The Downbeat - 14 July 2010 - #271 - The Flash Gordon Edition
by Basketball John on Jul 14, 2010 8:16 AM MDT
in The Downbeat
122 comments
I'm leading with this video made by adijacjak (pronounced just as it looks) and stealing it from the FanPosts because you will never get this out of your head for the rest of the day and it's fantastic,
Speaking of great fan work, this is from Alexandria VA
Now that Korver is with the Bulls, he (and I assume Boozer as well) is trying to recruit Ronnie B,
Speaking of Boozer, don't think he didn't have some impact as to where Korver ended up. The Bulls' major free-agent acquisition has been in constant contact with Korver over the last week, and now Korver is trying to throw on the same recruiting pitch for another former Utah teammate, Ronnie Brewer. If the Orlando Magic match the offer sheet that the Bulls gave J.J. Redick, you can bet the Bulls will go hard after Brewer.
"[Boozer] reached out to me and we talked about it for sure," Korver said. "And I was texting Ronnie Brewer earlier, so we're trying to start the Chicago Jazz here. I don't know if you knew that."
First, it looks weird for Korver holding up a Bulls jersey. That one hurts more than seeing Boozer hold up his. It may be though that Ronnie B is waiting to see what happens with Redick before signing. If you're looking at the recruiting angle though, Brewer has more friends with the Jazz than he would with Chicago.
While I would welcome Ronnie B back, I don't know if he's the fix that we need, his lack of an consistent outside jumper being the biggest reason.
Where does the KOOF go from here? It looks like he's not going to be staying in Minnesota,
David Kahn just said here in Las Vegas that he has already talked to Koufos' agent and will try to move Koufos on a team where he might play more than on a Wolves team that now has Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic and soon Nikola Pekovic.
I didn't hear/read anything on why he was included since the Jazz didn't need to trade any players in the deal. Minnesota obviously doesn't have them in their plans. It does save the Jazz some money so that's an added bonus if O'Connor got them to take him for that.
Does he just get bought out? I don't know what kind of asset he is for another trade. I guess Minny could get another low second-rounder for him. If he does get bought out, would he head to Europe? He did have offers from several clubs when he declared for the draft. He would likely get more money and more playing time there.
While I'm upset that we're going to be losing Matthews (98% likely), I'm even more upset that it's not going to do any damage to the Blazers. They're going to be over the cap but paying the luxury tax is nothing for them. For the Blazers there's no risk involved. Unlike Maverick, Paul Allen can cash all the checks he wants.
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1. Awesome
2. Awesome
8. Yeah it was harder for me to see Korver hold up that jersey and say he is a Bull.
4. I didn’t know they included Koof in the deal ‘til I was reading thru it last night. It said we have a logjam at that position. Do we? We only have Memo and Jefferson at the Center position unless we resign Fess. I wouldn’t call that a logjam. Am I missing someone? I was a little disappointed to see Koof go, although he looked like a chicken with his head cut off whenever he got on the court. Besides the flashes of good games his rookie season, he hasn’t done anything to show a lot of potential. But I was willing to stick with him this season. Maybe the T-Wolves buy him out and we pick him up for less than a million?
5. The risk is will Matthews live up to his contract. Other than that, not much risk.
1. Amazing
2. Great, Big Al and Veronica Corningstone
8. Agree on Korver
4. The Jazz need the extra money more than the KOOF. I like him but from a basketball perspective it makes sense.
5. I don’t think they breing back Wes, but maybe the money we saved by sending the KOOF to the T’Wolves makes Wes’s contract easier to swallow. I hope that bringing back Wes is the reason we put Kosta in the deal.
1! Flaaash! I had to play it again while I write this. I want to go to a game with a big boom box..they need to play it when he hits a 3
2. hahaha pretty funny!
8. Brown and Brewer possible to get both? I just want Brown to drop 50 on the fakers! And keep Ron from Booz
4.Glad to see the Koof go. He needs to develop overseas.
5. We shall have our revenge!
by UtonganKidInCali on Jul 14, 2010 8:46 AM MDT reply actions
So, is that...
…his potential new nickname? Flash!
8
i’m becoming more convinced that the Jazz sign Ronnie Brewer each day.
