that to performance and wins for the team. Let’s take a moment and liken the situation to something more real-world: envision you have been interviewing for another job while still employed in your current job. You make it to the final round of interviews for the potential new job and it looks like you are all but set to send in a letter of resignation at your current job and move on. So at the next office party you decide, what the heck, I’m going to throw my co-workers and boss under the bus and basically cut ties with them in a public fashion…after all I won’t be working here. Then the next day you find out you didn’t get the other job after all. Uh oh, get that foot out of your mouth, cause it sure tastes foul!
How many of us could come back to work and repair the relationships and feelings that were damaged due to our callous and selfish behavior? Not only that, we have to continue to perform at a high level to justify that we even deserve our job. Imagine the type of actions and performance needed to earn back the trust of your co-workers and boss.
I think this season has been more difficult for Boozer than any of us could ever fathom. Furthermore, he is now embroiled in a playoff series against the one team that he has had the least success against; in other words, he is being thrown into the ring and tested again. And to add insult to injury, I am sure he is trying to block out the family distractions with his younger brother Charles getting arrested and now transferring form Iowa State. Those things would crush just about any other fragile-minded, me-first NBA player.
For those reasons, I give nothing but respect to Carlos Boozer. I actually stood up and cheered for him in Game 2 at one point. Yes, wipe that perplexed look off your face – there was at least one moment where he deserved a “hell yeah!”. I’m actually surprised that nobody has brought it up on SLC Dunk. It was in the 4th quarter when he got into it with Gasol after a foul had been called and they got slapped with double technicals. Now I don’t know what Booz did to get under Gasol’s skin, but I gave Booz a standing O for the ICE-COLD DEATH GLARE and backtalk that he gave Gasol when Gasol started jawing at him and trying to intimidate him. LOVE IT. LET’S SEE MORE OF THAT IN GAME 3.
GO JAZZ
I don't think there is a lot of hate going towards Boozer right now.
I believe we should not bring him back, but I also give props to him for having an amazing season. I do think he should have been an all-star and I recognize that he has actually showed up this post season. These are all great things and he deserves a pat on the back. However, his abilities, regardless of how well they help us in the regular season, will not get us past the lakers in the playoffs. For the past 3 postseasons we have gone in hoping someone else knocks them out for us (except last year when no one really had any hope for advancing).
To be a real contender we need to become the team to beat. We will not be able to do that as currently constituted,as the last couple years have revealed. I have enjoyed having Boozer around the second half of this year, but I am not willing to lose other players or a potential contributing draft pick to keep him around. Regardless of how good he is playing, he does not fit the needs we have for developing a championship contender. This team needs a new look and, unfortunately, we may need to take one step backwards before we can take to steps forwards (and I do recognize that it risks taking one step backwards to take more steps backwards. Sometimes you have to take a risk to get results).
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
Prediction:
If we beat the Lakers, Boozer will stay, somehow someway.
If we lose this round, he will be in Miami, NY, Chicago or wherever, somehow someway.
(Could we sign/trade him for damaged goods in Bogut? I’d swap those two.)
I'll make it coach.
IF we could get Bogut
For Boozer……
I would kneel down and Kiss Kevin O’s feet. That would amazing.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
No way will the Deers swap Boges for Booze
No freakin’ way. Skiles is building a legitimate contender there, and he’s building it around Bogut and Jennings
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
we are building around williams and boozer, fair trade right...
/sarcasm
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
Boozer
Boozer is going to single-handedly win game 4 and prove to all of you that he is the Utah Jazz!
No way in heck
He’s going to take a bigger contract than Boozer will.
For the Love of the Game
MonSTARZ forever!
Big Men Inside
Jake1ar makes good points about the Jazz big 7 footers. As I think back to the Ostertag era, I have to wonder – are soft centers a sign of some mysterious Sloanism or does Jerry just like 7 footers who try 2’ layups instead of slam dunks?
Boozer would not be the problem if Memo played more like a conventional center and less like a 7’ shooting guard. Fess and Kouf are projects and clearly lack the toughness of an Antione Carr or even an Adam Keefe. Neither Booz nor Milsap should be playing the 5 position. The missing link in Utah has always been the center and we all know it. When Malone and Stockton were taking the Jazz to 64-18 seasons they has Greg Ostertag in the middle and the Bulls abused him. Can it be Sloan?
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