Portland Trailblazers Are Finalizing Offer Sheet To Wesley Matthews
by Basketball John on Jul 10, 2010 2:11 PM MDT
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PrintThe Blazers offered their full midlevel exception in a frontloaded contract that includes a $9.2 million payday in the first year in hopes it would be too expensive for the Jazz to match and keep Matthews, the source said.
From Siler,
Wesley Mathews' agent, Lance Young, says Blazers are finalizing offer sheet, expected to be completed today.
tribjazz
tribjazz
Word is Matthews offer from Portland is going to be five years and $25 million. That's unconfirmed but what the Jazz are bracing for.tribjazz
tribjazz
It will be interesting to find out what the terms of the deal are and if Portland is sticking it to the Jazz again. If it is, really the Jazz have no one to blame but themselves for not getting an offer done earlier.
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Here we go again...
You’d think that Jazz brass would know by know that the “wait and see what the market is” approach doesn’t work.
Seems the Jazz are content to see other free agents sign and take the leftovers that nobody wanted for cheaper, OR… maybe do nothing at all because of this “two year plan” KOC supposedly has. So far the plan is crap.
lol.... and agreed
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"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
from Siler via twitter
Word is Matthews offer from Portland is going to be five years and $25 million. That’s unconfirmed but what the Jazz are bracing for.
I wish we had gotten our own deal with him done earlier, but if that's what the offer is, I think it's worth it
Korver got $5 million per year. Wesley is arguably better now, and certainly has more upside and a brighter future. Plus, for depth’s sake, we just can’t afford to lose him. We have to match.
Don't you think
that OMSW would want to see what others had to offer, regardless of what the Jazz put on the table? I don’t think this is a fault of the FO.
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, he probably did want to get a feel of his value to other teams
But I doubt the FO was as proactive on the Matthews front as they could have been. Obviously we don’t know everything that goes on there, but they’ve been dead silent. I would at least like to hear that they had made a valid offer to him before now.
If
KOC gives matthews an offer. He has more leverage with other teams. Which hurts the Jazz more. If we offer 5 million to him, Portland comes back and offers 6.5 million. Then teh jazz are forced to match that and bid against themselves.
Letting Portland make the first offer makes it so Matthews has no leverage and helps the jazz in the long run.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
That's a good point
I really doubt the Blazers would have upped the offer that high, though. The higher they bid, the more they risk actually getting him, and while he’d surely be an asset to their team, they’d be wildly overpaying if he’s just going to be their backup SG. It just seems like a fair offer from him made early on in the process may have been enough to get him locked up for a little less money.
It's true
It’s basically a poker game.
The Jazz screwed themselves over a few years ago with harpring cause they ended up bidding against themselves and paid him like 2+ million more than they would have had to.
Just trying to call people’s bluffs.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Again
I don’t think Wesley accepts anything from the Jazz until he sees what the market has to offer. Good business by him IMO.
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions
That was max for portland
Last year they were under the cap. This year the offer is the full mid level exception.
That also happened to be the max the jazz could offer as an non-bird free agent. AKA league average.
It is reported that is what he asked for from the Jazz and they told him to go test it.
So the only difference is he proved his market value and not the jazz will have to pay 9.5 million of it up front if they match.
They have to pay 9.5 upfront, but the bonus should be spread out over the course of the contract, so only $6 million should go against the cap.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
This isn't such a bad thing.
It shows what Matthews is worth on the market.
I’m a little surprised at the length of the contract but not really the price. I think most of us were expect 4-5 million per year.
This could work int he Jazz’s favor though. in 5 years Matthews could be one of the best defensive SGs in teh game and the Jazz would have him as a starter for only 5 million.
Just don’t everyone freak out yet…
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Gotta agree with FTL
just imagine in 5 years from now his game could really excell and he might become a great Defender
With all the negative that's been happening (maybe perceived), it's good to see the positive
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
i like wes as much as the next guy but...
5 years and $25 million for a SECOND YEAR PLAYER is absurd.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 10, 2010 2:35 PM MDT reply actions
Unless
he turns out to be amazing. A decent SG that’s only 26-27 at 5 million a year in 4 years? That’s a steal.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Jazz have to do it at this point.
Front-load the contract with the large amount of trade exceptions this year. Heck, spend Boozer’s entire $13.2 million this year on Matthews and then have a 4/11.8 million contract going forward.
And really, $5 million per year is not a crippling amount of money. Like has been said, Korver is getting $5 million per year and Matthews is much younger and may be the better overall player.
Unless I am mistaken
the jazz CAN’T spend the trade exemption on Matthews (or any of their own FA’s). It has to be used on a player or players acquired in a TRADE. Hence, the name trade exemption.
The most the Jazz can offer Wes is the full MLE.
You're probably right.
I don’t know how these contract things work in the NBA.
But hey, $5 million still isn’t too terrible.
For
a second year player its kinda bad but for a starter 3-4 years down the road it’s dang good.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Perfect, then.
This team isn’t a title contender because we don’t have a big man who can bang with the Lakers (and various other teams). But in 3-4 years, after we find that big man, this contract is going to be wonderful.
Exactly.
Just like how Millsap’s contract is helping us out now.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Exactly.
The most ANY team can offer him is the full MLE. So we don’t have to worry much about that.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I agreed with you
a couple of weeks ago, but if you’re gonna overpay, then at least overpay on a young guy who has untapped potential and not on a guy leaving his prime. I think it’s a bit steep but I don’t see another option Utah has after Korver, Reddick, and Morrow are all locked up and it’s tough enough for Utah to attract free agents as it is.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Not too absurd if he's going to be your starter
This is absurd for the Blazers, though. Unless they would play him as an undersized SF, they’re offering a second-year player 5 years and $25 million to play 10 minutes per game behind Brandon Roy. They’re clearly just trying to stick it to us again.
how does O'Connor allow this to happen?
why not work out a deal with wes before it got this far.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 10, 2010 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions
as i said up above:
If KOC gives matthews an offer. He has more leverage with other teams. Which hurts the Jazz more. If we offer 5 million to him, Portland comes back and offers 6.5 million. Then teh jazz are forced to match that and bid against themselves.
Letting Portland make the first offer makes it so Matthews has no leverage and helps the jazz in the long run.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
So you're saying KOC knows what he's doing?
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions
As crazy as it sounds… he kinda does at the moment. At least with how he is handeling Matthews.
He’s doing what he did with Millsap and that worked out in our favor.
Not much you can do when Portland is being douche bags and trying to jack all our players.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Hopefully
Next year when we have the money to jack Greg Oden from them by giving him an offer they can’t match!
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Just what I was thinking. I can't wait to offer Oden 14 million next season.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Why?
He’s had bad luck with injuries early but when he has got to play he’s been a force in the paint.
The dude is going to be a good center and he’s still really young.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
The injuries just make me nervous.
You’re right, he could be amazing. Everyone thought he would be when he went #1. But I just don’t know if he can make it through a season. We’ve already had a guy that only played about 60% of his games while making $12 mil a year. I’d be afraid it’d happen to us again.
True
but if he can stay healthy this year… and recover nicely. I think it’d be worth a shot for a young center who can be a force in the paint.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
the most wes could sign for is the full mid-level
portland can’t offer 6.5m.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 10, 2010 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
FortheLove makes a good point though. If the Jazz lock him up for 5 years, 5 million a year and we don't hear of other offers,
then we are all wondering why the Jazz didn’t offer lower to Matthews. It sucks, because Portland sucks. But it is what it is.
The Brightside: We will have resolution with Wesley Matthews in the next 7 days. The Jazz will wait the full 7 to screw Portland though.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Does waiting 7 days
keep our hands tied on making other moves?
