Trade Rumors - Andrei Kirilenko To The Denver Freaking Nuggets As Part Of The Carmelo Anthony Trade?
by Basketball John on Sep 24, 2010 11:19 AM MDT
in Utah Jazz - Trades & Transactions
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No, no, and please no. These discussions could go nowhere but it kills me that this would even be on the table. Should make for a great media day on Monday.
If this did go down, the only reason the Jazz would do this trade would be for a straight salary dump. AK makes $18M, Boris Diaw makes $9M. There's no reason to do a AK/Diaw swap for basketball reasons. None. The fact that he would be traded to a division rival would be a double stomach-punch. One to drop you and one once you're on the ground. Kick a little dirt in your face and you would be done.
Not to mention that Denver would be getting huge cap relief next season. Diaw still has another $9M owed for 2011-12.
There's obviously a lot more details to come and this could just be a lot of smoke, but the fact that this it out there kills me.
Rational thought used in this post, 0.
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I always get mad when I first hear about Jazz trades. But they generally work out in the end for the best. Maybe AK for Diaw is good.
I hated the Brew trade, but it allowed them to get Al.
I hated the Maynor trade, but…. well, I still hate it.
I’m going to try to not hate this one right away.
It saves them like 8 mil. And he’s probably 80% as good maybe…?
Love the poll, exactly like I feel.
Straight salary dump. Why would we need to add another 6’8" PF? Interested to see what the other contracts to be added would include, because Denver getting way too much in my opinion.
AK for Diaw
makes no sense. Plus then we’re sending AK to a division rival.
I’d consider doing it for Wallace + some. But otherwise, there needs to be a lot more coming back to the Jazz.
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Diaw isn't as bad as he seems
I’ll probably be banished for saying this, but I don’t think Diaw for AK would be such a huge loss for the Jazz. He’s roughly the same size as AK, they put up nearly the exact same numbers last season (-.7 steal, -.5 block, +1.3 assists), he’s a year younger, but most importantly, he’s not injured as much as AK. He’s only missed 37 games in a 7 year career with 16 being the most games missed in one season, whereas AK has missed 119 games in the same time frame with 41 being the most he’s missed in one season. Also, in the last three seasons Diaw has only missed one game while AK has missed 49.
So what’s better, AK for between 50-70 games a season at $17mil, or Diaw for a full season at $9mil? Seems like a toss up. If it happens, AK’s defensive intensity and hustle play will be sorely missed, of course. but the Jazz would be making a good financial decision without a huge loss.
Your argument makes sense.
However, the emotional attachment and what AK brings to the Jazz make him worth one more year of his rediculous contract. Locke was saying earlier that the jazz were 5.5 points BETTER on defense with Ak and the Bobcats were 2.2 WORSE with Diaw. That alone makes me want to keep Ak.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I'll never figure out the logic of trading AK now
After five years with that contract, after five years of trying to figure out how and where AK fits into this team — NOW there’s talk of trading him? Really? Now that the contract is just about done? Now that the team figured things out and proved to be awesome with AK?
I’ll never get it.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Yea I don't get it either.
The only answer is to save money. I don’t like it. I want AK retiring here. We’ve had enough turnover with players this season.
AK is way to valuable to dump for Diaw and change. Especially to a division rival.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I want to keep AK too
But I can see where the Jazz are coming from on this trade. They get roughly the same production for more games per season at a lower salary. That doesn’t mean Diaw will bring anywhere near the same intangibles that AK has always provided, but it still makes sense in both a business and basketball standpoint.
Unaminous!
Isn’t it great to see so many other like minded people.
by Toasteroven on Sep 24, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
No way
this would be a stupid move. Boris Diaw?
I don’t care how much this deals saves Utah, it’s just stupid. If we really wanted to trade AK, another stupid idea in and of itself, we could get more than Diaw.
Hopefully this is just all smoke rumor. Don’t do it Utah.
My cousin in Denver says the sports radio lines are blowing up with people pissed about the trade.
They feel like Denver is getting the shaft?! ???
They get the best end of the deal....
but you have to consider who they’re losing. As a Jazz fan I would not be happy with any trade involving D-Will.
by chicagorilla on Sep 24, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Even if D-Will was demanding a trade
and you’d be getting back a top 3 pick, a former all-star who can still contribute at a high level, and multiple first round picks from teams who are likely in the lottery?
