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The Boys Are Back In Town - The Downbeat - #633

Training camp and free agency officially start in a week but things are going as planned. Remember, the lockout hasn't been officially lifted yet. However, the players union officially reformed yesterday after receiving over 300 forms from the players. They will officially vote next week to accept the CBA on the 8th according to Marc Stein. NBA.com has finally reverted back to previous form and UtahJazz.com is showing players again.

While CJ was at the practice facility late Wednesday night, more players joined Thursday with Paul Millsap and Devin Harris reporting. The only people more giddy about being back in the gym are the reporters who get to ask basketball questions now. And with Millsap back, the trade rumors are going to come up. From Jody Genessy,

"I hope I'm here. This is the team that drafted me. I hope to be here for many years," Millsap said. "In the case that it don't happen, you've got to move on."

All I have to say to that is that when you have so many quality players that don't want to come to Utah via free agency, shouldn't you hold on to the ones that want to stay here? That's not saying that any of the other players don't want to be here, but shouldn't we keep the ones that do? We traded a player on a gut feeling that he didn't want to be here yet Karl Malone openly stated several times that he had played his last game in a Jazz uniform and we managed to keep him here.

If it gets to the point where Millsap isn't happy with his role here -- whatever that becomes -- and the team can get good value in return, then so be it. But shouldn't your gut feeling tell you that he wants to be here?

Despite "irresponsible" media members leaking these details a couple of days ago, the Jazz officially announced that the team will play their two preseason games against the Blazers with one at home on the 21st and in Portland on the 19th. There will also be a free open scrimmage on Saturday, December 17th. Tickets to the pre-season game can be found here. They range from $8 to $100.

The regular season schedule won't be released until December 6th when it will be revealed on NBA TV. They've never made a big deal out of the schedule release before but I'm guessing that NBA TV is hurting for anything right now. No word on whether Stern will be wearing a plaid shirt and if the schedule won't be announced until five minutes before the special ends. I suspect though that there will be leaks prior to Tuesday.

Randy Rigby stated on KFAN the other day that he expects the Jazz to have more B2B2B games that most because of their insistence of no Sunday games at home. Every team will have at least one and the most a team will have is three. Don't be surprised then if the Jazz are one of the teams with three.

Travis Hansen spoke with Andrei Kirilenko recently on the NBA, adoption, the Jimmer, and the Book of Mormon. Hansen played in Russia and knows AK while they both trained for the Russian national team. Hansen was granted dual citizenship. AK on his return to the NBA,

Before Dec. 9th I will listen to offers from the NBA. I am happy in CSKA and it will be a tough decision. Utah Jazz is in my heart and is on the priority list. I will look at everything on the table. You know here in Russia my kids are in school, the team is great and I have been playing really well. It will be a difficult decision.

I haven't gotten the feeling that the Jazz want him back. I'm sure there will be discussions but it seems as if he's not part of the overall plan and the direction that the team are going. He stated that he's looking to play three to four more years.

Brian T. Smith reported that the Jazz haven't actively pursued AK while they have looked into a few other FAs,

Utah has expressed initial exploratory interest in unrestricted free agents Rasual Butler, Sebastian Telfair and Roger Mason, a source said. Meanwhile, a source close to forward Andrei Kirilenko gave no indication the Jazz are actively attempting to re-sign him. Kirilenko did draw immediate interest from multiple teams, though.

I think AK will get an offer he can't refuse from another team. It won't be for money though, it will be because of opportunity.

In that same BTS article, he lists what the Jazz are apparently looking for in free agency,

The main areas the Jazz are expected to target during free agency: two backup point guard spots, small forward and perhaps shooting guard.

With at least three more players, that would put the roster at twelve. Again, I would be shocked if Earl Watson isn't brought back. Ronnie Price also expressed a desire to stay with the team.

Greg tweeted out this home video -- which moni had linked to the day before -- showing players getting ready for a playoff basketball game. That video spawned one of the greatest gifs of all-time from moni,

Whiteguy_medium

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1 and 3

Curious if you think the Millsap part—holding onto players that want to stay in Utah—applies to AK as well?

5. Can anyone identify the guy in the gif? I tried looking up pictures of all the white guys I didn’t know listed on the Jazz’s roster that year but, well, they all kind of looked the same back in the day with the fluffy hair and all that.

by moni on Dec 2, 2011 6:51 AM MST reply actions  

1. It still kills me that Deron was a top-10 player, he liked living in Utah and playing for the Jazz, and not he’s gone. He never pined for the brighter lights. He just got frustrated that the team seemed to be getting worse and worse.

1 & 3 – I know the age/injury concerns with AK. Ignoring the concerns, if they can only keep one guy I’d rather it was AK—he’s better than Sap, he won’t go through a disgruntled period because he’s put in a secondary role, his skills would better fit a secondary role than Sap’s, and his skills are the ones I’d love the other guys to learn from him.

4. My bet is Ronnie P. and Earl are back.

Can anyone explain why a team would rather have Roger Mason or Rasual Butler over AK? I mean, WTF?

5. I think it’s Bobby Hansen. And the gif is freaking awesome.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 8:09 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

I am curious about what the Jazz are thinking in showing interest in Roger Mason, Rasual Butler and Sebastion Telfair.

What don’t they add Jarron Collins to that list of absolute “stiffs” and then it will be complete.

The only reason I can see for the Jazz not being interested in re-signing Kirilenko and Watson is that the Jazz want to insure that they will have a lottery pick in the 2012 draft.

Also, even though we currently have a logjam at the “big” positions, I think Fesenko brings something to the Jazz that is hard to find (ability to guard really big or really good centers) at a low price, so he should be re-signed as well—looking to the future when Okur will probably no longer be with the team, and probably either Jefferson or Millsap will no longer be with the team.