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions
No
but it makes it so that Portland can’t offer their MLE to other free agents while one is extended to Matthews. Or at least most of it.
So the jazz will wait and cause them to miss out on other Free agents.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Of all the free agents left,
Matthews might be the one that is the most interesting, at least to me. It does mean there’s no confidence in upper management over Rudy Fernandez, and they’re looking for a solid backup, even if they have to overpay to get it.
Thanks for letting me stop by see the perspective of Jazz fans. I think the Jazz probably match, but it will make for an interesting off-season for us if you don’t.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Love your
Sig. Rousseau is one of my favorites.
Always nice to have bloggers from other teams drop in as long as they don’t troll.
Pleas stop trying to steal our FA’s though :D
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Thanks.
I’m not a big fan of Rousseau, but that line is the truth.
Don’t know what we can do about the free agent thing. At least we’re trying for the restricted ones, so you can match and keep. Unlike those dang Bulls. :p
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Most of us
On SLCdunk are glad Boozer is gone. A little sad about Korver but expected it. Matthews is whome most of us are coveting :).
Hopefully we return the favor next year for Oden….wink
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Don't know if Oden gets that far.
Blazers have until Oct 31st to extend him. I expect they will, but probably around October 20th.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
But if you do, turn about is fair play.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Turn About?
Uh, Blazersedge, it’s the Blazers who are eligible to reap what they have sown two years in a row now by offering front-loaded contracts to Utah’s restricted free agents. When Utah gets it’s revenge it will be sweet :)
No because the Jazz will already know what they are doing with that money, matching or not.
But like FTL said, Portland can’t offer any of their MLE until we match or not.
We can still go out and use all our exceptions to sign other players during the 7 days.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
If this is the offer,
what kind of money do the Jazz have left to work with?
I think only
their biannual exception and then of course their trade exceptions. Also, I think they can offer Fes whatever because they have his bird rights, so that doesn’t cut into any of the exceptions (bi annual or mid-level if any is left).
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions
It'll take
Most of the MLE. Which is 6 million I believe. It gives us one million of that to offer someone and the biannual which is a 2 year 2 million dollar contract.
I think we still have some cap space in order to offer another couple million as well
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Aren't
the jazz over the cap? I know not into the tax, but they’re pretty close to the cap if not over it.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions
No
The cap is 2 million more than expected. 58 million instead of 56 million. The Jazz I believe have like 1-2 million left to work with under the cap.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I don't know what Portland is thinking
What is KOC decides to let Wes walk. Portland will be playing their back-up shooting guard 5mil a year. Its not like Wes is going to get much PT over there. How long does Brandon Roy have on his contract?
And they could trade Rudy Fernandez for whatever they can get.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Isn't that what he would be with the Jazz?
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
As much as it would suck
I almost wish KOC wouldn’t match the offer so Portland could pay the guy 5 mil a year to sit on the bench!!
Portland has a serious problem with the Jazz and I think the only solution is an all out bar room brawl!! Utah fans vs Portland fans!! Haha or Sloan vs. Whover the hell coaches Portland
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 10, 2010 3:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
This might just open the door a little more
towards getting Greg Oden.
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah but
Do we really want his fragile body as our center? He is the most injury prone dude out there.
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 10, 2010 3:13 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Cause
he got hurt two years in a row?
he could bounce back and have an awesome 10+ year career.
When he has played he’s been a very very good center. Easily worth the risk.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Dude…when a big 7ft guy has bad knee problems you have to be concerned. He hasn’t played enough to warrant a big contract. I don’t want anything to do with him. From Boozer to AK to Okur….I’m tired of injuries.
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 10, 2010 3:22 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Injuries happen...
it’s a professional sport. You’re not going to be able to grab a player who won’t ever get injured. It can happen to anyone.
You don’t win championships without taking risks…. Whyw ouldn’t you take a risk on a 22 year old 7 foot center who has the possibility of being a top 5 center?
I’d easily pay him more than Boozer, AK, or Memo.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Oden has been pretty good in his limited time on the court.
But his injuries are a serious concern. Depending on the contract size, I would definitely be willing to take the risk. Andrew Bynum has the same issues, but he still makes an impact with limited playing time.
Both guys have all world potential.
When Bynum plays, the Lakers just manhandle everyone on the inside The glimpses seen of Oden so far are of a rusty new to the NBA player. Their injuries are magnified because they happened so early in their respective careers. If you have a chance to steal Oden from us you have to do it. Guys that size are rare and are game changers.
by eclecticspider on Jul 10, 2010 8:16 PM MDT up reply actions
You'd pay a guy who's only played 82 games total in a possible three seasons over 16 million dollars?
How does that help us?
I meant BOozer's contract with the jazz
which was 13 mill. Not what he’s getting now.
Oden has the possibility to be a great center. Everyone is clamoring and whining for the jazz to sign a great center…. So why wouldn’t you take a shot on Oden?
He’s only 22…… and he’s been solid when he hasn’t been injured. He’s not going to blow at a knee every other year for his entire career….hopefully.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Because we want a great center
not a guy that could be great, but has an even better shot of getting hurt 1 more time and having to retire or something.
He’s not worth $13 million, or anything close to that, at this moment
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
The stigma around Oden is interesting.
He’s had injury issues, but the jury’s still out on it. Two major injuries in three years looks bad, but I don’t think we have enough data points to determine that as of yet. “Injury prone” is a far better historical term than a predictive term.
I feel that way too
=)
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Portland made a mistake
with having Oden gain all that weight. They should of had him play with his college weight maybe thats why he’s getting injured so much. Not very much big men like shaq can carry that much weight and run up and down the court
Good point.
Also, after his first injury, he worked is butt off the get back in shape. He has a great work ethic and has just been unlucky so far. I really hope he comes back and has a great career, regardless of where that may be.
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
I guess
but I’d rather have matthews.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Portland
is stupid if they think we won’t match that
Yeah, but then there's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjhlvbbPn30
Kidding, kidding, I hope we match the offer, that clip just cracks me up.
With the way the Jazz have been this off-season
Why not? I think they feel its worth a shot. Logic would say that the Jazz will match. Of course, sometimes logic escapes KOC. We will see.
They will match. Or else we are starting Ronnie Price at the 2.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I love Brewer
but this scares me. We’ve already been down this road
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
As a Portland fan, I'm hoping that you guys will match.
The only other possibility is that the Blazers are making a big deal in which they trade a wing or two, and Matthews is a replacement.
He’s a nice role player, but I’m not certain that he’s worth five million a year, particularly in a reserve role.
For a back up
for you guys. 5 million a year is a stretch. For the Jazz. 5 million a year for a starting SG is worth it.
So I would imagine the Jazz will match.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Maybe in this market, he's worth five million.
But he doesn’t really excel at anything. Works hard defensively, but his technique against Carmelo in the playoffs was pretty sloppy, as he used his hands a lot. A lot of borderline fouls that weren’t called. Nice shooter, but his lack of a great handle would be exposed in systems more dependent on it; in this way, Utah is really the best fit for him.
Now, in this crazy NBA world, where Rudy Gay gets max, Matthews is likely worth five million. I think I’d rather have Ronnie Brewer, though.
No
Matthews is younger and is a MUCH better outside shooter than Brewer. Matthews was only a rookie and for the defense he played on Melo and Kobe it was pretty dang good. Matthews isn’t good at any one thing but he’s not bad at anything either.
He’ll end up being a defensive force in a few years. I’m fine with gambling on him.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I don't think you have seen enough of his game. He is the closest thing this league has to another Bruce Bowen, in all the good ways.
He was a rookie. Look at how much better Batum got in one year.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
He's like Bowen..
…without the the jump kicks to the face, or kicking CP3 in the groin.