I don’t think its the best move, we need a shooter, but all signs point to Brew.
reasons: Put a smile on D-wills face, low price tag (hopefully), Matthews is gone for sure, KOC has verbalized he thinks the jazz have all the shooters they need between ninja, gordo, cj, and memo (he is wrong, but thats another story)
IF we can have a strong outside presence by committee, than Brew would be a great fit to draw attention away from Sap and big Al in the post
Brewer
Yes, I’d prefer someone who’s more of a threat from outside. However, if we could get Brewer on the cheap, less than he thinks he deserves, e.g. offer him 3 years, $3.5 or 4 m take it or leave it, if he gets no other offers, he takes it.
Then, he’s told that his role on defense is same as before. His role on offense is no longer to try to shoot from outside, but to only look for opportunities to slash to the basket. Have him in whenever Memo and one other respectable outside shooter are in who a) spread the floor a bit and b) in the case of Memo, bring one of the other team’s bigs out on him.
Then, imagine AJ having more room to do his thing inside, and Ronnie’s ten points from dunks and lay-ups are just as many points as ten from whatever outside shooting role player we might otherwise get. Opposing teams actually would have to play Brewer closer than when he was also looking for outside shots.
AJ and Brewer would need to spend 25% of every practice practicing inside passing to each other.
I say this completely optimistically...
Could the Jazz have cleared the Koof’s salary to save the roughly $700,000 they would be taxed on over the MLE for matching Portland on Mathews? Koof is due $1.3 million this season, and the NBA minimum salary is $473,604, which would save the Jazz roughly $800,000 if they brang on another D-Leaguer. The MLE is around $5.8 mill next season, and the Jazz will be on the books for Mathews for around $6.5 ($9.2 up front, but on the books, as far as I can understand it, the extra amount can be amortized over the life of the contract). That leaves the Jazz being taxed on roughly $700,000 of Mathews contract (I know you still need to fill out the roster, but I’m speaking in isolated terms to justify his deal).
I guess I’m one of those that really thinks the Jazz should match Portland. I know this is a stretch, but I’m trying to figure out as well why KOC threw in the Koof when, obviously, Minni didn’t want him.
looks good
from an isolated perspective, but KOC will be looking at it as a whole. As a whole the Jazz will need to fill out the roster with somewhere around 3 more of those league minimums.
Good thought, I don’t think it happens. I think KOC was just trying to clear room to make signing Fes easier to swallow
So Koof would have cost the team 2.6 million dollars when all is said and done. They certainly traded him for financial flexibility
Matthews’ contract is spread out over the course of the 5 years. The bonus isn’t “taxed” straight up, but it does count against the cap.
From people I have talked to, the cap hold for Matthews’ contract this season would be $5.75 million, all of which would go against the luxury tax. So if the Jazz match Matthews, it would cost the Jazz $11.5 million. Unfeasible. With that said, if they match Matthews, I think we are a better team this upcoming season than we have ever had since Deron has been here. This is why I didn’t want to pay the tax this last season. Maybe if we hadn’t, we could go balls to the wall style this year financially.
Oh well.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Do
You see a player that is a FA that the Jazz could land that you personally think would make the Jazz just as competitive as if we had Matthews?
Or who do you think would be the next best signing?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Does anyone else think
had we signed anthony morrow to a contract similar to what he recieved, we would be a clear number 2 in the west, barring injury?
Clear number 2? Maybe...
We’d definitely challenge
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
but think about it
IMO there were only 2 teams who had a good chance of beating us this past year in the playoffs (excluding the lakers). The Suns and the Thunder. Suns lost Amare so take them off the list, and no other team in the western conference really improved much, if at all.
Sure
but adding Hedo & Childress, while keeping their other guys, doesn’t really hurt the Suns too much.
And the Thunder… I’m pretty sure they own us
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
true
but amare was usually the one who killed us, without him they’re just another good team, i think. And yeah thats why I didn’t eliminate the Thunder, I’m just telling myself our experience gives us the advantage. But they will definately be a team to reckon with in the upcoming years, and hopefully we can use that to our advantage with them and the Lakers beating each other up.
"I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."
Louisiana Jazz fan
Well
I think we shipped out the koof so we can bring back Hoffa!! The one man bodybuilding wrecking machine. The only guy to have ever defended Tim Duncan on the Jazz.
We want Hoffa!
We want Hoffa!
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 9:12 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Love Hoffa!
