My Team, the Way I See It
by Yucca Man on Jun 23, 2010 12:35 AM MDT
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It’s been interesting reading the stuff posted on SLC Dunk the past month or so—all the opining on what the Jazz should do next year. The weirdest thing is when I read stuff that makes me wonder “did you watch the same team I watched last season?” And I wonder how many people think the same thing when they read my ideas.
So, on the last bit before the draft, before the Jazz can really turn the world upside down, I wanted to write about what I saw in that team and what I see in the future:
The Team as a Whole:
They were torture to watch the first two weeks. They improved to just drudgery next two months. Sure, they won more than they lost, and sure the players weren’t terrible, but it wasn’t fun. There were only two things I enjoyed about the team: 1) Deron’s run to his first All-Star game, and 2) the unexpected emergence of Wesley Matthews.
And then January happened. Several of us have written about it (including me), so I don’t want to get into it too much. All I’ll say is this: in January and February the team was better than it had ever been since ’99. Henry Abbot, editor of True Hoops and life-long Blazers fan, raved about the Jazz after his team got destroyed 3 times in two weeks. That’s when you know something good is happening—when fans of the losing team rave about you after getting smacked down.
After AK’s injury, they were still good—but not as good. Even so, they only had two weaknesses: 1) interior presence (particularly defensive, but actually offensive as well) and 2) free throw shooting.
So why were they so good? And why didn’t that translate to a monster post-season run?
Here’s what I saw:
The good:
Passing and team-play like I haven’t seen in a long, long time. Guys making sneaky-strong back-door cuts. Guys going to the hoop with authority—even in traffic. Making the extra pass that turns a good shot into a great shot. Deron spending half the game wandering around the three point line, just watching the other guys do their thing and then making a move or a play only when he was really needed.
The bad:
Interior presence. That’s it. They could have survived their ongoing free-throw fiascos if the interior presence hadn’t been so poor.
The team I saw those last 4 months was a near-elite team whose one major weakness was so huge that when the wrong matchup occurred, they had no hope.
So what does this mean about the offseason and the team going forward?
The Jazz ate people alive with passing, back-door cuts, and going to the hoop with authority despite the defense being there.
Now think of Boozer’s tendencies (I know someone will point out instances otherwise, but I’m talking about tendencies here): he dunked with authority only if there was no defense, otherwise he went for a layup or fade away jumper; when he didn’t have a great shot he went for an very blockable layup or the fade away jumper (not a pass to the back-door cutter); he hung out at the block or rolled to the elbow—he didn’t make cuts.
In other words, Boozer had very little to do with what made the Jazz so good. At the same time he had an enormous part of their one major weakness. His defensive liabilities have been very, very well documented.
That’s why people can say he may have had a good season, but it really affect whether the team did well or not (and I’m not the only one to make that claim). That’s why Clark can post data showing the Jazz were 2 points better with him on the bench—regardless of how more refined his post game is than Millsap’s or AK’s.
That’s why I think the team will be better by just letting him go. That’s why I don’t think replacing him ought to be a big concern. That’s why I think it’s crazy talk to think the Jazz may be out of the playoffs sans Boozer and Memo.
The team I saw looked like it was on the verge of dominating the league despite Boozer, not because of him.
And here’s the most damning statement of all: in all the games Boozer missed during the past 2 seasons, I never missed him. Not once.
Wesley Matthews
After two months of play, the Jazz revealed that according to the statistics they kept internally Wesley Mattews was the best defensive player on the team. And that was before the playoffs, when he got some lessons from Matt Harpring on how to get physical, hard-nosed, and under the opposition's skin.
After two months of play, the Jazz believed Wesley’s offensive production was already equal to that of Ronnie B.’s. And that was before he earned Deron’s complete trust.
And all this happened during his rookie season, when he had to fight and claw to just earn a spot on the team, let alone playing time and respect from a coach and PG hesitant to give them out.
Now here's what's crazy: most wing players make a leap when they turn 25. In other words, we haven't seen the best of Wesley Matthews yet. What is he going to be like, defensively, when playing an entire season with the physical, confident tenacity he showed against Kobe and Melo?*
What's he going to be like offensively when playing an entire season with the confidence and trust that made him a regular 15 to 20-point scoring threat at the end of the last season?
What's he going to be like with a year or more of experience under his belt? And is there any guy on the Jazz more likely to pick up on the savvy and nuances to game-changing levels than Wesley Matthews?
So, yeah: I don't get people pining for a different starting SG. I don't get calling Wesley a good bench player, as if his starting role last season was a cute little fling.
I want him guarding the opponent's best wing for 48 minutes. I mean, what's his ceiling? Best wing defender in the league, plus an efficient 14-16 PPG, plus 100% hard work, plus absolute great teammate, plus coach's favorite? Most teams would kill to have that player. Wesley may be that guy, and I'd rather spend the next two years finding out if he is than putting almost any other player in his starting SG spot.