I have succeeded in convincing myself Matthews will become a star in this league
If he continues to improve each year, this contract will become a steal
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
If we lose Wes
Chances of making the playoffs are slim to none.
by KaBar6 on Jul 10, 2010 3:21 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Doom and Gloom much?
I hardly think our season success henges on Matthews as much as I love him.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
The way the west has been...
I’d say having Matthews in would add a couple more wins to the Jazz’s record, and the way the west has been for the last few years, a few wins makes a big difference.
We'd
obviously resign another SG or trade for one if we didn’t resign Matthews. having the Full MLE to offer a contrac to someone would be enough to get a decent SG.
I’d rather resign matthews. I just don’t like the doom and gloom attitude.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Well
Losing a second starter who is a sophomore with a lot of potential is gut wrenching.
by KaBar6 on Jul 10, 2010 3:35 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
but far from being the end of the Jazz’s playoff chances.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
So sick of Portland...
…and KOC letting them set the prices for his own players. O’Connor seems to have ZERO initiative.
Umm
KOC letting portland set prices is a good thing. Read the comments up above it explains why.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
not necessarily
when there’s a team out there like Portland who loves to screw with other teams by offering outrageously front loaded contracts to restricted FA’s, ESPECIALLY from teams in their division. Also, name one thing that KOC has done since May that hasn’t been a disappointment…
He let
Boozer walk…. and didn’t over pay him.
He drafted Hayward who looks like a solid NBA player. He drafted Evans who looks like with some added weight could be an NBA player.
He let Portland offer Matthews a contract to see how much he was worth.
Milsap’s front loaded contract worked in our favor. We are now getting Millsap at like 6+ a year for a starting PF…..
We could be getting a starting SG for 5 Million a year for 5 years……. that’s not a bad deal at all.
This offseason hasn’t been that bad man.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Hayward looks like a solid NBA player?
based on what? one summer league game?
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 10, 2010 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not going to judge O'Connor
until the end of the offseason.
He will be able to use the trade exceptions, if the Millers are willing to spend.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 10, 2010 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
5 summer league games
i’ve been very impressed with him. His maturity compared toe veryone else on the court spoke loads about him. He wasn’t out there to pad his stats and play one man basketball. He actually tried to help the TEAM.
He was a man amongst boys on the Jazz summer league team.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I'm not saying he's better at this point...
But he certainly had a better summer and looked more NBA ready than Evan Turner.
wes matthews looked dreadful in summer league
it means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 10, 2010 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Correction
Matthews shot dreadfully.
There’s a difference. His basketball IQ, his tenacity, his work ethic, all this impressed the Jazz enough to bring him to fall training camp.
What has been astounding to me about Hayward has been all these things, plus his passing, his ball-handling, his footwork, his team-play, his IQ, his rebounding. Hayward has the tools. Watch and see.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I agree, He excelled in all the important areas.
played team ball, made smart moves, good fg% and ft%… He has all the signs of becoming something good in our system. Granted, you never know what is going to happen.
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
he failed
to get a decent sign and trade for Boozer (trade exception is something, but it’s not a guaranteed asset)
to move up in the draft for a better player, Hayward was good in summer league, but that’s hardly an indication of how well a player will do in the NBA.
to offer Matthews a decent contract that he would have accepted without exploring Portland or any other team’s offers.
he may not be sitting on his but and doing nothing, but he’s definitely not getting anything done either.
We all talking about screwing Portland over
come nxt season but the Jazz havent done shit this offseason.
They tried to move up
Multiple teams tried and NO ONE was able to. That’s not on KOC.
The trade exception for BOozer and letting Boozer walk was one of the best things of this offseason. We lost his contract and we can use it to get a player of worth back in return but don’t have to take back garbage players or huge contracts from another team like we would have otherwise in a S&T for Boozer.
If we offer matthews a contract before another team it gives matthews leverage dude. We could be getting him for 5 million. If we had offered him more he could have made a case that he was worth 6 million dollars a year and the whole MLE!!!
He’s getting alot done. We’ll have matthews resigned to a reasonable contract within a week. He’ll be locked up for 5 + years.
We have cap space and the biannual left. This offseason keeps looking better and better.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
All I can say is I hope you're right
But to me this offseason is looking more and more like the beginning of the end for this team.
Really?
Because Boozer and KK are gone? Didn’t you expect them to be gone?
Right now the off-season feels gloomy because we haven’t added anything yet. I know I’ve felt it.
But then I remind myself that I expected Boozer and KK to be gone. I was excited for Boozer to be gone. I was fine with no KK (because it meant more development for Wesley and CJ). And then I remember, oh yeah, the team is going to be just fine.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
When we lost Stockton and Malone
We missed the playoffs for what, 2 years? We didn’t lose any players near that caliber this year. The Jazz will be fine!
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Once the Bulls offered $15 million per year, sign and trade possibilities were gone
The only way Boozer would go that route is if the teams with cap space were offering less than he had hoped for.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
We really don't have enough to evaluate most of these points...
I’m glad the Jazz didn’t overpay for Boozer when they are paying Millsap starter money. I’d see what they do with the exception before calling this a failure.
Hayward did have a good summer. No, its not an indication of how well he will do, but he did show reason to be optimistic.
Maybe he did offer Matthews. Matthews decided to see what else is out there.
Yeah, certainly in today's market, Wes getting 5mil sounds about right.
Like love said, he really doesn’t have many weaknesses. Just the fact that he was good enough to start for Jerry Sloan as a rookie certainly speaks volumes of his game.
The last Jazz rookie to get more PT than anyone expected was Millsap
Rookie Matthews > Rookie Millsap (though they did, admittedly, have different roles).
That should tell us all a bit of what Matthews could become over the next 2-3 years.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I know I'm still in the minority but
I think we should let him walk. Portland is screwing with us again. It’s time to say have fun riding the bench and cashing your checks. Meanwhile we have all those trade exceptions to go out and get replacements with.
by tyrantking on Jul 10, 2010 3:41 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
So we've resorted to looking forward to next year's FA season.
What is poor Deron doing right now? Salivating over Oden? I doubt it. Plotting his SuperTeam with CP3 and D-Ho.
That’s when KOC will offer Hayward an AK-like contract….
Here’s another theory: Is there some awesome collegiate kid we haven’t heard of that KOC is aiming at the lotto? Sure seems like it.
I'll make it coach.
No
We are simply looking forward to screwing with Portland next year like they’ve screwed with us the past two years.
No one is giving up on this offseason yet…. At least I’m not.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Deron >>>>>>>> human being than LeBron
That alone should give us all a bit of comfort.
3 months ago we all knew 1) Boozer would probably gone, 2) the odds were decent KK was going to be gone, and 3) the Knicks pick was probably going to be somewhere between 7-11 (odds of getting a consensus guaranteed All-Star: fairly low).
Back then, 3 months ago, did you think next year would be a quick trip to the lottery? Granted, Memo was in the picture then, but Memo didn’t have a great year. He seemed on the down-turn. So, again, did you expect the team was on its way to the lottery and massive rebuilding?
I didn’t then. So I don’t see why I should now.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Everyone who is saying that it was smart to let Portland set the price
That is an incredibly unsophisticated way to negotiate. The Jazz would have been much better making Matthews a fair offer with a deadline to accept. Once that deadline passed, the Jazz should have had a Plan B in place and either signed someone else or used one of the trade exceptions to bring in someone else. That would have told Matthews and his agent and all other teams that the Jazz were prepared to move on. Under that scenario Portland has no incentive to offer Matthews a giant eff you contract. (It still wouldn’t stop us from signing Matthews or matching) Instead we do nothing and Portland gives it to us in the arse again because they know we covet the guy and will match. KOC proved it last year with Millsap. KOC has shown his hand, is a poor negotiator and should be fired.