He owned Marvin Williams! During their first meeting at the RMR, Hoffa threw Marvin into the hoop after Marvin fouled him. Second time, Hoffa’s elbow received a flagrant 2 (later reduced) for smashing Marvin’s face in and Hoffa was thrown out to a standing ovation! We need a bruiser back! Someone that can bring the pain!
Greatness
He didn’t take any crap! Seriously! Even in college.
I love those tough rugged guys like Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman, and now Paul Millsap and even Fess.
You gotta be physical to play in the paint for Sloan…(Boozer excluded)
Malone was a beast in the paint. Ostertag was a physical dude. I really hope we keep Fess because I like how he is physical with his body. That is the Jazz way!!
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 9:42 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
the video of that is on someone's youtube page . . .
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
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E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Was I the only one
Impressed by Jarmereo Davidson? He is very long and agile. He brings a different prospective then we are used to. Him and Evans would be good to sign up for backups.
We need those long ass arms swatting at shots. That helps our interior defense a lot. While we may have technical defensive deficiencies we can make up for it in other ways.
I am vouching for Jeremy Evans and Jarmereo Davidson to be on the final roster.
Both would be very cheap and if used right very efficient.
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 9:30 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
I liked davidson, he was not afraid to take (and make) jumpers as a bigman
and our offense relies upon floor spacing. no point in allowing gasol and bynum a reason to be in the paint when we can try to draw one of them out
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
I Love Lock(e)
2-That might be my favorite part of the MWC poster. HAHAHAHA!
Oh, and is it opening day yet?
Twitter: bjcseven
yes - 'i luv locke' was fantastic
as was the Flash vid – Queen and Gordon quite a combo – hope the nickname sticks
I love this site and this bunch of Jazz fans
Even if everyone thinks I’m crazy for my Wes pinings and We-were-a-playoff-team-already-with-no-Boozer-and-no-Al opinion.
#1: unbelievable
#2: brilliant
Seriously, do other fan sites get anything close to what we get here at SLCDunk. I feel spoiled.
#3: Much, much, much more bitter to see Korver with the Bulls uni than seeing Boozer. But if they get Brewer—it’ll be weird but I’d be okay. He wasn’t very good last year at all.
#4: The KOOF must be feeling bummed right now. I don’t care if another team wants him. I don’t care if he can play more and get paid more in Europe. There are no fans who will worship him like we did here. That has to sting.
#5: This is why luxury tax has turned out to be a terrible idea and a terrible thing for small market teams. Sure, it sounded great at first. And for the first few years it was okay: when only the Knicks and Mavs were willing to pay it. But once the rest of the bigger market teams decided they could go over the line it became a disaster. Now it’s twice as hard for the smaller market teams to put up a competitive team.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I hate the luxury tax
It wasn’t a coincidence that last season’s finals entrants had the two highest payrolls and were from two of the league’s largest markets. Whenever i complain about the luxury tax system here on the SLCDunk boards, someone is kind enough to remind me that this is the system the NBA wants. They want to see LA and Boston in the finals. It’s ratings gold.
With that in mind, my new proposal is to scrap the luxury tax all together and instead handicap teams over the luxury tax amount. So this past season when the Lakers were like $26 million over the cap and the Jazz were $6 or &7 million over, the jazz would have started games up 20-0.
Now that would be really, really funny.
Wildly entertaining. And could you imagine that in baseball? Yankees $50 million over. Royals $75 million under. Every game starts 125-0, Royals.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
thought i'd heard rumors of a possible 'hard-cap' wanted by the majority of owners
in the next CBA – i’d take a lock-out for a hard-cap in a heartbeat.
Matthews
When Portland sees he doesn’t do as well outside the Jazz system, they’re gonna realize it was a mistake to overpay him. Then maybe the Blazers will learn a lesson about poaching our players and won’t do it again.
75% risk of Matthews not living up to potential
He definitely was not worth 6 million a year this past year, but he is way young, and I would give him about a 25% chance of living up to the potential and getting even better over the next 5 years. I think the Jazz make the right move by letting him go, freeing up some cap space, and giving Hayward more chances to play. But there is about a 1/4 chance that we will be kicking ourselves.
True...
But I would say he is worth around $4-5 mill a year after last years performance. Say he doesn’t get better. Would he be overpaid? Yes, but AK is overpaid by at least $10 mill. Mathews would be closer to his real value, so it would be easier to swallow.