*Seriously, go watch Wesley in the playoffs again—he pushed Kobe and Melo into some atrocious shots and situations. Kobe just happened to make the shots. Melo came out bruised and frustrated, but still standing—barely. And remember those are the two most refined offensive wings in the league right now. And Wesley was a freaking ROOKIE last year!
AK-47
"The secret to basketball is it's not about basketball."
That quote's from Isaiah Thomas, via Bill Simmons, on how the 88-90 Pistons plowed through 2 championships (and close to 4 straight) even though, on paper, they were the weakest championship teams in the 80's and 90's. Basketball skills matter, but the way a team connects also matters.
And so we get to AK. I know a lot of people get down on him. I know a lot of people think his contract is atrocious, that he's become incredibly mediocre, that he's done nothing but regressed since the All-Star season. My brother and I argue about this all the time. But this is my post, so I get to say how I see him and why.
Besides Deron Williams, AK is the most important guy on the team. And his importance is much, much bigger than a lot of people realize.
Remember the reason the Jazz rocked in January and February? Extra passes? Backdoor cuts? Going to the basket hard? AK was the catalyst to it all. Putting him back in the starting lineup and giving him 36 minutes per game again transformed the Jazz from a mediocre team to one that spent the next 4 months ranked in the top 3 in Hollinger's power rankings.
I mean, I was there. I watched every freaking game. He was the one who came up with the big steals, the big deflections, the big "holy frak!" hammer dunks in traffic, the "good Zeus!" interior passes to Millsap. There was a reason ATMFK! (Andrei to the m&!@#! f%&@$#! Kirilenko!) and AKWSUA (AK will save us all) became almost cliches in the game threads.
Basketball isn't about getting a baker's dozen 20 PPG scorers together. We need to get that into our heads. We need to remember that there was a reason that Bill Russell, all 19 PPG of him, won the MVP in a landslide the same year Wilt scored 50 a game.
And I haven't even gotten into AK's attitude yet. You see, we've got one of the moodiest starts in the league in Deron Williams. Every game, every possession he shifts back and forth from happy, to excited, to sullen, to pissed, to amused, and on and on and on. He just wants to win so much. And I want that from my team's star.
AK's exactly the opposite. Bad call? Good call? Great play? Normal play? Some one screwed up? He's okay. He's having a good time. And as much as I want my team to care as much as Deron and Jerry all the time, there's a lot of value to having one guy who doesn't get fazed by a bad call. AK's attitude was a phenomenal balance to Deron's moodiness.
And I could go on. But just remember how much the team transformed when he was put back in the starting lineup. Remember he can play all 5 positions. Remember his per-36 minutes stats are pretty close to what they were during his All-Star season. Remember he offered to take a pay cut but the player's association doesn't allow that sort of thing. Remember that he's the only truly effective interior defender on the team.
The Jazz have stuck with his huge contract for 5 years now. Why on earth would they trade him now? After finally figuring out how he best fits with the team? After finally working through the kinks in his relationship with Jerry Sloan? After finally earning Deron's trust? When we know he wants to stay here and is willing to take a smaller contract? After seeing how good he makes the team when it's all in sync correctly? When there's only 1 more year left on the contract?
Yeah, I worry about his health. But that's the only thing I worry about.
Honestly, if they traded AK right now for anything less than a top-15 guy I'd be seriously pissed.
This is simple. So damn simple it's ridiculous.
Boozer as a starter: 19 PPG, 11 RBD, atrocious defense, below average hustle
Millsap as a starter: 17 PPG, 10 RBD, tough moderately effective defense, 100% hustle
Playoffs (2010)
Boozer: 19 PPG, 13 RBD in 38 minutes per game (+0 PPG, +2 RBD from regular season stats)
Millsap: 18 PPG, 9 RBD in 32 minutes per game (+7 PPG, +2 RBD from regular season stats)
So Millsap as a starter brings 2 fewer points and 1 fewer rebound as a starter, but better defense, interior presence, and hustle. But when the games matter more Millsap's number jump while Boozer's stay the same. And when battling the Lakers, and their huge front line, Millsap averages went even higher while Boozer's dipped enormously.
The Jazz will not miss one scrap of Boozer's production if/when they let him go. They just won't. Give Paul the keys to the PF spot, and he'll take care of it just fine.
The rest
I could go on, but I'm tired. Deron's becoming a top-5 guy. CJ's awesome trade bait right now. Memo would be better off the bench (as long as the Jazz could get a good center to start in his place Bogut! Bogut! Bogut! —maybe if we all think it over and over again it can somehow happen). A #9 draft pick is great if you're going for the best dude available, but likely to be a tall stiff if you get ridiculously obsessed with getting a big guy. Ronnie P.'s become a much better backup PG than I ever imagined.
