Raja Bell Coming Back?
Breaking news from Marc Stein (on Twitter)
Just filed to ESPN.com: Raja Bell will not be meeting with Kobe Bryant after all ... because Bell has been snapped up Utah
Stein later says the deal offered by the Jazz was for 3 years and worth nearly $10 million. Which makes him cheaper than Matthews, Morrow and pretty much everyone else that has signed this off-season (except maybe Tony Allen).
Bell... we've all seen him before. And many were sad when he jumped to Phoenix after his first go-around here ended. He's coming off of a wrist injury that limited him to 6 games last season. If he's over that, though, he brings his career 41% from downtown shooting mark and some veteran defense (and the clear ability to frustrate Kobe Bryant... or clothesline him if need be). He's played for Sloan before, so that's going to help both sides... he knows what Sloan expects.
Better or worse than Matthews? That's to be seen. They're both solid jump-shooters, they both play good D on the perimeter. Bell is much cheaper though, and has proven his worth in the league (for those that think that's important). This does mean, of course, that the offer to Matthews will not be matched. We'll have to see what happens over there now... Matthews just got stuck behind a bunch of wings.
For now, we've got Bell. With a Fesenko signing likely coming, is that the off-season. What does everyone think of the team? And who goes to the bench? CJ? AK? Or Bell, who's primarily been a starter since he left Utah?
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I can't stop smiling
If this is true… :D
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
Raja is back!!!
Bring on the Nasty!!!!!
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
this is just awesome news
but for me, well, jazz front office is on fire right now. and basketball-reference.com has become my home page . . . great, now i have to go over bell’s stats.
also happy to have him back. he brings vet savvy and toughness. also not afraid of kobe (which is good). he’s also beaten kobe in the playoffs before. (also good)
he’s also half South Asian (and his mom is Hindu). so, that’s working for me as well. (sorry Utesfan, no Jain roots)
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by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 7:56 PM MDT reply actions
Its alright
supposedly he’s vegetarian.
For baseball fans… he’s definitely pulled that off better than Prince Fielder…
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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Love this deal.
KOC and the Millers bringing the heat this summer. Ninja has to be grinning right now as well.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 7:57 PM MDT reply actions
I'm grinning from ear to ear.
Kevin O’Connor, I take back everything I said earlier.
by i_am_pure_barbarian on Jul 14, 2010 7:57 PM MDT reply actions
I'm sure Portland's ownership or whoever is running the team right now
is thinking right now: Wait, we offered how much for our backup SG?
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions
If we would have offered less,
you guys would still have Matthews.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Still WAY too much money for a backup...
for a starter, maybe.
I think most Blazer fans are happy.
Some are concerned, but you guys have pretty much sold us on Wes Matthews.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Glad to help
As a Jazz fan, I hope it burns your pockets.
As a Wes fan, I hope it all works out for him.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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Well he's a stud.
You guys picked up a great player.
I see the Blazers clearing the deck
Rudy has been as good as gone since February when he privately asked for a trade, Bayless will probably be moved too (he’s a short 2, not a 1) and I expect that WM will get about 28-30 minutes a night playing behind both Roy and Batum.
Blazers seem committed to consolidating Miller, Pryz, Rudy and Bayless for a longer term solution at the point guard spot.
by nikolokolus on Jul 14, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
i love this so, so much.
i am so happy. i’ll probably repost this 10 more times in the same thread. apologies in advance.
Bell
will bring all the positives that Fisher brought (veteran leadership, defense, solid 3 pt shooter) without a lot of the problems that Fisher brought (lack of defense, chucker, etc.)
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions
WOW
He turned down 8 mil from the Bulls, apparently.
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
Wait seriously?
I guess that makes sense though… with Deng & Korver already there (& Redick maybe?)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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I'm picturing
Kobe sitting at a restaurant right now waiting for Raja to show up for their meeting, lol.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions
RAAAAJAAAAAAAAA
My favorite part is the grin afterwards.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
oooops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8ZukXsWmk
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Excuse me
I’m just going to go watch this a couple thousand times in a row now, I’ll be back in a bit.
"OK, let’s do this. Let’s play the basketball." - Fes
It's the
Grin after he walks off the court that gets me everytime
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
this is the real Boom Bitches move
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions
whenever raja fouls someone we should say it
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 8:28 PM MDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eRp-Mwknpc
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 20, 2010 8:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I see
You’re yet another Lakers Keyboard Warrior, patrolling the nether-regions of the internet, determined to make sure that everyone knows how awesome you and your team are, and you won’t rest until you put every fan of every other team in its proper place.