I don't know if it was smart
But it wasn’t terrible. It’s a bit different than the Millsap situation—matching an overpriced offer won’t put the team into luxury tax territory. And even Millsap’s contract turned out to be pretty good once that first signing bonus was paid. CJ’s contract turned out to be very good for the team. And now Wesley’s doesn’t look bad at all.
Besides, as I look around the league this seems to be the method a lot of GM’s use with their own restricted FA’s. It’s not like KOC’s using some random idea nobody else does.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
It still
gives Matthews more leverage if the Jazz offer. He can go to portland and say this is what the Jazz are sayin I’m worth.
In your scenerio the Jazz only get leverage if they have already signed another SG. If that’s the case Matthews can walk and go to Portland. There aren’t any other SGs in free agency right now that are better than what Matthews is and for money we can afford without giving up assets.
Your scenerio would likely burn more assets and have us either end up with another Sg or we are right back where we started with Matthews and Portland. Only the matthews has more leverage cause the jazz already previously offered him a contract and still don’t have a SG to make him expendible.
I’d rather play it like this and have Matthews back. IT worked out jsut fine when they did it with Milsap. We now have a starting PF who’s getting less than starter money because Portland front loaded their offer. It’ll work out fine.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
The whole problem with KOC's "strategy"
Is that everyone knows he will match. It’s not a strategy. There is no risk to Portland. None. You have to set your price for an asset and be prepared to walk if the price exceeds what you’re willing to pay. This has nothing to do with Matthews BTW. It has to do with KOC being a known quantity in the NBA.
His
known quantity works though… CJ and Millsap’s contract are great. We retained two players we wanted for a decent price…….
So i don’t see why he needs to change?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
CJ
for the first 2 years of his deal, everyone was calling it a huge mistake.
It wasn’t until mid-way through last season that people finally came around on it.
That’s not KOC doing it right… that’s him risking it and getting way lucky down the road
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Signing
Free agents always is a risk…
Injuries, illness, production, talent. They are all variables that can go either way. So I don’t understand that argument….
He gambled and got it right…. That should be a plus.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I'm just saying
you can’t say his known quantity works.
He gambled, and 3 years later, it finally paid off.
For the first 2 years, it was pretty much a waste
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I wouldn't say a waste.
His contract wasn’t awful. It wasn’t toxic.
He also was learning from the Harpring situation in which we outbidded ourselves…. which didn’t exactly go well either.
I’d say Cj + Millsap > Harpring as far as how he’s manipulated RFAs. He also did pretty well with the whole Boozer RFA.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Well
How the Cavs released him with the idea that he would resign and the jazz swooped in and offered him money they couldn’t afford and he took it.
That RFA situation.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I don't quite agree that KOC has been as awful as many fans think he is
That said, I’d be lying if I told you I wouldn’t love to see Pritchard as our GM.
From Twitter
blazerbanter
#Blazers expected to make official offer today to #Utah_Jazz’s Matthews, source says. Deal won’t be “toxic” but will be front loaded.
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
Which means the team will be in better shape financially next year
than if KOC had offered a typical contract with incremental raises every year. That’s next year, as in when AK’s contract comes off the books.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Agreed.
There is a method to KOC’s madness….
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
And like I said earlier
It’s not like KOC’s the only one who handles restricted FA’s this way (see JJ Reddick).
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I want to see the figures
Portland’s over the cap, so how exactly can they offer a contract like that?
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
5/34 doesn't add up
6/34 does though
by Basketball John on Jul 10, 2010 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions
But aren't 5-year contracts the maximum allowed?
Unless it’s your own FA?
The numbers don’t add up right.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I have to imagine that either it's been misreported
or there’s a sign and trade going on. There’s no way Portland can offer 34 million over five years, as far as I can tell.
Looked at the Blazers roster
I don’t think a S & T is involved. Too weird. But if it was, there are three guys whose contract alone would fit this reported number:
Joel Przybilla
Andre Miller
Greg Oden
No way it would be Miller. That leaves Przybilla — the Jazz got shafted — or Oden — my head would explode with the risk/reward differential.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
It's not Oden, believe me.
He’s a ticket in a pretty big lottery. A big who puts up a 23 PER and the best rebound rate in the league? They aren’t trading him for Wes Matthews.
what the...???
How is that possible? I thought they couldn’t offer more than the full MLE which is 5.7, or 28 million over 5 years. Am I missing something?!
by vizzle07 on Jul 10, 2010 4:58 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Ummm...
What the heck? Lol. Is there a loop hole for a 6th year that only Portland knows about?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Cap experts
If it’s $34M, shouldn’t that be a 6-year deal? They can only offer 5.765 which would be $28M over 5 years. $34M though would be 6 years.
by Basketball John on Jul 10, 2010 4:56 PM MDT reply actions
Blazersedge has a cap expert who should check in soon.
I’ll make sure to link you guys when he breaks it down.
great minds think alike...
Doesn’t make sense.
by vizzle07 on Jul 10, 2010 5:00 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
So are players eligible for 8% annual raises?
If so I get up to 33.4 over 5
by tyrantking on Jul 10, 2010 5:12 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
From Yahoo!
The Blazers offered their full midlevel exception in a frontloaded contract that includes a $9.2 million payday in the first year in hopes it would be too expensive for the Jazz to match and keep Matthews, the source said.
by Basketball John on Jul 10, 2010 5:05 PM MDT reply actions
How are they offering 9.2 million
He could only be offered the MLE max?! what is goin on!?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I think it's the same thing they did with Millsap
And offered a signing bonus.
by Basketball John on Jul 10, 2010 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
It's odd to me that the Jazz let Portland set market value for their players.
But we had cap space last summer, we don’t this summer.
The difference is they were under the cap when they signed Millsap
so they weren’t restricted in the total amount of the contract offered. I really, really don’t get this. It doesn’t make sense.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Nothing makes sense
Because the signing bonus is divided equally into the length of the contract when calculating salary cap figures. The total amount (as far as I understand) can’t be more than $28 million — MLE times 5 years. It doesn’t matter if there’s a signing bonus or not, the total contract can’t be more than the MLE x 5.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Yea
This doesn’t make any sense what so ever…
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I think I figured it out.
Starting at 5.765 million, you get to 5 years/34 million with the standard 8% yearly increase for teams without Bird Rights.
My question
Why the hell is Portland wanting to pay Roy’s backup 9 million dollars!?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Because they know KOC will match and we'll be screwed
by tyrantking on Jul 10, 2010 5:15 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Na
it’ll hurt us this year but in the long run it’ll help. Just like Millsap. However, I am getting tired of this game Portland is playing.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
If there is no basketball reason for this
then I am seriously pissed. Of course I was pissed last year, because their offer on Millsap didn’t make basketball sense either. Not this bad, but it was still pretty dumb.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Except
now the Blazers can trade their other wings. There were rumors of a Andre Miller trade before too… if they work that out, Roy runs the point, and Matthews starts beside him
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that's my question too.
Seriously, Blazer folks. Help me understand this in any way that doesn’t make you giant assholes. We know better than anyone that Wesley is a good player, but he’s not $9.2M good, and you already have Roy playing 40 minutes a game. Explain to me in basketball terms how this makes any sense. Otherwise I deem you The Enemy and wish for your slow and painful deaths.
(… I don’t really wish that. I’m just frustrated.)
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
On the plus side
They won’t have any money to offer Oden an extension unless they shed payroll…. Then we could get our revenge…..
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Paul Allen has cancer and has shown little restraint in giving players long contracts.
If Oden performs, he will get paid well in Portland.
My only theory to offer you.
Is that the Blazers have a trade in the works that involves Batum or Fernandez, meaning Matthews would get a lot of the time at the three. You could also play Roy at point lineups that the team has talked about for a while.