Not trying to justify a possible mistake by comparing it to another, just reiterating the fact that AK’s contract is a real noose around our necks.
by Theagreement on Jul 14, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Actually, I kind of disagree
Yes, AK’s contract is too big. But the Jazz figured out how to use him again last year, he started putting up the same numbers as he did his All-Star year, and it totally turned the Jazz season around. Is he overpaid? Yeah. But not as badly as you suggest.
But there has been no bigger mistake than offering Memo his extension. It was a bad idea last summer. It looked worse when Memo had a very down year. And now, when we have no idea what we have next year, it is abominable. $10 million for a guy who may not play again. I love Memo, but that bites.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Good points on Memo
+1 on the second half of your argument.
I still feel AK is vastly overpaid, even with his two month production spurt last seasson. Even if he kept that up, he is only worth $10 mill a year max, and probably less than that.
by Theagreement on Jul 14, 2010 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions
if the jazz hadn't gone and signed boozer
the same summer that they signed AK to the max contract, and AK had continued playing the 4, making the all-star team and all-defense teams, he might not be overpaid.
the real mistake the jazz made was signing ak to the max and signing boozer in the same summer. they should have just settled for one instead of both.
Except it doesn't free up cap space
Al’s contract put them WAY over the cap.
And you don’t think a rookie gets better in the next 2 years? A lot of guys here believe that about Wesley, but I don’t get it. Solid rookies with their heads on straight improve. Millsap did. Ronnie B. did. Deron did.
I do like giving Hayward chances to play. I think he’ll be really good. Better offensively than Wesley. Defensively … I don’t know. But I do like Hayward a lot.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Defensively
I doubt it.
Offensively… if he’s not better than Wesley, we wasted the pick.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
He's not really all that young
He turns 24 before the season. CJ is younger than him.
And because he's 24 he didn't learn anything last year?
Wes must be pretty dumb.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Because he's 24 he was able to succeed
But there won’t be a tremendous amount of improvement between now and 30. He’s fully developed and in his prime. So in looking to match you have to decide if the production he provided this past season plus tiny incremental improvements are worth the contract.
I almost agree but disagree just enough
A lot of SG’s peak between 25 & 26. A lot also have a huge jump at 25.
So, here’s what I see for Wes’s potential:
After the Brewer trade he averaged about 12 ppg. 13 ppg in the playoffs. His defense improved through the season, as did his cutting. His 3 point shooting improved through the season.
Based on that beginning, his age, and the effect experience has on defensive improvement, rebounding, and passing, here’s what Wes could be from 25-30:
No improvement:
12 PPG, 3 RBD, 2 AST + very good defense
Pessimistic improvement:
13 PPG, 3 RBD, 2 AST + very good defense
Reasonably optimistic improvement:
14 PPG, 3-4 RBD, 3 AST + one of the top 3 wing defenders in the league.
Absolutely best he could be:
15 PPG, 5 RB, 4 AST, 40% + 3 point shooter, best wing defender in the NBA
Considering the Jazz makeup (Deron is the leader, Millsap/Al is the primary #2, AK is secondary #2), taking Wesley with no improvement would still be taking the perfect player for this team. But he’ll probably get better. Like you said, we’re not talking a jump to MJ level, we’re looking at increments … but man I would love any of those possibilities.
No improvement at all would still be better than we’ve had the previous 4 years. It would be the kind of role player the top teams MUST have. And if he reaches the apex of his potential … wow, that’s quite the guy to have as a role player. I’d so take it.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
You should be
Matthews’ agent. You probably could have gotten him an even better deal :)
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd so take that job :)
My 10% cut of his salary would be a slight increase from my awesome teacher’s paycheck.
Ah well. I guess I’ll have to be satisfied with being a loud, delusional fan for my favorite player not named Deron, Paul, or Andrei. And to never stop ranting about all the reasons the Jazz should match the offer until the 10 days expire and I mourn his passing to Portland.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
NBA agents are only allowed to take 4% of their client's salary
But there is no restriction on the cut they can take for other deals like endorsements. And it’s only 7 days to match.
See what happens when I don't look up the data?
I get it all wrong.