They know that Melo is gone. If it were D-Will and it was inevitable he was going to be gone, I’d be pretty pleased with this haul.
The trade helps none of the teams, except maybe the Bobcats
The Nets are left with no Favors and no Devin Harris. They’re still a lottery team.
Nuggets lost their big time scorer and ticket selling attraction.
The Jazz get it worse of all from a basketball sense.
No thank you. Unless all four teams are now really being run by Isaiah Thomas, this is the most ridiculous trade I’ve heard in a while
This would be one of the worst Jazz trades of all time.
Brewer made sense, because why pay him when he was worse than 4 other wings on the team?
Maynor made sense, because he wasn’t important enough to be worth $16 million (that’s what the Jazz saved in that trade).
This?
This would be utterly abominable. I don’t know if I’d ever recover.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
EXACTLY
hate salary dumps but the other two kind of made sense. this makes no sense I hope Gail channels her inner Larry and forbids her son to do such an atrocious trade!
WTF
Only way this trade is good for UT is if it helps us get past the Lakers…..which I don’t think it does. I’d put my money on AK.
If this trade were to happen
I don’t know if I could bear to keep up with the Jazz from now until the start of the season. Too much of a letdown. . . let’s hope it doesn’t happen!
It would be a great trade for Charlotte, New Jersey and Denver.
Charlotte desperately needs a point guard.
It’s a pretty good haul for Denver for losing Melo.
New Jersey gets Melo and will have some cap space if they play it right to add…Chris Paul perhaps.
Obviously you would have to be the biggest AK hater to appreciate this move for the Jazz. No one should be happy in Utah if this trade happens.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Why
Why would Utah trade AK and his expiring contract for Diaw? To avoid tax? Doesn’t seem like the best way to dump salary and doesn’t seem to follow the way the Jazz roll.
Diaw gets $9 mill this year and next.
I think it’s all smoke. Everyone is dying to write something about Melo getting traded. I think someone probably brought up the idea and somehow the media has caught on. I really doubt it happens unless more pieces are involved.
A league source has confirmed that it's in negotiations, which is more than just rumor. It means the teams have contacted the league for approval or at least backup.
It has teeth unfortunately. Whether it gets done is another story. The Jazz could just be exploring their options and may find out that they aren’t getting enough in return. Or they could go through with it and THEN we will have something to talk about.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
We have to believe
That KOC and Greg Miller wouldn’t make such a blatantly bad move. In the long run the saved money won’t be worth it. You get sticked now, sure, but AK will likely re-sign for less money—he’s going to be a great value. If the trade was for Gerald Wallace and a Nets 1st I’d be disappointed, but I’d live. But for Boris Diaw and no picks??? Pass
I agree. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
So you don’t take the chance to salary dump Carlos Boozer when you know he wants similar or better money on his next contract, but you are willing to salary dump AK when you know he will give you some sort of discount in upcoming years? Makes little sense. If AK is traded and doesn’t resign with the Jazz next season then the Jazz will have shown they love Boozer more than AK by about 1000 times.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Any way that AK could pull an Ilgauskas?
by BigIslandBound on Sep 24, 2010 12:51 PM MDT reply actions
Yes. And something that I have considered. What if AK is willing to play for half his money this year?
This is a way to stick it to the league and circumvent the ruling they gave that AK couldn’t restructure his deal. If AK went to Denver and agreed to a, say, $10 million buyout, then he could wait 30 days and rejoin the Utah Jazz and get $10 million plus a veteran contract. He would cost the Jazz only the veteran minimum this year, but still be paid about $12 million. And then he could resign with the Jazz.
This is all VERY unlikely I should stress. It is very dangerous, I must admit. But it would be technically legal under the current CBA.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
I would love that idea
but like you said VERY unlikely. I don’t see Denver willing to pay 10 mil to buy out his contract. Maybe I misunderstood what the post was saying, but it doesn’t seem to give Denver anything in return.
Also, Diaw with AK would be senseless. Too many SFs…I wouldn’t be willing to give up Hayward developing to give Diaw playing time./
It means that if AK agreed, Denver could pay him $10 million to leave the team rather than $17 million to play out the year.