Roy as PG
I can see this happening. And then Matthews next to him…
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Well
Unless it was an erroneous report, it is what it is. What does KOC do? I wonder how Blazers fans feel about Portland offering this much to Matthews to play maybe 10 – 15 min per game.
This really pisses me off
But I say Jazz should match. They won’t go into luxury tax because of it. They won’t find a better SG to replace Wesley at this point. Then they can focus on using TE’s for a center. Otherwise we’ll have too much to replace.
If Wesley goes, on top of Boozer and KK, then I’m concerned about next year.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
This will
put us closer to the Lux Tax once we have to sign other players.
We might end up with D-leaguers fillin out the roster.
I dunno. they really put us in a weird situation.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Not too badly
Luxury tax estimate is $70 million. Jazz w/o Wesley are at $55 million. This year’s official salary chomp is still $5.7 million. That puts the Jazz at about $61 million. They still have the bi-annual exception. That puts them at $63 million. $7 million left before hitting luxury tax.
That’s still enough to fill out a roster and only go into luxury tax if they can use the Boozer TE on someone really good.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Or the Jazz may be able to get creative
Sign another FA for $3 million this week, putting them at the cap. THEN use the MLE on Wesley. THEN use the bi-annual exception. THEN sign Fes for league minimum. And we’re back to where we were, all without going into luxury tax territory.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
That's true
I keep having to remind myself that the caps are 2 million more than expected and Boozer/KK are gone.
You’re right on.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
D-leaguers on our roster?!
Don’t be absurd! ;)
by vizzle07 on Jul 10, 2010 6:03 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Really?
tribjazz
To put Matthews deal in perspective, he’ll make more next season than 2009 No. 1 overall pick Blake Griffin.
To be truthful (though not very nice) Wes had a better year than Blake did last year.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Unrelated, but made me laugh....
Nick Collison is now one of my favorite NBA players… His tweet shortly after the Lebron James debacle…
“DECISION 11’ has officially begun!!! 365 days until Nick Collison announces his free agent decision in a one hour special live on PBS!!!”
Circle your calenders, Jazz fans!
by brock38 on Jul 10, 2010 5:37 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Cracks me up
I wonder what other players thought about LeBron’s crap. I think they should be insulted, but what do I know.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I'm so torn right now
I guess as a Jazz fan, I’m just not used to this much potential turnover. That is a steep price for a second year player. Yet, Wes has so much potential. He plays strong defense. He can shoot. He hustles. I still say match it. Use the MLE.
it's a lot of dough
but just like Millsap’s contract it is worth matching
Portland is just jealous of our players
also
i hope we have a plan to bring back ronnie brewer
i would think we could get him for cheap, great player to have off the nbench
It feels pricey to pay this to Matthews
but then I remember than the MLE is typically used by teams for an aging vet who ends up laying like a partially animated corpse.
Under that comparison, this could be the best use of a MLE ever.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Hollinger on twitter
$32.7 million
http://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/18230831595
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Talked to Matthews’ agent, Lance Young. The contract is the most frontloaded it could be under CBA rules. It’s Millsap, the sequel.
http://twitter.com/tribjazz/status/18230697764
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Yeah
unless there is an Andre Miller trade or something happening, this is confusing to me
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It would signal the end of Fernandez's time in Portland, to be sure.
And then Matthews would sop up the 2/3 minutes.
But if you move Fernandez, whoever you get back creates a logjam elsewhere.
Unless you go after like
a future pick, or a guy in Europe ATM, or something like that.
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The org doesn't seem too invested in draft picks at the moment.
Maybe Matthews is a more effective player than Rudy’s last season, but Rudy’s rookie year was very good. I lean toward him for pennies over Matthews for $9.2 million. Very odd deal from Portland’s end.
I would agree with that
of course, I’m not quite sure what Portland might have lined up
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BINGO!!!
As a blazer fan watching the team draft players and target free agents it appears very likely that the blazers are planning a trade involving one or more guards. Jared Bayless, Rudy Fernandez, Armand Johnson, Elliot Williams, Brandon Roy, and Andre Miller…and possibly Wes Matthews equals SEVEN guards.
I know we must wait a month or so to trade Matthews but he may become part of a planned trade, or as the replacement for another to-be-traded guard.
He'd be a back-up in Portland
and for the Jazz, both CJ & Matthews would be starting
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Cablinasian is a Blazers guy
He’s talking about Blazers paying that much for a guy playing 10 minutes behind Roy. He dislikes the offer from the Blazers perspective.
Of course he’s not a backup for us. And yes, OMSW > CJ. Even when Smart CJ showed up last year.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
At that money, I think you'd have to consider letting him go
and letting Portland’s offer back-fire on them.
Of course, then you realize that Korver, Redick & Morrow are all gone too. How would you replace Matthews?
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Looking at it
Only the first year is bad. The rest of it is pretty average for a starting SG in the league. I think we are forced to match it. I’m ok with that. Just pissed at portland for being dicks.
For the Love of the Game
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
We'll see though
if Portland has a trade lined up, this makes perfect sense for them
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The timing is intriguing
The day after Korver leaves for the Bulls is the day Paul Millsap 2.0 happens.
That's why I think Jazz should match.
They’re not going to find a replacement. Plus only the 1st year is bad. It will be a lot like the Millsap deal, except we won’t be dealing with a PF logjam, luxury tax, crummy team chemistry for 2 months, etc.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I'm in the same boat.
Want to paddle together? Lol
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If I'm a Jazz fan (I'm not) I would match the offer as well.
You gave two of the important reasons why: No good replacement and not a bad contract in the long run if Matthews is as good as we all think. Another important reason is that you don’t want to see Matthews in a Blazer uniform. He really brings some critical elements to the Blazers that will make things difficult for opposing teams. Of most importance, he is a good defender and when playing with other defensive minded Blazers creates a scary proposition:
The Blazers could go with:
Jared Bayless
Wes Matthews
Nicolas Batum
Marcus Camby
Greg Oden or Joel Przybilla (when healthy)
I apologize for the detailed Blazer post (probably not appreciated on this board) but wanting to illustrate the value of Matthews to the Blazers.
I guess we could look at Ronnie Brewer
and go back to SGs that can’t hit jumpers…
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that happens to be..
the best athlete that’s ever put on a jazz uniform
Sure
but when Boozer isn’t there drawing DTs, its going to be harder for him to get free in the paint for lay-ups/dunks. Plus Koufosenko won’t make their guys leave the paint like Okur does
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All I know is
This is all Lebron James’s Fault!
by brock38 on Jul 10, 2010 5:57 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Cablisian
You don’t have to worry because the Jazz will match this deal i’m 99.99% sure..because like Jerry said “it’s tough to get good players”
I'd to have Ronnie Brewer Back
Would there be any way for the Jazz to put Brewer and Wes on the floor at the same time? How would he do at a 3?
No thanks
Brewer can’t shoot from the outside.
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But CJ
is better than he is. At least lately. I’d rather have him starting. Brewer as a back up SF or SG i wouldn’t hate if he came cheap. Not as a starte rthough.
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
But he can finish and was one of the Jazz's better defensive players
I just think maybe the Jazz could be very tough defensively with Brewer and Wes. If Haywood can shoot like he is capable of, that will take pressure off of Brewer to hit shots.
If Wes comes back
I don’t see Brewer returning.
You’d have Wes, CJ & Hayward (+ Ronnie P) at the 2, and
CJ, Hayward & AK at the 3
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AK will spend most of his time at the 4. So, you can have Wes and CJ at the 2, and Hayward and Brewer at the 3.