I’d still take my 4% cut and be living bold. I would buy myself the awesomest freaking barbeque on the market.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Other crazy thing
I’m going through Jazz highlights of every game last season. (I’m making a Deron Williams video—just because Deron’s awesome).
Here’s probably the most astounding thing about Wes:
Every time there’s a loose ball, a deflection, or something like that Wes is either (a) the guy who mad-hustles to get the loose ball or (b) the first one down the court to get the easy bucket. It’s game after game after game after game. Play after play after play after play. Unbelievable.
Also unbelievable that I have this much time on my hands.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I noticed over on the Portland blog
many fans seem to feel Wes won’t be near the player there because of the system and offense they run . . . here’s hoping so.
the only problem of calling him Flash
is that another guy with that nickname will drop 50 on him
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
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E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 10:43 AM MDT reply actions
I really want to say something sarcastic here
but I’m not going to. Just saying.
(So at least give me credit for keeping my mouth shut…)
That said, I completely agree with this.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Man
You guys are really debbie downers when it comes to Hayward :P
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Hey
I am with Gordon Hayward. I think he will be one of the greats to wear a Jazz uniform. I think he has that kind of potential. He could already start and be productive although playing the bench would be more beneficial to his career.
I am on the Gordon Express Choo Choo!!!
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 12:39 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Lol
I just like mocking ATJ and Utes because we disagree that Gordo can play the 2 position well :)
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
If Gordo can play the 2 as well as you think
I’ll be able to survive Jazz-fanhood without Wes. Suddenly the minute distribution between AK, CJ, and Gordo at the 2 & 3 would be pretty ideal.
If Gordo can make it as a 2. (You’re convincing me more every day).
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I think he'll be able to play the 2 in the jazz offense fine
after all, AK started at the 2 that one year’s stretch run where Matty started at the 3. AK has a point forward game (ball handling, distribution, cuts to the basket, getting to the FT line and not being a catch and shoot guy). That’s basically Hayward as well. (Except Hayward has the potential to be a good catch and shoot guy with some help from Horny)
It’s the defense that I’m worried about. I’m not trying to put him in a situation where he’s going to have problems in. Wingspan and lane agility measurements (yes, numbers) at nba combine were not so hot. Also in summer league (vs. low level nba talent) he was routinely getting creamed on screens, lost his man on defense a number of times, and got to him too late — when matching up vs. SGs. He was the victim of his man hitting open jumpers in his face or having him drive by him (off of a number of screens and poor rotations) for layups.
Sure, he’ll get better at that too — but right now he’s a GREAT prospect at SF. Less so when being tasked to defend SGs.
I want him to be awesome, right now he’s just not there yet when having to defend guys shorter and smaller and way quicker than he is.
Watch the summer league games again, you may see what I see
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
What about that surgery where they make your arms longer?
He’s young, maybe we should red-shirt him and have him undergo that procedure.
See I disagree.
I saw him get beat a few times and I also saw him learn and make adjustments. He did get destroyed a few times but everyone gets destroyed a few times. He’s a rookie.
I understand that lateral quickness is important. It’s not the most important. He’s going to have to take the Vet approach to playing defense. That’s pushing his man out of position, knowing where his help defense is, and using correct angles. How many times do we see veteran players shut down young gunners who easily have a step on them because they play smart? All the time. Once in a while they get burned but the majority of the time they can outsmart their opponent rather than beat him athletically.
Gordon is very smart and everything I’ve seen of him makes me believe that while he’s not the quickest, or the fastest, or the tallest, or the strongest; he can be the smartest. It may take him time to adjust and learn the ropes but if he can do that he’ll be a very good defender.
Plus, I think we are vastly underestimating the fact that the kid grew up a PG. It’s not like we are sticking a kid who played Center all through prep ball at the SG position. We’re taking a kid who knows the nuances of guards who just grew a litlte too lanky and tall to play the position. He still has the mentality of a guard.
I also find it kind of crazy after all the protection of Matthews, to be discounting Gordon that quickly. Matthews isn’t that fast, he’s not that athletic, he is even undersized compared to most SG/SF. He quickly figured out what it took to be a good defender. I’d dare say that Gordon is in a better position than Matthews ever was and that he’s Basketball IQ I think is better than Matthews.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Evan Turner sort of went by him every time down the court. I love Hayward, but it would take a mighty team effort to have him at the two defensively.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
That is funny because
his combine numbers are actually better than Turner. Wes Matthews doesn’t have combine numbers that I could find, but just from watching both of them, I actually think Haywars is quicker, and a better athlete.