Get a freaking life.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
happy with this signing
but it sucks to see wes go. you find a gem as an undrafted free agent and he’s gone a year later. guess that’s sports.
if we had to replace him with anyone, i’m glad it’s raja.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 8:06 PM MDT reply actions
True
I think, though, that the money really was more than they were willing to pay for Matthews.
At a reasonable deal, he’d be back. But Portland overpaid him, and the front-loaded contract didn’t help.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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it was the right decision to not match
i commend the jazz for making the right move. i’m sure it wasn’t easy. we all loved wes.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 8:09 PM MDT up reply actions
3pt
my favorite part of this is we get defense and 3 point efficiency which i think were the elements most needed in the SG. whether he starts or not, he’ll be worth that reported amount.
Questions
Great news. Too good to be true, but it is!
He’ll be 34 when the season starts—contract takes him through age 36 (almost 37). Any concerns about effects of age? Does being off pretty much all of last year help?
Was it his shooting hand that was injured? Was it an injury from which he can completely heal and get his shot back?
What does the starting line up look like now and where does Raja fit in? SG, but start or off the bench? Does it depend on who we’d need him to guard?
starting?
i wonder if the reason he’s accepting less money to play with the Jazz versus Chicago (if what I read was true) would be that the Jazz told him he would start?
by Paul Rosendal on Jul 14, 2010 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions
because it would seem like Chicago has about as much chance of winning a championship as Utah would and so I don’t see the Jazz being a strong pull in that department when the 2 are compared.
by Paul Rosendal on Jul 14, 2010 8:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe cause he knows the system
Plus the length of the contract.
I dunno.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Sources say that Bell also received a two-year offer from Chicago on Wednesday worth in excess of $8 million, but the second year of that deal was incentive-based depending on Bell’s ability to appear in at least 60 games.
There is your answer
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Age might be a factor
But that’s why it’s only a 3 year deal. I expect him to be able to play just fine.
I don’t know if it was the shooting wrist. That’s a good question.
He should be back healthy though cause he missed all of last year.
He won’t be starting I don’t think. I would think he’d be back up to CJ miles at the 2. If he does start. I won’t be upset about it though.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
and when he's too old you can try to trade for Wes Matthews
Matthews contract 3 years from now will be a great value!
Agreed.
Veteran with a bit of nasty in him. I love it.
He’s gonna be like Matt Harpring.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
God that made me happy to post that.
I’ve missed Raja.
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
If he's like Harpring, I'm a very happy Blazer fan!
Over rated in my opinion.
Thank you Utah.
You have made two fan bases happy with this.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
All us SLCDunkers ask is that you keep the OMSW meme alive
We love the kid.
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
Portland fans will love Wes
It’s not really fair that the Jazz found the kid, gave him a shot, and developed him only to see him walk after one year. The CBA is flawed in this regard.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 8:21 PM MDT up reply actions
The CBA is flawed in so many ways but...
this isn’t one of them. It makes it impossible to offer a player who is a free agent after his first year a contract that is greater than the MLE. Prior to the change, Washington offered Gilbert Arenas a contract that the Warriors literally COULDN’T match. The Jazz were able to match for Wes, but chose not to.
It’s just another case of a player being paid too much.
I don't think an undrafted player
with a whopping one year of service time should be allowed to earn the full MLE in year two. In no other sport is a deal like this kosher.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 8:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes it is.
When players go undrafted, they become free agents. Matthews and the Jazz agreed to a one-year deal and that’s it. Same thing would happen in any other sport except in basketball the team has an option of matching or S&T the player. Now that is something no other sport allows to happen (although the NFL has a similar policy for restricted free agents, but I don’t know if that applies to players who go undrafted) and is a benefit to the teams.
two things
In the NFL there is draft pick compensation. A player like Wes would be tendered an offer and Portland would owe us draft picks if we chose not to match their offer.
MLB players are under team control for their first 6 years of service.
I’m happy Wes got his. It’s not like Paul Allen needs the money. But it doesn’t seem at all fair to the team that found him.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions
MLB players are under team control for 6 years when they are drafted.