But you get the idea.
I really like the team. I think it's on the verge of dominating the league as they are. I think they've got the pieces to get even better with a bit more experience for guys like Wesley and Millsap. If they can just solve this interior presence issue with the right kind of guy for the team.**
And if anyone disagrees with me, let me know. I'd really like to know what you saw when you watched this team last year.
** Interior presence and size are different things. Moses Malone tore the league apart from 79-84 even though he was about 6'9". Ben Wallace ate people alive (even Shaq and Duncan) with his defense even though he was absurdly undersized. It's about presence, not size or wingspan. The Jazz need presence.
All comments are the opinion of the commenter and not necessarily that of SLC Dunk or SB Nation.
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not to take anything away from anyone on SLC Dunk
(as we have great contributors and writers and a great community) but I enjoy your posts more than anyone else’s. of course, it doesn’t hurt that you see the jazz in the same way i do.
i’m now all excited about next season.
a couple of things:
—i can’t wait to see what wesley does next.
—you mentioned henry abbott raving about the jazz when they were at their best in jan-feb. i would like to point out that abbott also said during that stretch that if you watched video of AK and all the things he does on the court, you could make a case for him for MVP. (call me an AK homer and discredit me if you want, but take abbott’s word for it)
as utesfan said on another post, the coaches and AK have finally figured out where and how he is best with the current roster. i can’t wait to see jan-feb played out over an entire season (health permitting, and yes, it is a huge asterisk)
—as for the boozer/millsap stat comparison, i think one more stat needs to be pointed out.
in the LAL series:
boozer: 7 FTA
millsap: 22 FTA (in about 20 less minutes of PT)
say what you want about boozer’s scoring abilities, but shorty millsap was the one taking it inside and being aggressive against the lakers bigs.
—finally, BOGUT! BOGUT! BOGUT!
Thanks for the props.
And it is really nice to see similarly brilliant minds commenting and posting stuff about the Jazz (loved your rant about Mark Jackson as a head coach on your blog the other day, by the way).
UtesFan’s bit about finally figuring out how to use AK is so spot on. After 5 years of trying to put it together and finally getting it right the offer would have to be outrageously good for me to feel happy about giving up AK. Honestly, why go through all that work just to ship him out right when his contract’s going to expire and he’ll resign for less?
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Mostly Agree
I mostly agree on Boozer. He is a great talent on offense but he pads his stats at the expense of the rest of the front line, he benefits from the Sloan system, he demands the ball. Many of DWill’s TOs are forces to Boozer. He unbalances the team and makes them easy to defeat.
I mostly agree on Millsap but he will improve and have a WP48 nearly as good as Boozer but the C will have better numbers with Millsap playing instead of Boozer.
I totally agree on AK. He is over paid but he is very valuable to the team. Much more than most realize. He is the 3rd WP48 over .20 on the team along with DWill and Booz. Millsap is over .20 when he starts.
I mostly agree on Mathews. His shooting improved all year. His defense will improve. However, he is a couple of inches shorter than ideal. The Celtics were able to disrupt Kobe at times and would have won if they had rebounded better. The Jazz can use Mathews and at team effort like the Celtics to defeat Kobe. However, they will have to out rebound LA.
I disagree on Price. His WP48 is still essentially 0. He looked better toward the end of the year and in the playoffs but he was still a 0. He made a lot of high risk spectacular plays and just enough mistakes to off set any positive he brings. Gaines is less spectacular but has a very good WP48. I am not saying Gaines is the answer only that Price is not the answer at PG. Keeping Price to fill seats and as an insurance player is okay but he should not be back up PG.
You will not get Bogut but Beidrins is available. He is not as good but much better than Okur as he has a WP48 of .20+. That would give the Jazz 4 players with a WP48 of .20+. DWill, Millsap, AK and the C. That will come close to recreating a team like DET that won championships. Then if Mathews blossoms, if CJ is replaced or improves his shooting percentage. If the interior D is solved? The Jazz are no longer pretenders.
I completely agree with most of your statements
I too, don’t see Price being a quality back-up PG. I love him as a spark off the bench, and he can play the 2-guard role (though undersized). But he’s not a distributor, and trying to make him that just messes with his game.
Boozer… I’m not a fan of bringing him back (though I wouldn’t be surprised if he is brought back), but I think highly enough of Favors/Cousins that I might (might!) be willing to settle on a Favors/Cousins and Boozer front-court instead of a Millsap and Davis/Udoh front-court. Favors/Cousins give us the size & presence we truly need.