Too bad that was the one game that I didn’t see… all the other games he seemed to hang with guys for the most part.
by davidthecomposer on Jul 14, 2010 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I guess I should say comparable..
though I don’t forsee turner being a defensive stud either..
by davidthecomposer on Jul 14, 2010 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Turner
was 4 for 10…… and only had 13 points…. 3 assists and 6 rebounds….. in 34 minutes of play. with a +/- of -18. I understand that Hayward only played 17 minutes, but I hardly see that as being an amazing game. Especially with 5 turnovers and being blocked.
Meanwhile, Hayward 14 points, 1 assist, 4 rebounds…. in 17 minutes of play with a +/- of + 25. Hayward had 2 turnovers and blocked a shot…
Just sayin….. every time down the court? Doesn’t look that way at all.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Turner
just had a bad SL.
Its not all on the D there… he was just out of it (it seemed, at least) for most of the week.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
So because someone just has an off week
You discount the defense all together?
I mean at the very least you can’t criticize Hayward’s defense and call it wash then….
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I'm not discounting it all together
I’m just saying, his performance in all 5 games shows that it was just Hayward playing good.
And while the final stats weren’t nice to him, Turner did in fact get past Hayward easily. If his shot had been falling at all, he ends with much better number than he actually did.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
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I don't care about the stats of the game. I am talking about what I say when I watched the game.
Turner, an average speed shooting guard was going by Hayward. The team rallied and helped on him, which is what any good defense will do. But from a defensive standpoint, Hayward couldn’t really hang with Evan Turner.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
i'm all for Hayward
but did anyone else notice that many of his blocked shots came ‘after’ he’d been beaten by his man to the basket . . .
that being said
I think Hayward will make a decent 2 defensively – particularly depending on the match-up. now that we have Raja and Hayward – that should make for some serous match-up mind games with the both at that 2 spot. frankly, i’m looking forward to the match up head games sloan could play using them both.
I wonder who is going to start at the 2...
and if Now Hayward doesn’t move to the backup 3
by davidthecomposer on Jul 14, 2010 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Well
I think it’s something he can definately learn. He has all the athletic and size skills necessary to be a really good defender. He just needs to learn how to guard NBA 2 guards effectively.
Most guys don’t begin their careers having the ability to guard multiple positions, however, GH has a big advantage playing under Sloan. No defense = No minutes….
Just give him a little time to adjust and I guarantee he will silence his critics and nay sayers.
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 1:01 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I hope that's the case in 2 years
right now, though, all rookies suck on defense. also all rookies get unfairly called for fouls. add to the fact that morris almond was a better physical defender than this guy . . . (at the two) . . . I don’t think we should pile TOO MUCH onto him. let him organically develop as a player, don’t throw him to the lions (kobe’s, wade’s, roy’s, etc) right now and have his ego and confidence be crushed.
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by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Nicely put
He needs to be eased into the rotation. Adjust to the pace of the pro game. We don’t “need” him to produce just yet…so easing him in garbage minutes and giving AK a rest should be good to start.
I believe he will pick up pretty quick though…..he is very smart and can do a lot of things on the court. I would like to eventually see him getting atleast 20min a game before seasons end.
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 1:15 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Who said
Anything about him playing Kobe, Wade, and Roy as a rookie? I said 2 guards. Hayward is going to be coming off the bench and if he is on the court with these elite stars, I’m pretty sure there will be someone else guarding them.
That doesn’t mean that Hayward can’t guard 2 guards. That just means he needs time to be able to hang with the elite guys. Not everyone is Matthews.
I never even said that Hayward should be starting. I just said I see him playing the 2 guard position just fine.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
fair enough
I kind of expect him to be good enough on offense to play solid, valuable minutes for our team (with guys like d-will and sap; and not be relegated to having to ‘play’ with sundiata or fes). as a result, in my mind, i had him playing against good teams — and some of those teams have really good players. you are attempting to make the case for him as a guy who can defend 2’s. so I just named a few.
it’s a mistake of me taking what you said, and running wild with it – so I apologise.
can hayward check a guy like batum? yes. can hayward check a guy like rudy fernandez? i don’t think so. one guy is a guy who makes occasional cuts on offence, but mostly just plays a role. rudy runs all over going through screens all day. that’s not the guy I want hayward to have to deal with — when in the nba summer league, he was having problems with that.