International signings fall under a different category and qualify for 6-year team control because they were not eligible for the draft. However, any player that submits their name to the draft and goes undrafted, they automatically become free agents and do not fall under the category of being 6-year team control player.
The NFL draft pick compensation is ludacris. You get something like a 6th or 7th pick at best. And I don’t think that qualifies for players who signed after going undrafted.
a starter like Wes would be tendered something in the third round range
in the NFL. Also: undrafted players in the NFL are often signed to two and three year deals because they’re not guaranteed.
There are 3,000 rounds in the MLB draft. Does ANYONE go undrafted?
This is obviously a unique situation. I can’t remember the last time an undrafted FA has gotten a contract this big as a second year player. I doubt it’s ever happened. And no other team would have offered this much.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Matthews could have signed a two or three year deal and then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But since Matthews only signed a one-year deal as an undrafted free agent, the NBA has the best rules in place for teams to be compensated. Most other sports don’t have these kind of rules in place regarding undrafted free agents, so you can’t be upset about Matthew’s situation when comparing to other sports.
*NBA has the best rules in place for teams to be compensated*
You mean players?
The Jazz received no compensation in this.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Couldn't Utah have kept him if they had given him a solid offer?
It seems to me that they gambled. Maybe they said to themselves, “Portland wouldn’t try to screw with us two years in a row would they? Nah.”
Be happy you have Matthews, but not at his price on that team.
Kevin Pritchard was a great GM for you guys and this may be the start of something bad happening when it comes to handling roster construction with your team. But then again, you have Paul Allen as an owner and he is loyal to his franchises to keep them well funded (I am a Seahawks fan).
Price really isn't an issue.
It’s not like Portland was going to be under the Salary Cap in the next five years with Aldridge and Roy already getting a good chunk of the payroll.
As for Kevin Pritchard, here’s an interpretation of what happened. (<— Shameless self-promotion)
So the question was if Portland wanted him or not. Ben Golliver got this interview from Mike Born, the guy in charge while the GM search goes on:
It’s been clear in a number of recent conversations that Portland targeted Matthews in free agency for his combination of skillset, personality and fit. “Ben, he can be great for us,” Born said. “We were talking about this before, we do a lot of work on the guys that we’re working out for the draft, free agency. We do intel work on those guys — Andre Miller, Marcus Camby — he’s going to be a terrific fit for us. He’s everything we’re about. He’s a great kid, a great worker, a great teammate. Really well liked. Obviously for him playing for the two coaches he’s played for — at Marquette and then playing for Coach Sloan — that says a lot about him as a player and as a person. We think he’s got a chance to be a really good player for us and to be a really good fit for our culture. I think people will really like him as a person as well.”
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
I'm glad you are able to speculate on what happened, but I don't know how it changes the fact losing a great GM like Kevin Pritchard means a change in direction.
You simply don’t know how the new GM is going to handle that roster.
Matthew is great, no doubting the player you are getting. But what kind of player is he going to be only getting 10 minutes a game at this point? He’s an expensive backup and it will be interesting to see how whoever is building this roster, currently and in the future, is going to handle bloated salaries for bench players.
True.
Losing a good GM will be difficult to replace. No available candidate is quite as good, but there are some that are adequate. Kind of along the lines of losing Carlos Boozer and replacing him with Al Jefferson. Not the best move, but given the circumstances, not a bad move.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Al Jefferson > Boozer.
Younger, cheaper, and will now get to play with D-WIll.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 9:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Mostly he is longer and can play the center position for reals. Millsap and Jefferson can coexist.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Matthews was targeted prior to Pritchard's, um, departure.
So this is not something bad happening because he is gone. Also, this contract will not look so bad two years from now, and three, and four, and five.
Thank goodness there are players that still want to compete against the best
He may never win a title in Utah, but at least you can’t mistake Raja for being a front-runner. Although, I have no problems with players wanting to give themselves the best chance to win a ring. But I respect Raja even more.
The best thing about all of this?
Bell is totally going to whip Hayward into shape everyday in practice. This is awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtKi9SCEJK4
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Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 14, 2010 8:55 PM MDT reply actions
i would imagine that goes for al jefferson as well.
this is why i’m now ok with al jefferson on the jazz.
Sloan
has to be super excited right now. Over/under on how many more years Sloan stays? I’ll put it at 4.5
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions
whoever it was that said a few days ago
that KOC operates below the radar and the jazz trade rumors that are widely reported never happen, was DEAD ON.