Denver would do backflips if this were the case. AK is just an expiring contract to them. It is usually the player who doesn’t want to leave guaranteed money on the table that nixes a move like this.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
If this trade is true
Then CJ better be ready to step it up this season. I kind of like this trade, though losing AK would seem tough to replace. Especially what he brings on the defensive end.
Overall (outside of th eJazz players) I LOVE this trade because it gets rid of one of the best players in the league from our division. I would be very happy if the trade went down. If somehow we could get AK back, then that would be the icing on the cake of course.
I applaud the Jazz for being so proactive this summer regardless of the trade.
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 1:01 PM MDT reply actions
Sorry, I don't see anything to celebrate
Melo and Denver weren’t really all that much to be scared of. See: 2010 playoffs. Portland and OKC are the teams to be wary of.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
It is always better to have one less team that can beat you on any given night in your division.
I think it is safe to say that Denver was a threat, the Jazz were fortunate to win that series last year. Also, without Denver in the mix we have a better chance of getting a higher seed and avoiding LA in the second round.
I wouldn’t say celebrate, but I am looking for positives. I am not as big a fan of AK as you, so I understand why you wouldn’t see the positives.
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Moni's to terrified and pissed to either talk or write at the moment.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
From Stein Twitter:
STEIN_LINE_HQ
More @Al_Iannazzone: Nets would send J. Hayes to CHA w/Harris & Q-Ross to UTA. As predicted by @johnhollinger, Nets would also get Augustin
Quentin Ross too? SIgn me up. Ross AND Diaw? Holy Hell ! Why hasn't this already happened?
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
GET IT DONE KOC
A steal of this magnitude would almost make up for when Minnesota swindled us out of THE KOOF for that Jefferson guy.
"OK, let’s do this. Let’s play the basketball." - Fes
The Jazz showed they could beat
Denver last year even without AK and OKur and them with Anthony. Anthony leaving the division isn’t a big incentive for me to want to give up AK. Denver doesn’t scare me anymore, esp if AK if healthy.
THe addition of Ross makes this trade all the worse. We pay more money for a player we’d never play.
Nope. I will not be happy if this goes down.
Too horrible to even contemplate
This would be like getting kicked in the groin while your head was imploding in outer space. It would take me ten years to recover from a trade this bad. Mark my word, there will be a mob marching with pitchforks and torches in the streets of SLC if this goes down. (This could be a slight overreaction.)
if this trade went down
I would be torn between boycotting the Jazz financially—no paying to see games, merchandise, concessions, etc, and limiting my fan-ness to ways that doesn’t contribute to management’s pocket, or showing team support regardless of boneheaded decisions they make.
On hand, management owes it to fans to field the best team possible (within reasonable financial means—which AK’s contract is) but on the hand the players and management need true fan support…
Maybe there is some hope KOC wouldn't do this
He said
"O’Connor said Sept. 16 that Kirilenko is “on our team” and that the Jazz were not looking to make any moves involving the ninth-year forward. But O’Connor added that he would not hesitate to explore a deal that would improve Utah’s chances in the highly competitive Western Conference.
“If he plays well, it helps us; it helps him,” O’Connor said. “We don’t talk to Andrei about his contract. But Andrei’s a key for us. And he’s a big key. I think we went 20-4 at one point last season when he was playing very well.”
Of course, cost saving could be a huge motivation, but let’s hope he meant what he said here
KOC is generally a straight shooter and i like that about him
but he refused to admit that the ronnie b trade was a financial one. he kept talking about how the jazz got a future asset (draft pick) out of it.
may as well trade AK now, he’ll miss 40 games this season anyways.
they should have traded him years ago when he had value, the fact that any team would take him off our hands at this point is amazing.
diaw is a decent bench player, much like AK.
sorry guys, i know you love andrei, but lets face it, dude is hurt way too often.
Yeah, and Diaw is the picture of health...
?
"We'll fight for dear 'ol crimson, for a Utah man am I!"
Follow me on twitter: @vizzle07
Will the universe please stop yammering about AK's health "problems"?