I think he’ll get better as time goes on. but whatever experience he had playing PG in highschool isn’t going to serve him vs. guards in the nba right now. i played PG in highschool. defending me is not so hard.
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by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions
this is also a reply to your post above
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by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions
That's all i'm sayin
I feel it’s too quick to write off his defense, just like it’s too quick to deem him an all-star.
What I saw I really liked though. If he is picked to play Sg, I’ll back him. If he plays Sf. I’ll back him.
I just don’t want peopel closing doors on him yet. That’s all.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I'm not saying he can't play the 2 position well
I’m just saying he can’t play it as well as we’ll need defensively.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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No problem with Hayward himself
and offensively, he’ll be fine (I hope).
Defensively, I disagree.
I think your hopes are too high for him.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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Why
Why do u think that?
He has all the tools.
Quick
Long
Smart
His bball IQ alone would allow him a defensive advantage.
Give me reasons why he can’t play the 2 effectively…
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 1:19 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
problem is that he's not long (wingspan), he's tall (height), and he's not that quick compared to other guards (other SFs, maybe).
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I do think he's smart
so he’ll get better as he gains experience. i just don’t think that he should be forced into doing more than he should be right now as a rookie
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E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
See my
response to ATJ
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Oh that vid was epic....
lol, but good memories of Mercury and Queen.
Who can forget Christina Applegate and her belly button (Woot!).
The Chicago Jazz… Ha Ha… Kyle is a doof.
I don’t understand the Koof thing.
And why would the Jazz let Wesley go? More no understand…..
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
morrow
From what I’ve heard around here, Morrow is a horrible defender so it seems like he’d be a mixed bag on the floor, but I must admit his offensive numbers look really good.
But at 3 or 4 million dollars a year, he probably would be a steal compared to some of the stuff we are left with now.
Best case scenario:
We are able to match Wesley Matthews and then trade a healthy Okur at the trade deadline for a smaller, but longer contract of a wing player. Maybe if it isn’t working out in Portland, the Blazers can just trade Matthews back to us for Okur.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
+1
Although trading Memo may prove somewhat difficult this year.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Why would
They want Okur?
They have Oden and Camby… just sayin.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
That's only true until the middle of December
when both of them end up injured…
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
It was a joke on the fact that people think Wesley won't do well in Portland.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
actually
Per the terms of restricted free agency, the Jazz couldn’t trade for Wes for one calendar year
I think you mean Allen can cut all the checks he wants. Anyone who has a bank account can cash all the checks they want.
Although then BBJ's appreviated allusion to "son, your ego's writin' checks your body can't cash"
get’s somewhat lost, doesn’t it?
8
Korver doesn’t look weird holding up a Bulls jersey. Why? Because Korver looks exactly like the Bulls logo in that picture. I think it’s the eyebrows.
Raja Bell
returning to Utah?
Marc Stein’s tweet:
ust filed to ESPN.com: Raja Bell will not be meeting with Kobe Bryant after all … because Bell has been snapped up Utah
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 7:20 PM MDT reply actions
Love this retaliation foul
Manu sells it, but Bell got him pretty good. Manu plows through Nash and Bell gets him back.
If this happens
I will RIOT!!!
reported 3 year 10 million dollar offer has been made…..
COME BACK TO UTAH RAJA!
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
That's it?
That would be a total steal.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 7:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Uhh yea
If that’s all it takes…. I will be VERY very happy
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Siler reporting
Jazz won’t match OMSW as they are signing another guard.
We have a legit Kobe hater on our team now. That’s awesome.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Holy heck
You think Ronnie Price and Raja Bell can combine into one angry ball of Laker hate?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
haha that would be awesome.
And Raja and 3/10 mil is better than Wes at 5/33 mil. KOC does it again. He’s had a solid summer.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 7:44 PM MDT up reply actions
His
best offseason since the Boozer/Okur season
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Raja Rings The Bell???
Back With The Jazz?
by murderousmalone on Jul 14, 2010 7:39 PM MDT reply actions
Great work on the photoshop
one of the better chops ive seen
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