Maybe
KOC’s nickname should be stealth ninja? I guess that’s redundant cause all ninjas are stealthy but he is one sneaky sob.
What must happen is that other front offices just leak crap to the media so fans think they’re actually doing stuff when nothing is actually getting done. The Jazz must oppose those kinds of shenanigans.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 9:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Marc Stein
broke both deals. Just FYI.
by Brigadier Pudding on Jul 14, 2010 9:32 PM MDT reply actions
How much sweeter is this
That the fact of Kobe Bryant wanting this guy in LA!!!! Hahaha
Its like the cool gang at school wanting to recruit the loner because he could and would whip all their butts…..but the loner says HECK NO!!
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on Jul 14, 2010 9:35 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
For the second day in a row..
Props to the Miller family.
3yrs/10 isn’t a lot in the basketball world, but bringing in guys like Jefferson and Bell show us, and more importantly Deron (Maybe not more importantly, but keeping Deron happy is pretty damn important), that the team is committed to winning and spending money to do so.
As for Raja, very pleased to have him back and for what he’s gonna bring (defense, 3 pointers, leadership) I’d much rather have him than some of the guys we were looking at, especially at his price.
Overall, went from a bad/boring offseason to a productive/exciting one for Utah.
Wesley feeling spurned
They said that I was a priority, but they never made me an offer,‘’ said Matthews, who said the Jazz used the strategy of having him bring back an offer sheet. "They never offered me anything. I’m sure that if they would have made an offer, it would have been a fair offer and I might have taken it.
Yucca Man must be smoke out of his ears angry.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 9:55 PM MDT reply actions
Wesley is now the enemy
Don’t burn bridges son…
by davidthecomposer on Jul 14, 2010 9:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Thing is
with lockout pending, Matthews is best served taking the biggest deal he can.
There’s no guarantee there’s a season next year (2011-2012), so the biggest
deal makes sense.
As for the Jazz, offering him during the season was impossible, I think due to
the was the CBA is structured (at least thats what I got from Siler). And after the
season… KOC works slowly. It works out, sure, but he works really slowly.
Unless there’s a bunch of needs, he’s not going to go sign a guy the first week
or whatever.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
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It's hard for me to believe
that OMSW’s agent would have let him sign an offer from the Jazz without looking for other offers first anyway, so it’s a moot point whether Utah offered him something imo.
He got the best offer he could and it was too rich for Utah’s blood. Good for Wesley, and good for the Jazz for pursuing Raja.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
sigh
first and foremost, this started with the jazz not giving him an offer. given his performance over the season and playoffs, the jazz should have realized that someone would give him an offer, and i think a 4mill/yr contract would have been reasonable and wesley would have taken it (even his own dad said he was worth 3-5).
that said, wesley should’ve known when he signed an offer sheet that called for the jazz to pony up 9 mill right away (though i don’t blame him for signing it esp if that was the only one that he got) that the jazz would have a hard time matching.
now, the thing is that he seems to be taking it personally that the jazz didn’t give him an offer—which he shouldn’t because that’s how they prefer to operate, and this is how they handled cj and millsap as well.
It sucks we lost Mathews
Watching him play last year as a Rookie in a Sloan run system, and crack the starting lineup this kid worked his but off. He would stay after practice and work on his game.
I think Mathews is gonna be a Great 2 guard in this league. He’s a hard worker.
As for Raja I’m so freakin happy right now that signing just made us the 2nd best team in the WC. I bet D-Will has a Big GRIN on his face right now………. GO JAZZ!!!!!!
Another warning to be posted
Careful with the Kool-Aid. Too much can be dangerous.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Actually
from Tribjazz
Wesley Matthews charges Jazz never made him an offer, but team was told from beginning it would take max midlevel to re-sign him.
So they told Wes that if he wanted max midlevel, he’d have to go out and get it and they’d decide about matching.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Oops
I posted it right as you were posting, lol.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions
its all good
if 2 people post it, you know no one is lying ;)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Well
15 more should do the trick.
No, I’m not trying to increase the comments in a post I got up. Why do you ask? ;)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
great
I posted it 60 seconds later but since its at the bottom of the post new readers will think I’m slow in the head.