2006 – missed 13 games
2007 – missed 12 games
2008 – missed 10 games
2009 – missed 15 games
2010 – missed 24 games
Those are the facts boys and girls. Sure, he hasn’t been as healthy as we’d like. But he hasn’t been close to missing “40 games” or “half the season” that people keep saying and writing about.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
by Yucca Man on Sep 24, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
And as an FYI
Melo’s missed:
2006 – 2 games
2007 – 17 games
2008 – 5 games
2009 – 16 games
2010 – 13 games
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
In the 2005 season
AK missed 41 games…you kinda forgot that part.
PS In that same time frame
Diaw Missed:
2006 – 1 game
2007 – 5 games
2008 – 0 games
2009 – 1 game
2010 – 0 games
That was 6 seasons ago
I don’t think it’s relevant to whether AK is currently injury prone or not
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
how is that not relevant?
up until that time, he had only missed 6 games in 3 seasons. After he missed those 41 games in 04-05 he’s missed an average of 14.8 games per season with a minimum of 10 games. That’s a big chunk of games to be missing, especially when he’s most recently missed 24 games. AK is injury prone, I don’t know how anyone could argue that.
It's not relevant because
it happened 6 years ago and is completely inconsistent with the amount of time he’s missed in the 5 years since.
Yes, he misses games. Yes he’s not healthy nearly as much as we’d like.
But there’s a huge difference between missing half the season and missing an average of 14 games. And AK’s detractors always bring up this “he misses half the season with injuries” BS. And yes, it’s total BS. It’s not even remotely accurate.
So I stand by what I say: the 40 games missed in 2005 is not relevant to analyzing how injury-prone AK is likely to be this year. The subsequent 5 years, which are all within a reasonable range of each other, are the ones to look at.
I don’t argue AK isn’t injury prone. I do say accusing AK of sitting in street clothes half the time is totally inaccurate, and it annoys me when people use BS arguments to dis one of my favorite players.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I'm not saying he's out half the time
But you can’t say the 04-05 season is irrelevant. He broke his wrist and missed half the season. It’s just one in a long list of injuries that have happened since (i.e. back, ankle, etc..)
You’re just picking and choosing facts to support your frustration with AK being a part of trade talks. Ignoring the fact that he missed 41 games due to injury in 05 and calling it irrelevant to his injury prone reputation is rather childish.
You didn't say he was out half of the time.
But the original comment in this particular thread did. Would it kill you to read the whole thing, to follow the conversation before you posted, before accusing me of being childish?
Seriously, dude. Most of this thread wasn’t about either you or anything you said.
Up above “AK will miss 40 games this season anyway.” Or maybe read below “AK spends 40% of his time in street clothes.” Those are the specific things I responded to. My claim is these are complete exaggerations. My claim is these don’t reflect how much AK typically plays, contributes, etc.
Just because you posted that he missed 40 games 6 years ago somewhere in the middle of a comment thread doesn’t mean that the rest of the conversation (especially the stuff previously) was about that.
And again, that injury 6 years ago was totally irrelevant to my point. And it had nothing to do with the original accusation — that AK will probably miss half the games this season anyway.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I read the whole thing
But seriously DUDE you were conveniently excluding the 04-05 season to support your argument, so somebody had to call you out on it.
AK has had injuries
including the 04-05 season. Every players has injuries. (Unless you’re Karl Malone)
Pau Gasol only played 65 games last years. Dwayne Wade has had injury bouts. Chris Paul. You don’t see their teams beating down the door to trade them.
From a pure basketball level AK is better than Diaw. I would take 65 games of AK then 82 of Diaw. I really would.
So I guess I should have said
he hasn’t been close to missing half a season in the past five years, and only missed half a season once in his entire career.
I suppose that changes everything.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I'm with Yucca Man on this
The 40 games he missed in 05 probably have been part of what made him injury prone, but are not indicative of the time he’s missed since. I notice that you’re getting bent out of shape because Yucca excluded AK’s 40 game season in 05, while not mentioning the fact that he also excluded the seasons before that when AK almost never missed a game. Who’s picking and choosing their data now? Does it make sense to include those seasons? No. It was a long time ago when AK was young and before he had endured any major injuries. But it also doesn’t make sense then to include a season that was a long time ago that according to the data is an aberration.