AK… I agree. Top-15 pick, at least. Sadly, I think trying to trade for Bogut would cost AK. (Plus, you have to remember that Bogut’s arm is a wreck right now.) I love what he brings to the table. I also don’t want us to draft a guy that brings back memories of AK (like Aminu) because the last thing we need is another PF playing on the wing and shooting jumpers he’s probably going to miss. (Also, I’d have to seriously consider Brand+2 for AK+9 if it was offered; even if Brand busts… and who’s to say he doesn’t have a Z-Bo type resurrection, especially playing with Deron… you get Favors or Cousins to dominate inside on both ends.) If AK goes though, we’ll miss him. Big time. Even more so if it doesn’t bring back a defensive presence.
Wesley… I want him back. I also think if we can add Xavier Henry or James Anderson, it would give us a wicked good trio at the 2/3 spots with Matthews, Henry & Miles (and AK when he’s not playing the 4 spot). Plus then we’d have a couple of jump-shooters to help overcome the loss of Okur’s offense. And then your perimeter defense would have drastically improved in 2 years, with Matthews and whichever rookie. Can’t complain there.
Millsap… see above. I prefer him to Boozer, but there are trades I’d have to consider with him. The other thing is… maybe its just me… but it seems like you can (try to) run your offense through Boozer, with him sitting at the FT line and taking the entry pass. With Millsap though, you want him close to the hoop, cutting for the pass or getting 2nd-chance points. (I’m not a believer in his jump-shot yet.) Points are points, yes, but there is a slight difference in that Booze spreads the floor a bit more offensively. Not saying that that makes Millsap a bad PF, but I don’t think he’s the offensive force Booze is (yet). Yeah, he makes up for it defensively and with hustle, but it also leaves you short a #2 option offensively (behind Williams). Again, I might be wrong on this… anyone care to disagree? (Please, don’t everyone jump on me at once.)
CJ is great trade-bait… won’t happen though. I think the Jazz are finally happy with the way he’s developing. He needs to learn to attack the hoop a bit more, but he showed signs of getting that near the end of last season, and it really improved his game. He still takes a bad jumper here and there, but I think he’s getting better about knowing when to shoot and when not to. If he can set his feet before he shoots, he’s got an unbelievably smooth stroke. When he rushes it though, you can tell. Sometimes it goes in anyways, but you don’t want him taking those type of shots.
Okur… I agree, he’s better off the bench. I’d rather have him as a back-up 4… but that screws with AK’s position. He’s hurt, so he’s not trade bait either (plus his contract). Like I said, I don’t see Bogut as a viable option… as much as I’d love him on the Jazz.
I am completely for the Jazz drafting BPA… and I don’t think any big available will be BPA. Xavier Henry, Luke Babbitt, Paul George… they are the BPA. I’m still in favor of maybe trading down, adding another pick, and drafting James Anderson. (Or trading up for Favors/Cousins, but lets be realistic.)
If we have another pick, Anderson can be the 2nd pick (for some reason, he’s not high on the draft boards)… use the 1st on a big, be it Cole Aldrich or Hassan Whiteside or Patrick Patterson (a PF though, not a C). Or use the 1st pick on Anderson/Bradley (not a jump-shooter, but a solid defender though undersized) and then use the 2nd one on like Brackins (who doesn’t play in the post) or Lawal or Alabi or Sanders the likes. (Sorry, in case you can’t tell… I’m in love with the draft.)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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And when I say "I too" with regards to Price
I’m agreeing with bugoff
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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Here's how the Bogut thing happens
I’ve already figured it out.
a) Boozer gets offered less money as a FA than he expects (this gives the Jazz power, because Boozer will always follow the money)
b) Jazz propose a sign and trade that gives Boozer significantly higher than what he’s getting in FA offers, but also use all their trade exceptions (and maybe CJ too) to take on all the Bucks’ terrible contracts (and they have some absolute doozies)
c) Bucks GM says “screw it all,” we can’t pass up a 20-10 guy, we desperately need scoring, and we’ll improve more quickly with Boozer and extra cash for second tier FA’s than with Bogut and no extra cash, plus Boozer can teach Jennings all the pick and roll tricks he’s picked up from Deron and Sloan (ha ha)
And what are the odds of all this happening? Like 1/100,000. But teams have made much, much, much worse and more lopsided trades before (Pau for Kwame, KG for Al Jefferson).