"We were sitting like snipers in waiting." - AK47. Um, AK will save/snipe us all?
by Alexandria VA on Jul 14, 2010 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Might I say that this is sort of how the Jazz lost Raja in the first place. If I remember correctly Raja felt unwanted or unimportant to the Jazz after fielding phone calls the minute free agency opened from various teams including the Suns and hearing nothing from SLC. It may be more of an ego thing than anything else, but if massaging the ego of good players who play well in this system is necessary at times, I think it’s a skill that the Jazz FO should learn. Thankfully, Raja doesn’t hold grudges against anyone but Kobe.
by leapin'leaner on Jul 14, 2010 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
but in the same breath
that’s one of the reasons the Jazz are who they are as an organization. they don’t generally stroke players ego’s — and i think they are better off for it.
While this is true, they've also not won any titles lately.
The point holds, it might behoove us not to be so holy on this front.
Blame where you must, be candid where you can, And be each critic the Good-natured Man. - Oliver Goldsmith (Excellent advice)
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
I don't remember Raja being hurt at all
It was 5 years ago, so who knows if I remember right.
But I remember the Jazz putting up an offer and Phoenix putting up basically the same offer. And Raja took the Phoneix offer.
Because, you know, the Jazz had just finished an abominable 28-win season, and the Suns had been one or two bouts of bad luck from winning it all.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Raja got offered a lot of money for the time and the Jazz couldn't really match. Happened at 1201 and the Jazz wished him the best of luck. "That's a lot of money. Good luck."
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
SIler doing his thing on Twitter
Wesley Matthews charges Jazz never made him an offer, but team was told from beginning it would take max midlevel to re-sign him. Jazz wanted to talk about three- and four-year contract options. Why would they start bidding at the ceiling of what could be offered? So they told Wes that if he wanted max midlevel, he’d have to go out and get it and they’d decide about matching. Greg Miller was incredibly gracious to Wes, saying, "I’m really happy for him and for his family and I think it’s a great success story."
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I know it's different
but kind of the opposite response as the Gilbert/Lebron thing from Greg Miller, lol.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Its a shame
he seemed disapointed in our lack of aggression to offer him something first. But it’s hard to get too disapointed after getting Raja back. And Matt grback put it perfectly about things being that much sweeter that kobe wanted him to join the lakers. FTL!!
"I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."
Louisiana Jazz fan
Keep the good news flowing
Since Boozer’s departure, the Jazz have been able to get quality players. To turn down Kobe and the champs? Boozer’s departure was a blessing to the organization. Love the new additions!
Please tell me how many times Jazz fans will see this in their lifetime
“The Lakers, though, simply couldn’t compete with Utah financially after their own busy summer.”
Marc Stein on the Raja Bell signing.
"I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."
Louisiana Jazz fan
Al Jefferson, Raja Bell > Boozer, Krover
Jazz just improved their defense immensely.
somewhat mitigated by drafting a Top 10 lotto wing in Hayward (But i see him more as head-to-head vs. korver myself)
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by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 15, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
I might be the only one really bummed about this offseason.
And I was/am a huge Raja fan. And I like Jefferson. But here is the thing:
How is having Jefferson better then having Elton Brand, Derrick Favors, the Koof, and two first round picks? Because that is what we essesntially chose.
I love Raja, but isn’t it better to pay $3mill more per year and get a 10yr younger version of Bell?
How are we better then last year?
Was
that really on the table though?
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Reports
could be false though. i doubt Doug Collins would have wanted any trade like that.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with you
That would have been a great trade despite Brand’s contract, but that is why I don’t believe for a second that the trade was available… They would have had to have thrown in Kirilenko to make that trade work also, so take that into account also, but it’s hard to believe that if that trade was possible that the Jazz wouldn’t have taken it
KOC
said that the Jazz tried extremely hard to move up in the draft and there were no takers. I don’t buy that this deal was available either.
you seriously think that was available?
I just think it sounds too good to be true….
It sounds like one of these rumoured trades that we have been discussing earlier that was never on the table to begin with.
um, no, I don't seriously think that this deal was available.
which is why I said:
“I don’t buy that this deal was available”…
Where’s the confusion?
Two things:
We would be minus AK, so we wouldn’t have him or the depth. Secondly, I believe Favors is going to be great. I do. I like his game. But next season and probably for the next two years at least, Al Jefferson is better than both Elton Brand or Derrick Favors for the Jazz. I actually think we now have a team that can compete for the 2nd seed. If you trade AK for Brand and Favors, you can’t say that.