AK will NOT spend most of his time at the 4
Millsap’s going to play 36 minutes. That leaves 12. AK will play 36 minutes. Most of his time will be at the SF
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Two FA names to consider maybe
Roger Mason
Shannon Brown
Other than them (and MAYBE Ronnie Brewer), the guys are either too expensive, or already gone
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Shannon
Brown is available? I thought only Fisher and Farmar were FA’s this year.
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
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Brown opted out of his contract
he’ll probably resign, but you never know.
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I doubt he'd leave LA
We’d have to throw more money at him than LA. Probably close to Matthews money….
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Just got back from the mall
with my wife and daughter to this bullshit. I hate Portland.
What are you all thinking? Should Utah match? I’m starting to question why I care so much about the Jazz this is just annoying.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:11 PM MDT reply actions
Yes
the first year is bad but that’s about it.
It’s alot like Millsaps contract only without the toxic asset in it.
No other Sgs on the market better than Matthews anyways.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I agree -- we HAVE to match it.
And I think Portland is banking on us matching. I just can’t see them really wanting Matthews bad enough to pay him that much.
KOC
must have murdered one of Paul Allen’s puppies or maybe one of KOC’s son’s impregnated one of Paul Allen’s daughters or something. I can’t imagine why Portland keeps effing around with Utah.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
How close
would the Jazz come to the luxury tax if they sign Wesley and resign Fes and don’t sign anybody else?
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions
We'd have
5-6 million I think left.
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I think we'd be below the tax
we’d also have a horribly pathetic bench.
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You haven't factored in Hayward's contract or our roster holds, which put us at more like $61 million before adding
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Here's my source:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Hoopdata is generally considered a little more accurate.
http://www.hoopdata.com/salaries/UTH.aspx
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Pretty much same data
Subtract Fes, Jeffers, Yatta, and Wesley from the data (about $3.5 million)—because those contracts are not officially on the books, and that data for Wesley is overwritten with the new contract.
Then add about $1.5 million for Hayward. That puts the Jazz at about $55 million. $61 million if they match Matthews. $9 million below the luxury tax.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Its off by a few million though.
We are at 56.5 without considering Matthews, Fes or Hayward. So matching Wes actually takes us to about 63, Fes will add another million, Hayward is 1.9 and the the other 4 spots we would need to fill come to 2 million total. So we are actually looking at 68 million tied up, if we match Matthews.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I love Matthews
but it scares me. We throw this money his way, and…
well, we still need a starting center.
And a back-up… well, everything but SF (and maybe PF, depending on AK).
If the Jazz want to win this year, they need to improve the bench. A lot.
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I agree
It basically makes the Harpring and Ronnie Brewer trade exceptions worthless because using them would put Utah over the luxury tax and Boozer’s wouldn’t be able to be used until after the season is over.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:16 PM MDT up reply actions
We aren't
and we’d have capr room and assets to get other players… I don’t think we’d be that bad off man…
Pg: Williams, Price, Gaines
Sg: Matthews, Hayward
Sf: CJ, ?
Pf: Millsap, AK, ?
C: Fes, Memo, Koof
We’d have the Biannual and a couple million before the luxary tax/trade assets to play with to sign two more players… Not that bad…
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Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Price & Gaines don't do it for me.
Koufosenko… its a stretch. Especially before Okur returns.
Our bench would be AK & Hayward
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And why is that bad?
You only need 8-9 players. 1 will be a backup PG, and I can’t see getting anyone awesome who is willing to play 8 min. per game. So there’s 8. That leaves a center. With the team still $9 million under the luxury tax line.
Only thing worrisome is AK’s injury history.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Exactly.
Injury history. Plus I’m hoping CJ has learned, but if he returns to CJ of the past…
And by the time KOC starts looking at centers, everyone will be signed
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I already see 0 centers worth signing as a FA
So I’m not worried. I think any decent center will come via a TE. So that will happen regardless of whether the Jazz still have the MLE.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I still like Mahinmi
maybe not starter material just yet, but he could get there if given time
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You
can get him for the Biannual pretty easily…
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Man, Portland hates us...
What did we do?
Well, maybe we’ll get a better pick in the 2011 lottery.
Siler on Twitter
http://twitter.com/tribjazz/status/18232082870
It says something that other agents are calling Jazz, describing Matthews offer as absurd and offering their clients as alternate options.
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I wonder who's offering.
This could be interesting if some intriguing name comes up
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Howard
Eisley…. bahaha.
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MonSTARZ forever!
I'd also like to see
Because I can’t think of anyone better than Matthews off the top of my head.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Or
Tracy Mcgrady.
For the Love of the Game
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Wesley's offer
will be as much as JJ Reddick’s and more than Kyle Korver’s right? Does that seem right?
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:19 PM MDT reply actions
The only
difference is JJ is older… Outisde of that I don’t think this offer is all that absurd… Matthews is just young but he started as a rookie…. He is a starter.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Reddick
is not old though. I think it’s a little crazy that Wesley will get just as much as Reddick, but that may be just me.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I meant older
than matthews.
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Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Wesley > KK
Wesley > JJ
They were shooters. Mediocre defenders.
Wesley was a good shooter. Better all-around scorer. Great defender. Plus 2-3 years from reaching his peak.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
True
I may be overrating JJ, but it’s still crazy that he got such a big offer. Good for him. I wish Utah somehow would have negotiated with him during this year and signed him to a long term contract but whatever.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
that’s what I thought. And Morrow was like 3/12 I think. Weird market this year.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Goodbye Wesley
Is what I would say. I think the Jazz will Keep him though.
I think to say he has “great upside” is kind of ridiculous. He seems like he will have potential to be about what he is now. He is a solid (not elite) defender (mostly just solid because of a lack of height, length, and athleticism). Offensively he can either drive (average driver of the basketball) or hit a set shot three. He has no mid range game. He is small for a 2 guard, and a well below average ball handler. He is tough though.
Not worth the Money. I would rather see Hayward or Miles at the 2 for that price. I do like Wes though… I would let Portland have him.
by davidthecomposer on Jul 10, 2010 6:30 PM MDT reply actions
Agreed
Wesley is 24. He’s mostly a finished product.
by tyrantking on Jul 10, 2010 6:43 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Because players never improve after their rookie seasons?
I’ve looked up a lot of stats, and most swing-men reach their peak at 25—including a noticeable leap from 24-25. (PG’s and Post players peak at 27-28). So we’re looking at Wesley’s peak (most likely) in 2 years.
Wade’s small for a 2-guard. Joe Dumars was ridiculously small for a 2-guard. Ray Allen’s the same height (All shorter than Wesley). And elite defenders don’t need athleticism, wingspan, leaping ability, or any of the other Tremendous Upside Potential nonsense. Ask Bruce Bowen and Ben Wallace.
Saying Wesley has great potential is based on simple things: Rookie Welsey > Rookie Millsap (think about that). Rookies improve over the next couple of years. As a rookie he was the Jazz best defender. Rookies improve over the next couple of years. As a rookie, Wesley pushed Carmelo and Kobe into some Gawd-awful shots and situations during the playoffs (sure Kobe hit them all, but still they were terrible shots with no angles for outlet passes). Rookies improve. 23-year-old swingmen improve.
I say he’s worth it.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Maybe
the Jazz should make an offer to Josh Childress if they dont match Wesley’s offer?
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:42 PM MDT reply actions
Ton of interest in him
it’s going to be a high price.
And ATL has history of matching KOC on RFAs (1 out of 1… they matched on Jason Terry). Probably irrelevant, but just saying
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His
Contract will be more than Matthews. No thanks.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
OK
I was wondering if he could be had for the same or less than Wesley’s contract. If not then the Jazz can’t sign him anyways.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Siler's tweet
It’s obviously something they have to talk about with Greg Miller, but I think the Jazz’s instant reaction is not to match on Matthews.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 6:58 PM MDT reply actions
So is that based on sources
Or is that based on what Siler guesses? It’s written more like a guess than something based on sources.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
He later
quotes KOC so I’m guessing sources.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Siler
Reporting that initial reaction from Jazz is not to match…. I’m a little worried now…. Who do you get to play SG?