You’re just getting to lost in calling someone out, and you’re not listening to his perfectly valid explanation of what he did.
by snakenamedjoe on Sep 25, 2010 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions
havent won anything with andrei, its time to part ways. its scary to think how good the jazz would be IF he could stay healthy, but arent we tired of IF’s?
what IF Fesenko grows into his potential?
what IF, what IF, blah blah, lets win!
And after 12 seasons
we hadn’t won anything with Stockton and Malone. Maybe we should have traded them for LaPhonso Ellis and Rod Strickland back in ’96.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Somewhere Kahn is thinking
That’s what I’ve been saying for years!
"We'll fight for dear 'ol crimson, for a Utah man am I!"
Follow me on twitter: @vizzle07
And I'm sorry I'm testy and a bit snippy about all this
Andrei’s one of my favorite players ever. I think he’s by far the 2nd best guy on the team, I think his contributions help them win and play well more than anyone not named Deron. I think AK’s ridiculously underrated, and I’ve been so excited to see a whole season with him this year — after the the Jazz FINALLY figured out how to make him fit in well.
And I think Andrei’s been unfairly slammed and criticized and moaned about to the point of ridiculousness — all because his outside shot is ugly and he doesn’t score 20-per game.
So yeah, I get annoyed when the Jazz lack of a championship or ability to get past the Lakers is somehow blames all on AK.
We haven’t won with Deron, either — yet nobody’s suggesting we ship him out for Anthony Carter.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
no surprise i agree with yucca man again
what he writes is the stuff that’s in my head, but instead of words and exclamation points floating around they’re placed in a coherent order.
yep
wouldn’t be surprised if there were message boards back in the day if there would have been ‘those’ type of fans who would have every season wanted to trade Stockton and Malone.
AK is the 2nd best player by far on this team. He is a game changer. Diaw won’t even come close.
joked on Twitter yesterday that hopefully that bundle of money (like on Geico commercials) can come out and defend Kobe, block shots, make the extra pass and play help defense can Diaw certainly won’t!
This is a great idea!
We can take the $9 million dollars we save and give it to our players, and every time an opposing player takes a shot that we really want them to miss, we’ll just hit them in the face with a back of nickels!
by snakenamedjoe on Sep 25, 2010 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
your crush on AK has to end sometime guys, he’s gone after this year anyways.
and i’m glad the day is nearing, tired of seeing him in street clothes 40% of every season.
I guess you can't do math can you?
Add up the missed games. Divide it by total games possible.
And you’ll come up with an accurate percentage of games missed.
Hint: he’s been in street clothes less than 20% of the time in the past 5 years.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
While I do agree with you and think that AK is very valuable
The injury concern is valid. Just be cause he only missed that many games, how many games did he suit up in, but wasn’t 100%? It seems like he is dinged all the time, and not playing at 100% very much. It is hard to get consistency that way. I agree though, when AK is healthy and confident, he is probably the Jazz’s 3rd best player and maybe the second most game-changing.
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Concern for AK's injury history is completely valid.
Accusing AK of missing half the games is not.
And figuring out AK’s importance and contributions team CANNOT be done accurately with this kind of BS accusation, either.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Karl Malone
was dinged up and not playing 100% almost his entire career. Kobe Bryant has been dinged up and not playing 100% the last couple seasons. Deron Williams has been dinged up and not playing 100% for almost all of the last 2-3 seasons. This is the NBA. Everyone is dinged up and not playing 100% during every game after October. Either that, or they’re Carlos Boozer, and they sit out every time they get a hangnail.
You can’t call a player injury prone because he gets dinged up. That just means he’s human. You call a player injury prone if he misses a lot of games. Is AK injury prone? Sure. A bit. He’s not Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, or Carlos Boozer injury prone, but he is injury prone. But that’s only because he plays so hard. He throws himself into the game, he’s bound to get beat up. Personally, that’s the kind of guy I want on my team.
by snakenamedjoe on Sep 25, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
he’s gone after this year anyways.
Where are you getting that? All indications have been that AK is willing to and wants to resign with the Jazz (for considerably less money) after his current contract ends.
"We'll fight for dear 'ol crimson, for a Utah man am I!"