This is all to say, IF the deal was even really available to get Favors and Brand.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
i think this has been addressed a couple of times
but from a negotiation and leverage standpoint, it really is best to let the ‘other guys’ make the first offer. Wes might be disappointed Utah didn’t make an offer. but the reality is there is no way he would have just signed it unless it had been for the MLE which his agent had been asking and the Jazz wouldn’t have offered that. they would have shopped and he’d be gone regardless.
@tribjazz
Wesley Matthews charges Jazz never made him an offer, but team was told from beginning it would take max midlevel to re-sign him.
Jazz wanted to talk about three- and four-year contract options. Why would they start bidding at the ceiling of what could be offered?
So they told Wes that if he wanted max midlevel, he’d have to go out and get it and they’d decide about matching.
"We were sitting like snipers in waiting." - AK47. Um, AK will save/snipe us all?
by Alexandria VA on Jul 14, 2010 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Al
has never played with a point guard who helped him create shots. Tony Allen, Marko Jaric, Randy Foye, Johnny Flynn<<<<<<<<<<<<<Ninja.
hard to compare what Al’s production was in Minnesota to what it will be in Utah with Deron and Sloan’s system.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
@tribjazz
Bell’s agent, Herb Rudoy, e-mailed about the signing: “He had the Jazz on his short list of teams from the moment free agency began….”
“…Kevin has been after him from the beginning. Things just fell into place quickly today…”
“… Raja is thrilled to be back in SLC! He loved his time there.”
RAJA will be loved and adored here!!! I hope it rejuvenates his aging bones ;)
"We were sitting like snipers in waiting." - AK47. Um, AK will save/snipe us all?
And for all AK fans: we will probably never (barring injury) see AK get real minutes at the 4 again.
Unless he signs with another team next year. And maybe he should. Sloan has spent years cutting AK down about his offense, pulling him out of games, and replacing him ASAP at the 4 immediately after he makes the All-Star team at that position.
Then he lets Boozer slide for years on crap-ass defense.
Yeah...
cause Sloan is the GM… it was his call to go get Boozer.
oh… wait.
I wouldn't be surprised
if AK gets some backup 4 minutes this year. Who else will do it?
Jefferson will mostly play the 5, Millsap the 4. Who will backup Millsap? Sure Evans might get minutes but AK will too. Also, AK was very effective last year at the 3 and should continue to be.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions
agreed
AK will probably rotate between 3 and 4 – CJ and Hayward the 2-3 – and Memo might even play some 3 – the rotation and match-up options this year should make things REALLY interesting. one of the things i am most looking forward in watching Sloan go to work next season.
Three man rotation at the 3/4 as soon as Okur gets healthy.
Just like this year. Fess getting some minutes.
i'd take those odds
in the rare but right situation – I could see a Fes, Al, Memo front line – in fact i’d like to
yupb -slow
most likely it will never happen but i’d still take the odds. Memo will have to fully recover and AL will have to become a better/quicker help defender. but watching tape — I think he has the potential to be much better defensively. how badly would most anyone exert themselves on defense when over their entire career they are winning just over 1-out-of-4 games. not a lot of incentive.
or how about a line up where – on offense – you use Memo at the 3 (remember how well he was doing at putting the ball on the floor and taking it to the rim); AK at the 4 (where so many have said they’d like to see); and Jefferson at the 5. and on D have AK match up with the other teams 3.
sounds whacked i know, but . . .
Your logic
doesn’t make sense. The Jazz lost Boozer, and Millsap takes Boozer’s place. So who takes Millsap’s place? A combination of AK/Evans/Jefferson.
I think the Jazz will prefer using Al as a 5 though.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 11:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
that said, when Okur is back (if?), Okur/Jefferson could be a nice combo too when Paul needs a breather.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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I can see that.
I just think it’s too early to write off AK not getting any minutes at the backup 4.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions
What changed?
We went from 2 PFs (Boozer, Millsap) to 1 (Millsap)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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We went from a three man rotation at the 4/5
With Okur / Millsap/ Boozer to Okur / Millsap / Jefferson.
Okur
is hurt at the moment.
He’s not taking minutes from anyone.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Boozer is a true 4
and AL’s game is best as a 5. so that leaves SAP at the 4 with AK to rotate at 3 and 4.
The Jazz no longer have Boozer
So now Millsap starts. Jefferson starts at the 5. Okur is Jefferson’s primary backup. AK gets a lof of the backup minutes at the 4.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree maybe for a month or so until Okur is health.