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MonSTARZ forever!
Ronnie Brewer?
I really don’t know. Matt Barnes? I hate Portland.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd love matt barnes
But as a back up. He can’t start.
For the Love of the Game
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"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I can't believe this...
if they don’t match, I have lost all faith in this front office.
If they don't match
its because they think they can find another UDFA, plug him in, and have him succeed.
I’m not big on KOC, but his 2nd round drafting and ability to find UDFAs is worth noting.
It is the one area where I really trust him… he’ll find someone.
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Sure
the Jazz aren’t exactly overflowing in money like Paul Allen & the Blazers
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Here's kind of a list of lower tier players still available
Josh Howard, Wizards; Nate Robinson, Celtics; Brad Miller, Bulls; Tracy McGrady, Knicks; Ronnie Brewer, Grizzlies; Shannon Brown, Lakers; Craig Smith, Clippers; Roger Mason, Spurs; Earl Watson, Pacers; Eddie House, Knicks; Larry Hughes, Bobcats; Antoine Wright, Raptors; Raja Bell, Warriors; Bobby Simmons, Nets; Rasual Butler, Clippers; Kwame Brown, Pistons; Joe Alexander, Bulls; Oleksiy Pecherov, Timberwolves; Javaris Crittenton, Wizards; Ian Mahinmi, Spurs; J.R. Giddens, Knicks; Sergio Rodriguez, Knicks; Hilton Armstrong, Rockets ; Adam Morrison, Lakers; Josh Boone, Nets; Sasha Pavlovic, Timberwolves
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions
This list
makes me think that if the Jazz don’t match then the Jazz just shouldn’t use their midlevel on only one player unless they get someone like Childress. Another guy out there is Richard Jefferson, but I’m not a big fan.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry, but that list mostly sucks
I like Raja. I like Ronnie, but Wesley > Ronnie. I can’t see a guy there that I like more than Wesley. I can’t see anyone there that makes the Jazz better than if they match Wesley’s offer.
If they don’t match I’ll throw a mild fit.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
BTW, I'm a little pissed at Wes.
I mean, I get that it’s an offer that would be hard to refuse…
But the fact is, he’d be in the D-League if the Jazz hadn’t taken a chance on him. And we made him a starter, got him exposure, and let him show what he can do. And now he’s saying, “Thanks for the opportunity guys. Oh, and eff you.”
Just how I feel.
If you were an undrafted rookie, played well, and a team believed in you enough to offer you a large deal.
It’d be very hard not to take it and hope that your original team matches.
It's a business
and Wes made the best business decision. No fault to him. Doesn’t mean that it doesn’t still suck.
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Why does it seem like every time a player brings up the word "business decision"
They are trying to defend a decision they have made that appears un-classy. I realize it’s a lot of money, but home team discounts are a classy thing to do, especially considering the circumstances. Jazz took a chance on him, 25 mil is plenty for how long he has been in the league and his skill level. This is just taking advantage of the teams lack of depth in the position. This is obviously not a basketball decision, it is a money decision. He will get more playing time and a better opportunity here. Like Siler said on Twitter, he wants Jazz playing time and Blazer money. This is not a very classy move. Just because it is the best business decision doesn’t make it right.
P.S. The Jazz is more than just a business to the people paying for tickets. This business is nothing without fans. In Utah especially, we have emotional attachments to this team. Telling us it is a business does not make us feel any better about the situation.
P.P.S. My frustration is not aimed at any specific person, just the term business decision in general. Time for Pro-atheletes to stop thinking about themselves and think about the people paying to keep the “business” profitable.
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this is very off topic
but your avatar is freaking awesome!
by hoodieNation on Jul 10, 2010 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Just had a thought...
…Maybe Portland is targeting D-Will!!?? If he gets discouraged enough (like the Jazz fan base) then offer some good pieces back to Utah the Blazers can reunite D-Will and Wes in the Northwest? (This is 100% tongue-in-cheek).
If I were an undrafted rookie and some team took a chance on me
I would be extremely grateful and want to do right by them.
And yeah, It’d be very hard.
So you would pass on 30+ million gauranteed money?
I think not.
by BigIslandBound on Jul 10, 2010 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions
In exchange for 28 million guaranteed money?
Yeah, I think I would. Who knows though. I’m just pissed.
I agree with you 100%
I was afraid to say it because I love the guy and it was easier to focus my frustration on the Jazz (and Blazers) FO, but I am a bit mad at him. Loyalty in the NBA is virtually extinct. This isn’t anything near the level of what LeBenedict Arnold did to Cleveland, but it’s still less than admirable. I mean, it’s absolutely his decision to do what he wants and to seek out the best deal for himself, but he does seem to have forgetten that he wouldn’t be in a position to be making nearly this much if the Jazz hadn’t taken a chance on him last year. Just frustrating all around.
After Boozer and Koerver it seems you'd be accustomed to this.
I would be pissed too. No one likes to be rejected. That’s why Portland fans think Hedo Turkey-glu is the devil…for something the rest of the NBA has long forgotten.
What about moving CJ back to the 2?
He guarded Kobe in the playoffs. He is at least as athletic as Wes.
Hayward looks like a 2 in my eyes as well, I think he has quick enough feet. Again, he is as athletic as Matthews if not more.
In that case the Jazz could pick up a big 3?… trade exception?
by davidthecomposer on Jul 10, 2010 7:17 PM MDT reply actions
I would Say CJ is not as good of a defender... but he does handle the ball better and is longer.
by davidthecomposer on Jul 10, 2010 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I could see this happening
depending who the Jazz go after.
Sloan’s system is such, I think, that the 2 & 3 are interchangeable
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They are pretty interchangeable.
And I think CJ would do fine. Not as well, but fine.
But now, without Wesley, their lineup looks really thin. The only bench player worth note would be Hayward. Yikes.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
And I only saw 1 or 2 guys on that impromptu free agent list above that I'd want playing major minutes for the Jazz
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
This I agree with
maybe someone from the SL team?
Nichols looked alright, as did Paul Harris
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I agree that CJ isn't as good defensively
From what I saw last year he is a much more dynamic offensive player. I mean that he can beat you more ways…
I agree with the depth as well. For it to work the Jazz would need to use a trade exception (and find somebody to trade with) for a guy like Al Harrington, for example.
A guy Like Harrington is good because He can play 3 or 4 kind of like AK, so with all those players together (AK, Hayward, free agent like Harrington,) You would have some combinations to work with. Of course signing/trading for a guy like that will not be easy
by davidthecomposer on Jul 10, 2010 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions
True
luckily, trade exceptions are one thing we have plenty of right now
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and you would still need a rotation big
by davidthecomposer on Jul 10, 2010 7:28 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm still liking Joel Anthony
or Ian Mahinmi. I doubt the Spurs resign Mahinmi, Miami might try to keep Anthony around
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I agree.
I posted the list to show that if the Jazz dont match, they shouldn’t really pay anybody that much money.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 10, 2010 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Ross is killing it.
tribjazz: I remember standing by Wes’ locker and hearing an awful lot about being good to the Jazz as the one team that believed in him.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
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Unrelated to this, and I know its been mentioned before
I’m really going to miss Siler when he leaves…
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can I just say
If I was Wes, I would have signed that contract too. He is set financially for the rest of his life. I can’t blame hm.
by davidthecomposer on Jul 10, 2010 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed.
And with the threat of a lockout, you take all the money you can get right now.
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Yeah, so much for loyalty...