Follow me on twitter: @vizzle07
he was NOT gone after this year
he has said that he hopes to retire a jazzman and wants to sign for less money when his contract is up.
ak loves the Jazz
I have heard him say it several times so you know its not just lip service. Seriously they could have gotten tax relief from Boozer yet they chose to do it now wiht AK
You aren't going to win this argument here. It's fun that you have an opinion.
Henry Abbott said that AK could be confused for the MVP of the league during our 20-4 stretch last season. A non Jazz fan saying that he looked like an MVP and he wasn’t kidding. That has never been said of another Jazz player for years.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
Ak's contract sucks
and as much as I love his game hes only marginally better than Diaw and is half price. If the FO thinks they can get close to the same play out of Diaw for half the price then it’s a good business decision.
How in the world does this make us worse
Diaw puts up better stats, and ak is overpaid. Their both bench players and can fill similar roles but for much less. Stop freaking out just cause yall love AK it almost a wash.
Did you watch any Jazz games last year?
How did the team do with AK starting vs coming off the bench?
Who do you want guarding Kevin Durrant? Diaw or AK?
"We'll fight for dear 'ol crimson, for a Utah man am I!"
Follow me on twitter: @vizzle07
You're setting yourself up for some mockery, vizzle07
I was told during my “we have to keep Wesley Matthews” rants way back in July that my opinions based on watching games were stupid, ignorant, and absurd (and it was suggested I turn in my teaching certificate at one point, because who knows what junk I must be filling my students’ heads with) — because opinions based on stats are the only ones that matter.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Stats
AK Career:
12.4 pts, 2.1 blocks, 5.7 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 51% fg
Diaw career:
9.6 pts, .6 blocks, 4.8 rebounds, 4 assists, 50% fg
Diaw puts up demonstrably worse stats, except for a slight edge in assists. AK has better stats the last couple of years, as well, not just career. Oh, and AK can actually play defense, which constitutes actually one half of basketball, so that’s nice. It is not a wash in any way, AK is WAY better.
You should only include stats for the last 3 years
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions
3 year stats. Guess who is who.
YR G GS MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
2007-2008 72 72 30.8 0.506 0.379 0.77 1.2 1.5 4.7 4 11 17.11
2008-2009 67 10 27.3 0.449 0.274 0.785 1.2 1.1 4.8 2.6 11.6 16.82
2009-2010 58 35 29 0.506 0.292 0.744 1.4 1.2 4.5 2.7 11.9 18.25
Avg 65 39 29.03 0.49 0.32 0.77 1.2 1.2 4.7 3.1 11.50 17.39
YR G GS MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
2007-2008 82 19 28.1 0.477 0.317 0.744 0.7 0.5 4.6 3.9 8.8 11.97
2008-2009 22 0 24.5 0.567 0.357 0.692 0.5 0.4 3.8 2.1 8.3 14.5
2008-2009 59 58 37.6 0.495 0.419 0.686 0.8 0.7 5.9 4.9 15.1
2009-2010 82 82 35.4 0.483 0.32 0.769 0.7 0.7 5.2 4 11.3 12.8
Avg 61 39.8 31.4 0.506 0.35 0.723 0.7 0.6 4.9 3.7 10.9 13.09
by scrantonicity33 on Sep 24, 2010 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Disregard this.
It looked a lot better in my little box. Suffice it to say AK is significantly better than Diaw and this trade is stupid.
by scrantonicity33 on Sep 24, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's the past 3 years:
Here’s their stats per 36 minutes:
AK: 14.3 ppg, 5.3 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.5 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 2.5 fouls, 49% FG, 76% FT, 31% three’s
Diaw: 12.3 ppg, 5.6 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.7 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 2.6 fouls, 49% FG, 73% FT, 35% TP
AK’s better. This trade is terrible.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Those Stats show that
AK is better. But he is not that much better. I’m not sure if he is 9 million better or whatever the number is. According to the stats at least. Then again AK’s game can’t be measured by stats all the time. At least not when I watch the games. I don’t think that the stat argument is a good one for those who want to keep AK.
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
An argument was made that Diaw actually put up better stats (read above) and was therefore better
I’m the first guy in the world to jump to AK’s defense based on intangibles, anecdotal stuff, i.e. the stuff not in the stat sheets.