I’m just asking we fans try to get some good karma going with outrageously positive thinking. Crazier things have happened.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I agree
I’m new to SLC Dunk, but I have really enjoyed reading what other Jazz fans think. I think you nailed Boozer exactly. To me he looked intimidated against the Lakers in Playoffs. If you watched the way Millsap, and Big Baby in the finals, attacked their big guys you saw that they can be scored on. The way to attack them is to go straight at them and not try to shot fadeaways over them. I also agree on Matthews though you did give Carmelo too much credit. There is no way he is more refined than Wade. I just can’t stand Carmelo so I couldn’t let that go. I agree with what you said about AK, but the problem with AK was the last 2 months of the season. When healthy he does really make us go, but that is like saying when Rasheed Wallace is in shape he is affective. It might be true, but you can’t count on it. I would also love to get Bogut, but that has about as much a chance of happening as us bringing in Kobe and LeBron. Bogut is the franchise center on a playoff team. The Bucks giving him up would be like the Jazz giving DWill up. It isn’t going to happen.
I'm also not a fan of Melo.
I really, really dislike him.
But I do have to say the dude can freaking score. Oh my golly he can score. I think Wade is a better player, but I don’t think Wade has refined scoring skills, footwork, and moves from dunk to 3-pointer the way Melo does.
On the other hand Wade is a thousand times the winner Melo is.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Oh man, that is a whole other post I've been mulling over
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
We'd have to free up space
aka
let Boozer leave
trade AK to a team under the cap
And then fill the roster with cheap guys (undrafted FAs over over-the-hill vets) and hope something clicks.
Deron. Wade. CJ. Millsap. some big
Matthews off the bench.
It’d be interesting to see, at least.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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Great Post.
AK- should stay on the team unless we are offered something great for him. A franchise changing player. I’d be willing to do that.
Matthews- He’s our starting 2 guard. He’s going to be something amazing to watch over the next few seasons. Assuming we keep him.
Millsap- I would trade him to get Favors/Cousins and resign Boozer. Outside of that situation. He’s our starting PF and I’m fine with that.
Price- I love Price. I love everything about him. Even his turnovers, which are usually hustle mistakes. I’m a homer though, I’ve loved him since I got to watch him in college.
Korver- You didn’t mention him, but I think we should keep him. Just to have someone to stretch the floor. We don’t know what Okur can bring. Korver will always be able to stretch the floor.
Draft- Take the Best Player available. Trade up in the first or trade up in the second. I really want Dexter Pittman in the second round… Dude is like a Defensive End in the paint…
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Free agent bigs
Its just a list of guys… something to ponder over should the Jazz go BPA in the draft. (I left of Shaq and a couple other guys just cuz they’re not coming here.)
Tyson Chandler – He has an ETO, don’t know if he’ll use it, but yeah.
Nazr Mohammed – Remember way back when? The Jazz drafted him. Yeah…
Brendan Haywood – Out of our price range, most likely.
Jason Collins – Ugh. But he’s big. And there’s a worse name on the list.
Ben Wallace – He’s not tall. He’s old. He can’t shoot FTs. And he’s a presence defensively.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas – Well, he’s tall. Probably a bench guy now though.
Drew Gooden – More of a PF than a C. Intriguing option behind ‘Sap if cheap.
Joel Anthony – Restricted FA for the Heat, so highly unlikley.
Udonis Haslem – A PF, not a C. Solid rebounder. Probably too expensive.
Kurt Thomas – Aging vet who can still contribute on the boards.
Tony Battie – See: Thomas, Kurt.
Aaron Gray – Restricted FA for the Hornets; done nothing in the league. But young.
Etan Thomas – Is his heart condition fixed?
Matt Bonner – He’s like Mehmet Okur. But cheaper. And not as good.
Jarron Collins – Shoot me now.
Rasho Nesterovic
DJ Mbenga
Johan Petro
Primoz Brezec
Oleksiy Pecherov
I have nothing on the last 5 guys… they don’t play much or anything. (Or didn’t, I guess, is the right word.) They’re all tall. Not really shot-blockers though.
Any names stand out as worth chasing?
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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I'd mull over Chandler
I’ve seen flashes of good presence mixed with a lot of terrible mediocrity (or worse). But I’d think about it. The right kind of guy, with the right kind of attitude can be twice as good under Sloan.
But it has to be the right kind of guy.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Yep
If he’s willing to work under Sloan, he’d be a great fit.
I just don’t know if he’s for it.
Or if he can stay healthy.
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If you're going to get a Center in FA
It has to be Haywood. Maybe a sign and trade with the Mavs for someone?
I dunno. Outside of that, the list isn’t that exciting.
Isn’t Pryzbilla available?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I think Przybilla is under contract
Haywood is too expensive, no way the Jazz can afford him.
S&T… I don’t know if its worth it. What would you be willing to give up?
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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Haywood
Only made 6 million last year. Not only that he’s getting older. He didn’t help the Mavs out as much as everyone though in the playoff run. I think his Stock has dropped a little.
We might be able to grab him for the rest of the MLE. He’d also get a chance to go to a playoff team. Might be willing to do it.