Having said that, I can’t blame him for taking the same type of offer Millsap got last year. Business is business, I guess. If he gotten hurt, the Jazz would have cut him off.
Siler:
Remember that Jazz didn’t have to carry Matthews out of training camp with 13 players already under contract and mega luxury-tax bill.
And if they hadn’t, he would be playing for $20,000 a year in the D-League.
if we match
yes, next year will probably suck as we wont have the dough to get many other players. but think of the 2 years after. with those 2 front loaded contracts, sap and wes will be underpaid, and AK’s contract will be off the books. the jazz will have a real chance to be stacked if they right the moves during those years.
depends on
if/when we use our trade exceptions. The whole upshot of using those is to acquire more salary without giving it in return. Decision will be, use trade exceptions now to acquire players (thus locking us down again financially), or let them expire, ride out the year and AK’s contract, and move forward from there.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
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under the current circumstances, i’d be tempted to let the trade exemptions expire and match wes. the way i see it, while the blazers have tried to screw us, they’ve actually given us an opportunity. the corollary to this is if the millers are willing to go over the salary cap. then we could have the best of both words!
I'd rather let him walk.
That keeps our options open. We can either sign someone with the MLE or let that cap space be absorbed by the contract of whoever we pick up with Harprings trade exception.
Ps KOC is looking stupider by the second for not turning the harpring trade exception into a player when free agency first started and trams were scrambling to clear cap space.
by tyrantking on Jul 10, 2010 8:59 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Options for who?
There isn’t really anyone left that is much better than Matthews to offer the MLE to….
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If we're looking at Matthews in a vacuum, just at who he is as a player...
…I don’t think he’s worth 5 years, $32.7 million. But when you look at things in context, given the Jazz’s general lack of depth, dearth of other options among the remaining affordable free agents, and the fact that we just lost two important rotation players to Chicago, I think he is worth that much to us.
Regarding this:
It’s obviously something they have to talk about with Greg Miller, but I think the Jazz’s instant reaction is not to match on Matthews.
I hope/think that may truly be just the “instant reaction” (hell, that was mine too), but that once the FO sits down and looks at the other options, they’ll realize that Matthews is the best they could get for the MLE anyway, and thus will hopefully match it.
It's a smart, but completely a-hole move by the Blazers. I hate them for it.
The thing about it is that money isn’t an issue for Paul Allen, so he sticks it to us. If we match, then we are in financial straights. If we don’t match, he just uses his big bag of monies. I believe in Karma. I believe there is a reason the Blazers are going backwards.
With that said, this is a grayer issue to me than the Millsap signing. Millsap was an absolute, yes for me. Matthews is a yes, then a maybe, then a maybe it would be better to look elsewhere. It doesn’t kill our cap space this season and we could get by, but if we could find an alternative…
I love the idea of bring Ronnie Brewer back. I still think he is a starter in this league. I would be really happy if they resigned Matthews and brought Brewer back. We are really strapped for shooting guards, is the big problem.
The only alternative would be to try to use a trade exception for a real long term shooting guard. But I am not seeing many options other than Richard Hamilton and that wouldn’t be smart. Guy is making 12.5 a year for the next three years. we may be forced to match and it wouldn’t kill us, but it would hurt.
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I don't understand why it's evil for the Blazers to offer Matthews a contract,
It’s Travis Outlaw money, and I like Matthews more than Outlaw. Not out of the realm of reason.
Why frontload the contract? No reason, but to hurt another franchise and be a pest.
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The only real reason to front-load
is to hope the Jazz don’t match.
(Assuming this is all about basketball, and not screwing over rival teams)
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It's not about Basketball OR Screwing over Rival Teams
It’s both. Be realistic now…The Blazers are saying, “I feel so dirty for putting the Jazz in a tough spot financially, but we just LOVE West Matthews.” Nor are they saying, “Wes Matthews kinda sucks but we really LOVE sticking it to the Jazz.” It’s that they really like Wes Matthews and they don’t mind the advantage gained by potentially putting the Jazz in a bind.
If I’m a Jazz fan I hate the fact that my team is vulnerable to this sort of thing. If I’m a Blazer fan, well, I’m kind of a smug bastard… :)
True
my point is that it’s not 1 or the other.
The Blazers are trying to improve their team… if they think Wes does that, they go after him.
And they have to give him a front-loaded contract, because otherwise they miss out on him for sure.
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its not bad karma to try and better your team
Yes it sucks for Utah to be put in this situation, but think of it from Portland’s point of view. It’s not like FAs flock to rainy Oregon. We have to buy our players and way over pay for them. Doing this two years in a row to the same team is pretty lame though.
by hoodieNation on Jul 10, 2010 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions
That's just the thing:
You can’t tell me that the fact that the free agents are from the Jazz, didn’t influence this decision. Matthews and Millsap weren’t the most available players this year or last. You can’t tell me that you ever expected the Jazz to not match Millsap. And Millsap didn’t make a lot of sense for the Blazers last year. It was a screw you move. It is smart, but it is also not in Portland’s best interest to sign these players to deals, especially to frontload them. It’s completely, a “I can do it, so I will”, not a “it’s in our best interest to make this move.”
The front loaded offers are what tell me that they would rather stick it to the Jazz than just acquire a player.
Like I said, its a smart move, but it’s also sort of low. I haven’t heard of any team frontloading a contract to discourage a team from matching in years. And the Blazers do it two years in a row. Makes me wonder.
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Its because if they don't front-load it
the Jazz will match, no questions asked.
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Millsap made no sense to me...
they had Oden and Aldridge.
Matthews makes a bit more sense though
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exactly
how else is a team supposed to get a good RFA without making it a front loaded contract thats hard to match?
by hoodieNation on Jul 11, 2010 5:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Ask the Nets and Raptors. they will land Morrow and Kleiza without frontloading.
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Wasn't Kleiza's contract front-loaded?
As for Morrow… GS is run by morons. How do you not match that (unless you’re planning on keeping the Curry/Monta backcourt and think it can co-exist for 40+ minutes/night)
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if either of them were wanted by their current teams
then they would be matched. Big difference.
by hoodieNation on Jul 13, 2010 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions
I disagree that it is not in Blazer's best interest.
How can you say that getting Milsap would not have been in Portland’s best interest? The Blazers needed a backup banger behind Lamarcus Aldridge. Look at how things went last year…Joel Przybilla and Greg Oden went down with season ending injuries. You don’t think that Paul Milsap would have been valuable to a team starting Juwan Howard at center? Come on now!
Even if those injuries don’t happen having Milsap as a backup four would have been brilliant. We sure had no answers down low to the Jazz last season…Would have been nice for Milsap to change jerseys and help lock down Boozer.
last summer
millsap’s agent talked about how millsap would fit into the blazers’ lineup and could even start at the 3, and how sap had all these great conversations with nate and your gm about where he would fit in.
after the jazz matched, sap said that he’d never spoken to either your coach or gm.
if the blazers were really interested in signing him, don’t you think they would have had conversations with him? that they didn’t is why i think it was a “screw you” move. and with matthews, well, now it’s a pattern.
Except that they met with Matthews, didn't they?
(just curious)
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i don't know if they did or not
but my point was that the blazers don’t necessarily have a history (two years in a row makes it “a history”) of actually wanting the jazz players they sign to big offer sheets.
nor do you or I know if they really met with Millsap.
I definitely see how it might feel like the Blazers are picking on the Jazz. Two guys in two years is a bit suspicious. But two is just two…Not enough data to draw any conclusions. I will check in at this time next year!
yes, Portland met with Matthews
we were originally target Farmar (thank god that didn’t happen), but switch after talking to Wes.
by hoodieNation on Jul 13, 2010 12:41 AM MDT up reply actions
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