But Scrantoncity wanted to show that even saying Diaw’s stats are better is bogus. And it is. I was trying to be helpful. :)
There is simply not any argument that can be made that this trade makes the Jazz better. Not stats. Not intangibles. Not salary situation this year (they’ll still be over the cap, so it’s not like they’ll suddenly have all this flexibility that they wouldn’t have before). Not salary situation next year.
If it happens it’s in order to save money without any thought for making the team better.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
In the long run
it gives the Jazz worse financial flexibility. AK’s contract will come off, Diaw has 2 years left. We are going to want that cap space to re-sign guys, get other FAs, possibly bring over Tomic.
This deal may save the JAzz money, but from a basketball and a long run stand point, it doesn’t help.
exactly
It saves the Jazz money this year.
But it doesn’t give them salary flexibility to make any additional moves that would be impossible with AK. Even the salary dump does nothing to help the team be as competitive as possible.
It really, really, really sucks.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Even worse...
we’d have to take Ross.
Do we really want to have Ross over, say, THompson or Evans?
We do not need this trade. If Greg Miller is that strapped for cash, I’ll personally send him a box of Ramen.
I don't know if I had even heard of Ross before
I looked him up, and holy crap he really sucks. Oh my golly.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I was replying to the guy who posted the career stats for both guys.
The nI responded to your post that showed stats and said that AK was better (implying that the stats said that? I think at least – if not then We agree Ak is better, but not really by the stats). The original post that said Diaw has better stats was wrong , yes.
Wont AK leaving lead to all the other guys improving and maybe even being better vis-vis the Ewing theory? A joke.
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions
You got me to laugh
A first for everything, right?
And no, Ewing theory doesn’t apply. Ewing theory only happens when players get way more credit than they deserve. AK gets bashed way more than he deserves. So it’s like a reverse Ewing Theory. :)
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Yup
that’s what I was trying to show, not even showing the intangibles. His PER is significantly better as well. Thanks for finishing those 3 year stats Yucca Man :)
by scrantonicity33 on Sep 24, 2010 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
If this really happens
Greg Miller better offer some really cheap tickets this year. He’ll be nothing but a cheap owner to me if this goes through.
by scrantonicity33 on Sep 24, 2010 2:17 PM MDT reply actions
WTF?
does Diaw have anything on youtube like this?
http://www.slcdunk.com/2010/9/7/1675410/step-right-up-and-get-your-andrei
You can't look at a stat sheet
and tell everything that a player does well. Stats can also be misleading. I bet the worse player in the league could average 30 points playing at the Jr High Level. My comparison is a bit off, but you get the idea. Relying on a stat sheet to tell you everything about a player is like trying to get full off looking at pictures of food. They look pretty, but does nothing for your hunger.
The Jazz would be foolish to let this trade happen.
they don't keep stats for number of gauze pads worn on knees during the season
due to floor burns from diving for loose balls.
Only way I like this
is if the jazz somehow convince ak to work out a buyout and come back with the jazz this year for less money. Otherwise this is a cheap skate move and I will be freaking pissed.
by jake1ar on Sep 24, 2010 3:36 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Even that makes no sense.
Then you’ve got a log jam at SF. Diaw takes time away from Hayward or Evans getting playing time. No thanks. I’d rather develop a rookie than pay AK money and pay Diaw 9 million to be a back up.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
What if the Jazz also are picking up a draft pick?
just sayin’…..
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 4:48 PM MDT reply actions
Better be a dang
good one
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
I'd only feel better if that pick
was from the Nets. Notice I said “better” but it would still be crappy
@NYDNInterNets: Reliable source: Carmelo has approved the deal to the Nets.
Looks like it is a done deal. Kind of a shocker if this is actually reliable. I still didn’t really think it would happen. According to Locke guest (only read tweet so can’t say for sure) Diaw is more of a 4 than a 3.
by davidthecomposer on Sep 24, 2010 5:47 PM MDT reply actions
I feel like this is a pretty significant
step back from the strides we made this offseason. I can’t believe this is really going to happen. I hope there is more to the deal than just Diaw. Draft picks?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
What is Charlotte giving up here?
why wouldn’t the Jazz just take Harris? He makes roughly the same as Diaw.
by Brigadier Pudding on Sep 24, 2010 6:25 PM MDT reply actions
We could flip Harris for a better player than Boris freaking Diaw
I’d rather run a two PG backcourt than trade AK for Diaw. This is terrible.
by Brigadier Pudding on Sep 24, 2010 6:31 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd rather take Birdman.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
that's why this is a four way trade
Utah doesn’t want Harris, and the proposed replacement player is Diaw.