The Mavs are also looking to try and get a first round draft pick. Maybe we could package our second pick and CJ for Haywood. That would give the Mavs two second rounders and a 3 million dollar exception to trade up into the first round.
We can then resign Matthews for part of the MLE, Resign Korver, and still have enough left in the MLE to grab another Vet for cheap.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Well
Haywood + Korver > CJ +55
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Best post / comments of the summer
I almost totally agree with YuccaMan’s assessment of the team. I strongly believe we will have addition by subtraction just by letting Boozer walk.
About free-agents, remember we don’t have any cap space to sign any after we sign Matthews. He is going to require the whole MLE and is worth every cent. Only Chandler (if healthy) is a difference maker anyway. I doubt that is a sign-and-trade possibility.
Bogut is untouchable.
About AK. Keep in mind we overpaid him for so many years… but if we keep him one more, he probably will re-sign with us for quite cheap. I don’t like anyone we can get back for him is a trade anyways (all we would get back is another over-priced player another team is trying to dump… probably with a longer contract). Alot of trade scenario’s vastly overrate his trade value.
I still say we go balls-to-the-walls tomorrow and try to trade up to the #3 and Favors. I would offer three first round picks, the rights to Tomic, CJ and Price. Go get it front-office. Seriously.
The MLE
is 6 million. The Jazz WON"T use the whole 6 million on Matthews unless they have to. You can also spread the MLE amongst different players. So we could use part of it on Matthews and part of it on another Free Agent.
Also I wouldn’t trade Tomic with CJ and Price.
CJ is valuable and Tomic intrigues me. He’s 7’2 and is adding muslce/bulk. He’s got pretty quick feet for a big man as well. If he could make it to the Jazz….. It would be very interesting.
Just my 2 cents
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
0% chance the Jazz can resign Matthews for less then CJ's contract.
About $4mill per. That would leave us $2 mill. Actually expect closer to $5mill, leaving us basically nothing.
I think Tomic would need to be a part of a trade with the Nets. Thats the what the Russian Czar would demand.
Where are you getting those numbers? We can’t give him the Bird exemption but he’s not going to be getting CJ numbers yet. Unless another team throws a contract at him we are in pretty smooth waters.
I’m thinkin more of a 2-3 million. 3 Million being the max. If it goes too far above that let him walk. I love Matthews but there is no way in a blue moon i’m going to be paying him close to 5 million dollars his second year into the pros. He’d be making more than what Tyreke Evans did and Evans is the STAR of the Kings.
You could split the MLE between a decent SG and another position for the kind of money you’re saying we’ll give Matthews.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
4-5 million a year is very reasonable for a starter in this league. And Wes is more important than CJ to the team probably.
The Jazz are going to do what it takes to keep Matthews. That sort of deal would probably make Korver unaffordable though.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I'm with bugoff.
I agreed with everything in this post except the part about Ronnie Price. I think Price’s fantastic hustle and attitude help us turn a blind eye to how bad he can be.
But other than that I agree 100%. I can’t wait for the next year’s team to prove the whole NBA and many Jazz fans wrong. We not only don’t need Boozer, but in a lot of ways, we will be better off not having him.
And Moni beat me to it, but Henry Abbott told David Locke, he thought AK could be mistaken for an MVP. He just makes plays. I am sorry, but I lose respect for Jazz fan’s opinions when they think Boozer is more important to the team than AK. It just simply isn’t true for many many reasons.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
what about cj
First off I really agree with this post. Especially with Boozer and Millsap. I too watched almost every single game this past season and the two seasons before. One guy who finally started to get it at the end of the year was cj miles. I am really looking forward to miles and matthews breaking out. I know we have all waited a long time for cj to finally get it and become the great player we all dreamed of. I am gonna make a bold prediction, and you can hold me to it. But I think cj will eventually become one of the two or three best scorers on the Jazz roster. I told a friend after watching K durant light up the jazz in the epic game in ESA, that I thought cj should be as good as durant. Now obviously Durant is better at this point. But my point was that cj has the same type of skill set as durant (outside shot, long, super athletic)and could really become an allstar player. I think I have talked long enough about cj and will probably get ripped for it.
AKWSUA!!!! I love AK. Just wish he could get through a season without major injury. the Jazz need him to keep the team making the extra pass. AK is twice the man that I will ever be.
As for the draft, I am reluctant about the jazz getting a big since all the good ones will be gone. However, if cole aldrich is what it takes to get boozer out of Utah I am all for it. CAWSUA!!!!
by the way
loved the reference to Bill Simmons book. Aside from the obvious bias against our Jazz, he had some really good insights. I thought his conversation with Isaiah was something every basketball fan should read. That is what this game is all about. Cant wait for next season.
Yes, Simmons' book is fabulous
And despite his biases, I think he does a pretty good job of evaluating players and teams fairly objectively.