But then he will need 30+ minutes a game. Three players can fill two positions at 32min ave. Which of those three do you see playing 12 minutes a game when healthy?
At that point
(assuming Okur recovers), AK will probably see time at the 3 and the occasionally the 4. I don’t see Okur getting to 20+ minutes until late in the season (if he comes back in December/January, as was predicted at time of injury)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Plus
we still need to see Millsap avoid foul trouble
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Seems like
we’re just going in circles.
Regardless, AK will get plenty of minutes and he was VERY effective last year even as a 3.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
AK himself says his best position in the NBA is at the 3
His all star season he was playing the 4 yes, but that wasn’t the reason he was an all star…. he got all the touches that year and was by far and away the best player on that team, but a lot of that was because much of the offense was focused on him and he thrived in that situation. It just isn’t the best outcome for the team… You won’t see a return to all star form just by putting him at the 4.
but i think Hayward will make things interesting
and allow some different looks playing a 2-3 and a few more options to the mix. especially with a scorer like AL at the 5 with Memo and AK, and then (depending on the match-ups) Hayward playing the 2. That could be a very interesting set of big guys on the floor at once.
it just seems to me
with Al at the 5 and Hayward – there could be some real interesting things done offensively and Sloan is one of the best in playing mind games with match-up problems. at least in my limited estimation.
so stoked
too have Raja back with his skill-sets AND the experience and leadership he has under his belt. i always thought his nickname should be “fearless” and if some of that rubs off on these guys in playing LA . . . that will almost be worth his salary alone.
+1
Seems he’ll bring a lot of the intangibles that Fisher brought but is a better 3 point shooter and better defender.
by scrantonicity33 on Jul 14, 2010 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I want to bring back the CHOO-CHOO nickname
Coined by the Cavalier here in ’06 due to an amazingly trainlike facial expression while complaining to a ref. Spread to SunsGossip and elsewhere for a while, then sadly fizzled out.
If any of you missed the YAYSports Raja Bell saga, it’s definitely still hilarious.
tehehehe!
Next time Lakers face Utah in the playoffs Kobe better be careful…
Just made that my desktop background at work
Too bad he’s not in a Jazz uniform
Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it.
-Unknown
I'm
pissing myself with excitement.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
This makes up for the Jefferson trade in my mind
I know everyone says we got a steal, but I think Minnesota got the steal. Two first round draft picks just makes me cringe. And the exception, And Koof…
But yeah Bell is perfect. If the dude can just stay healthy. JUST what we needed. Defense And shooting And a solid wing option all in one.
Blame where you must, be candid where you can, And be each critic the Good-natured Man. - Oliver Goldsmith (Excellent advice)
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
I felt the same way
But mostly because I didn’t understand why we were making a move to put us into the luxury tax if we were just going to have to dump salaries to get back under…
How confident are you guys feeling that we don’t follow last year’s pattern of trying to avoid the luxury tax?
Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it.
-Unknown
You know
I think first and foremost it’s great that we have an owner in a small market like SLC that is willing to go into the luxury tax. I’ll admit, that inspires my bones for battle a little. Miller is making this move when he could play it a little more financially cautiously. I hope that it doesn’t become a pattern every year for thirty years or anything, but at the same time, the luxury tax is there for a reason, it is an option if a team wants to take a little bit of a penalty in order to give them a better chance to be as competitive as possible. I applaud the decision by the league to allow for that, and applaud the Jazz’ decision these last couple of years to try it. In a tough setting, where they could stand by, they’re not making their own money their first priority while waiting for their players to age and play out their contracts. It must be such a balancing act trying to acquire new, good talent and work everybody in year-to-year.
Blame where you must, be candid where you can, And be each critic the Good-natured Man. - Oliver Goldsmith (Excellent advice)
Go Jazz! Go Hogs! GO BILLS!
Any predictions for the first Bell vs Matthews matchup?
ya’ll know both these players so well…who comes out on top. (as a preemptive measure, let’s assume they play head to head for 28 minutes).
Peace be unto you my son.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I know it is sad not to see the scrappy, overachieving team we hoped to, but this team is going to be very, very good. Just trust me.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I apologize
for all of my doom and gloom in the period between losing Korver and getting Jefferson. This team is going to be AWESOME
So, this is a good thing, huh......
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