Jazz needs
interior defense
perimeter shooting
How does Diaw address those? Oh yeah, he doesn’t. This deal is about saving Greg Miller’s money.
by Brigadier Pudding on Sep 24, 2010 6:36 PM MDT up reply actions
but considering what happened last playoffs...
if you can save money, why not save money with a taller player than a short one who’s made redundant by your should have been All-Star point guard?
Salt Lake area restaurants
applaud the Diaw acquisition.
by Brigadier Pudding on Sep 24, 2010 6:40 PM MDT reply actions
What's funny is
for the first time in SIX YEARD the Jazz could use AK’s contract to their benefit.
And they end up trading him for Boris Steak and Eggs Diaw.
by Brigadier Pudding on Sep 24, 2010 6:47 PM MDT reply actions
my head asplode again
also apparently locke is man enough to talk shit about me on air, but too pussy to reply to me outside of DMs
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Sep 24, 2010 7:04 PM MDT reply actions
Lol what'd he say?
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
Oh well
If you can’t accept the financial realities of rooting for the jazz, go root for the lakers. We’re likely talking about $15 million dollars. I can accept those savings as a legitimate reason to trade AK. I don’t doubt that the jazz will be competitively worse for the trade. But the fact is we’re approaching logjam levels at some positions. We have young players that need to be developed and given their opportunity. For me the question is, “Is the difference in production between AK and whatever we get (Diaw?) really worth $10,000,000-$15,000,000?” for me the answer is no.
by tyrantking on Sep 25, 2010 2:05 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
I just don't see a silver lining in this.
1. Adding Diaw creates a logjam considering he’s more of a 4, what do we do when Memo comes back.
2. ANY expiring contract is worth more than what we’re getting in return on this trade, and AK if healthy is an excellent addition to a team immediately competing for a championship.
3. Is $10-15 mil worth competing for a championship? Because with what Diaw brings to the table, I don’t see the Jazz having a fighting chance at winning a championship in the near future.
4. If Diaw doesn’t fit in and is subtraction by addition this season, why does that help Deron stay? We’ve all seen the chemistry he has with AK
5. AK has given all indication that he’d like to stay at a cheaper rate after the season ends, I don’t think that happens if he gets traded. This depends on your opinion of his value at a lower salary.
This year
We would save money. The money we save would be more than worth the production we would lose (unless we lose our chance at a championship over this). Next year, we would lose out on AK’s production at a lower rate. If we keep AK there’s every indication he’ll sign next year for $7-9 million.
Also, we show Deron Williams that we are not serious about being competitive, that we’re willing to sacrifice the team’s future for a little cap relief this year. Deron already feels that way because of the Maynor and Brewer salary dumps last year (which I supported for the most part). This will just be solidifying that. We may as well just save some time and include D-Will in the trade. Send him the NJ to make his super team with Melo. Maybe we could at least get Devin Harris so that we get a solid PG in return.
by snakenamedjoe on Sep 25, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Clarification
I meant 2 in regard to a trade deadline deal.
Go read the Bobcats page
They are loving the idea of Diaw for harris! One guy commented how horrendous this is for the Jazz.
I have hopes this is all just a bad dream. But if this trade goes down, JAzz management needs to know most fans aren’t happy.
Petition of disgrunt anyone? At the least I’m going to call/email them and let them know it was not a good move, that Jazz fans deserve better.
this is stupid. that’s the only way to describe this. Stupid.
Jazz fans deserve better than this.
good trade for everyone but the Jazz
I hate that this might go down. Of course the bobcat fans love it they make out like bandits. Denver gets a ton for Melo. NJ gets Melo what do the Jazz get a fat PF!
it's a bad dream
Follow me on Twitter: AllThatAmar
Check out: slcdunk.com
E-Mail me at: allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com
Really, I'm totally not lonely or anything . . .
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Sep 25, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
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