He has a few digs on Stockton and Malone, but in the whole his analyses are pretty good, and I don’t have a problem with the spots he gives them in his Pyramid. (Now the spot that he gives to Allen Iverson is a totally different story).
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
He said his placement of Allen Iverson was his biggest mistake of the book.
He has some harsh things to say about Stockton and especially Malone, but when you read his argument about them, you can’t really disagree. Malone came up a little short in big moments. Many players do.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Yes.
The specific things and anecdotes and analogies were a little harsh (particularly about Malone throughout the book), but in the end his placement of them and the why’s were very reasonable I thought.
And even after all the negative things about Stockton, the end of the section about him gives me chills – the part where Simmons writes regretfully about everyone (including him) not feeling and understanding the appreciation they ought to feel for him.
And I can’t get too down on a guy who actively wishes the All-Star games permanently put Stockton as the starting PG (even though Stock’s 49 and retired for 7 years) just because it would make the games a thousand times more enjoyable.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I was up late and got really tired by the time I finished writing about Millsap
Here’s what I think about CJ: possibly the best trade opportunity for the team.
Every year GM’s nearly crap their pants because they’re too excited to give a ridiculous contract to someone who had a good last month + playoffs. Since CJ’s not a FA, they can’t give him a $50 million, 4 year contract—which means the Jazz just may be able to get something really, really good out of him via trade.
I’d pursue a CJ trade really aggressively—not because I want CJ gone, but because it’s very possible he is going to be ridiculously overvalued. He may (just MAY) be enough to move up in the draft.
That said, if nothing comes up I’m fine with that. I do believe he’s finally matured as a player and that Smart CJ is here to stay. I do like the idea of 2nd year Wesley and Smart CJ splitting the wing minutes. But I also know that CJ is more easily replaced than a lot of other guys on the team (particularly at the #9 spot in the draft).
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Alot of good observations in the article, but I disagree with the conclusions. I unerstand all the boozer bashing, u don’t want to see him get a large contract and get injured, or become a 10 and 8 guy. But when the coach and best player are vocal about him returning, the right people, at least, are giving him credit. U don’t give him credit, not because he is as bad as you say, but because u r afraid he might become as bad as u say, think about it.
Actually you're wrong about my opinion of Boozer
I don’t think he’ll turn into an 10 & 8 guy. I think he’ll be a 20-10 guy for the next 3-4 years (and even more points if he ends up in the East). And I worry much more about AK’s health than Boozer’s.
My thing with Boozer is that I honestly believe the Jazz will be better with him gone. Maybe I’m wrong, but I am convinced that it’s true.
They played best in 2008-09 when Boozer was out with the injury. Millsap’s offensive stats as a starter are 95% as good, his defensive stats are better, plus he has defense, toughness, and intangibles. In the Lakers series it was Millsap, not Boozer, who scored in the post and got to the free throw line. All this is why the Jazz were 2 points better when Boozer was sitting last season.
I know you disagree a lot regarding Boozer, but I’d really like to know why. Every game I watched, every relevant statistic about the team’s success (not Boozer’s personal stats), everything I’ve ever seen makes me believe that the Jazz are a better team without him. Even if he averages 25-13 playing for Miami next year.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
it seems that nearly everyone who commented perceives that hustle should be rewarded, even at the expense of perceiving reality. The jazz will struggle with ak and millsap, two elbow players, who is going to pound the rock for the jazz if boozer leaves, so i don’t get the boozer bashing, the reality and the record will show, the jazz are worse without boozer. as far as mathews improving, he’s a great player with alot of effort, without effort how good would he be.
What is the Jazz record when boozer doesn't play?
Pretty sure some of the posts aren’t just Boozer bashing…(although I am pretty sure all of mine are. I will Bash him day and night) But since we always consider boozer a great player based on his statistics, why can’t we criticize him with them too. Clark has posted some stats that show he brings the team down by 2 points per game when he is on the court. Boozer is great at getting his points and his rebounds. The only problem is he takes too many shots and his defense is non existent. Nobody gives millsap credit for the way he plays. He has never let the Jazz down when asked to take a starting role. Don’t underestimate him.
Actually, here's the most damning bit about Boozer
What does it take to truly push a team to become champions? Well, let’s listen to the people who really know: (I’m talking about coaches like Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Chuck Daly, Red Auerbach, and Gregg Popovich; I’m talking about players like Larry Bird, Isaiah Thomas, Bill Russell, John Havlicek, Tim Duncan, Scottie Pippen, Bill Walton, etc.):
All players must (they absolutely MUST) sacrifice personal achievement, stats, and desires for the team’s greater good.
(The only two who seem to think otherwise are Michael Jordan and Kobe-but I think we can agree Boozer isn’t the second coming of either of them).
Will Boozer sacrifice playing time for someone else? Will Boozer sacrifice his starting position if it’s in the best interest of the team? Will Boozer let someone else get the rebound? (the more I think about this, the more I think it’s 1000x more important than I would have ever assumed) Will Boozer sacrifice his shots if it’s in the team’s interest to get everyone else more involved? Will Boozer sacrifice his offensive role to focus on defense?
No. No. No. No. And no.
Now who on the team has done these things? AK (it was painful, but he’s learned to sacrifice beautifully), Millsap (nobody has willingly given up more), Memo (remember when he abandoned his entire offensive game to guard Yao in 2006?), Deron (was never happier than last January and February when he gave up running everything on the team to let the other guys do their thing), Wesley (he was bummed about the Ronnie B. trade even though he was the biggest beneficiary), KK (never complained that CJ got more minutes), CJ (never complained that Wesley started in front of him).
When you look the team this way, and when you look at how Boozer plays, what other players say about him (remember the comments during the Denver series that Boozer won’t let anyone else get rebounds-it was said in a good natured way, but it’s telling), and look at what Boozer himself has said (he’s a starter period being the absolute most damning example)—Boozer suddenly reminds me of Sesame Street: “One of these guys is not like the others.”
Now think back to all the sages I mentioned earlier: they all agree (and have multiple championships to verify their opinions) that you CANNOT win when a player will not sacrifice.
Maybe Boozer is the best option for post play. Maybe he deserves the number of shots he gets. Fine. But he has to be willing to make the sacrifice anyway—even if it ultimately isn’t asked for.
Boozer will not. His teammates have made comments about it (always in jest, never with frustration, never with animosity, but still). And Boozer himself has said he will not.
I believe that’s why, even with all the talent the Jazz have, they have never earned homecourt advantage with Boozer for the playoffs. Something’s holding them back.
I believe it’s Boozer’s selfishness.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
This is a hard thing to understand because Boozer was such a great teammate this season.
He said the right things, he got along with teammates, he used “we” when he needed to. He made the extra pass for most of the season.
But there is a underlying idea of this sacrifice. I think not being willing to commit on help defense is hanging your teammate out to dry. Yelling at your teammate to go grab a rebound, rather than diving for or going for a ball is a sign of selfishness.
The fact that we all are surprised when Boozer hits the floor for a loose ball says something. So he has been a great teammate, and I am sure that Carlos is a good guy behind the scenes. he’s nice and gragarious. But you can’t play winning basketball when a player refuses to exert more effort. Playing defense is a mental thing. It takes toughness and a desire above all else. Boozer doesn’t have it.
Offensively, he needs to draw a lot more fouls if he is going to improve his efficiency.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Yes, yes, yes
He’s not a terrible guy. He’s always seemed to get along with people just fine-including his teammates. It’s not the kind of selfishness we usually associate with the word. I’d rather hang out with Boozer than Dennis Rodman any day. But Rodman played the game in a way that made the team better (except when he was on the Spurs-he was a world-class prick of a teammate then).
For whatever reason, Boozer just seems unable to play basketball the ideal, unselfish way.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
since when is hustle not worth rewarding in real life?
during the playoffs, it was millsap that “pounded the rock” while boozer settled for jump shots and got blocked. millsap got to the line three times as often as boozer despite being even more undersized…doesn’t that tell you something?
not sure what your last comment (“without effort how good would he be”) that’s like saying without his left hand how good would boozer be or without his passing how good would deron be.
i for one (and yes, this is just me) aren’t afraid that boozer might become as bad as i think he can be. i see him for what he is, and i don’t think it’s worth 10+ mill/year.
you think you might be wrong for thinking we’d be better with out boozer, so you have at least one thought that makes sense.
At least I don't claim omniscience, eh?
But seriously, why do you see Boozer’s place so differently?
I’ve spouted stats, anecdotes, and I could go on and on and on. The commenters can do the same. We don’t just blindly dislike Boozer — it comes from watching the Jazz play, interpreting stats, etc.
So what is it you see differently? What do you see that we’re all missing?
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Boozer does his job pounding the rock. to break it down, he has great footwork, and he can finish with either hand, he has a pretty dependable midrange jumper, he’s a really good rebounder; defensively, he is good enough at his position to not be a liability. He’s consistent, an olympian, two time allstar, and the starting pwfwd for a team that has gone to the wcf, 2nd round, first round, 2nd. U can’t blame the way the Jazz team as whole has played against the Lakers on Boozer, because U can’t say that Boozer didn’t try to attack the rim and do his job, ya, if he doesn’t get his job done the whole thing kind of falls apart, so instead of replacing him because of that, why don’t the Jazz make it easier for him to get his job done,
get a defensive center, and a guy like hayward might make a difference too.
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