I’d like to see the Jazz re-sign Kirilenko, Watson and Fesenko, and then get down to business in the preseason, rather than dinking around with absolutely worthless free agents like Roger Mason, Rasual Butler and Sebastion Telfair. Did Kevin O’Connor become a complete moron during the lockout?

by Fesenko for President on Dec 2, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

If we thought Raja Bell was bad last year

He’d look like MJ compared to Butler, Mason, and Telfair. Holy crap. (however, there’s a good chance this scoop by BTS is totally untrue, since KOC usually reveals nothing)

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions  

KOC is probably sending this out in public so Kahn can overpay for them.

Kahn will be like: "

“Ha! KOC wanted them, but I got them first! I can’t wait to put Telfair and his sub 40% shooting percentage in my starting line – up. Telfair and Darko in the same lineup! Who cares if I can’t afford Kevin Love when his contract is finished.”

Seriously, though. Yeah, might as well just resign AK if these are the other options.

BRIAN W BROCKHOFF

by brock38 on Dec 2, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

I hate disagreeing with you

but Deron wasn’t staying here IMO.

For the Love of the Game

Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!

MonSTARZ forever!

by ForTheLove on Dec 2, 2011 5:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Prior to the Ronnie B. trade

he was going to.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 6:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Why would it have made a difference?

We weren’t going to resign Brewer after the year, so the front office thought we could get something for him now and his backup is better than he is. So if we didn’t trade him then we would have let him go in the off-season for nothing. I don’t think that would have made Deron happy.

Even if we did bring him back, Ronnie doesn’t make last years team better and I don’t think in the long run would have changed how Deron felt about staying. Really Ronnie is a guy that couldn’t take the starting spot on a team with Keith Bogans. He was replaced the year before with an undrafted rookie and the the team did better with the rookie. I like Ronnie, but he is nothing more than a bench player and I highly doubt over the long haul would have made a difference in Deron signing an extension. Put it this way, you don’t see the Nets trying to get him so that Deron will sign an extension with them.

by BobbyD31 on Dec 3, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions  

The Ronnie B. trade made a difference because of what it represented to Deron:

A salary dump (of one of his better friends) instead of a trade to bring in someone better.

Deron’s first “that’s why I only signed a 3-year extension” came in response to that trade. Prior to the trade he lived in Utah full time, he hung out at Costco’s to be around fans, he threw parties for his scrub teammates and invited the fans to join, he did every goofy Jazz-marketing thing he could think of during the summer, he teamed with KK for Dodge Barrage — everything he did showed a guy who liked it here and was prepared to stay here for the long haul.

He had expressed little hints of frustration with the management in the past: saying he sees other teams making moves to try to get better, but the Jazz generally just bring the same guys back (a slightly unfair statement, I think — there was the KK trade, for example).

So what happens the next season: the Jazz make two trades that bring absolutely NOBODY back. If you look at the salaries the Jazz traded (Harpring, Maynor, Brewer), that would have been enough to get Gerald Wallace.

From Deron’s perspective, the front office showed its true colors at the Ronnie B. trade — that it would rather save money than bring in more talent.

I understand and agree with a lot of what you wrote about the trade. But what it meant to Deron was something else. And the the Jazz did the same kind of thing over the summer: letting KK go without a fight, letting Wesley Matthews go without a fight.

When Deron threw the ball at Gordon in Game 2, how much was he imagining what it would be like if the Jazz had Wesley or KK instead? When Raja stunk, how much did he stew about the team letting Wesley go and signing Raja because he was cheaper?

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 4, 2011 12:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Sorry, I'm getting my seasons mixed up

Portland got Gerald Wallace the next year, not the same one Harpring, Maynor, and Brewer were traded.

But the idea is the same. Deron felt like other teams made trades to improve the team, while the Jazz were interested in just dumping salary. It finally broke his connection to the team and community when Brewer was traded. And, sadly, the Jazz letting go of KK and Matthews and replacing them with Gordon and Raja did nothing to change his mind about the team’s commitment to winning.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 4, 2011 12:23 AM MST up reply actions  

Two quick retorts.

The Jazz weren’t better post trade than they were before the trade. It isn’t true.

Two, Ronnie Brewer played five more minutes a game than Bogans, so it isn’t fair to say that he couldn’t beat out Bogans for starting. He beat him out for minutes and that is all that counts.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Dec 4, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions  

The best Jazz basketball we have seen since 1999 ...

Was January to February 2010. The two months BEFORE the Brewer trade.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 4, 2011 9:43 PM MST up reply actions  

For the money, and the fit with the system, I think all the free agents the Jazz need to sign were on the Jazz team last season.

I see no reason to bring Elson back, but lots of reasons to bring back some combination (if not all) of Kirilenko, Watson, Fesenko and Price—especially in the shortened season.

by Fesenko for President on Dec 2, 2011 8:47 AM MST reply actions  

great stuff

1. I have loved Paul Millsap in Utah. If he is willing to accept that he isn’t going to be a 35-minute a night guy here, and that he might be back to the bench sometime in the future, than yeah, keep him. If he is set on being a starter for life, it might be time to deal him.

2. A nod to BTS with the quotes? As I said on twitter the other night, BTS drives me nuts on twitter. I never see him respond to fans questions. Jody ALWAYS responds. Thats why I unfollowed BTS. Anyone who uses twitter for the sole purpose of promoting their own brand and does not acknowledge their followers is a joke. That had nothing to do with #2 here, but I wanted to get it off my chest.

Its good to see that the schedule will take shape soon. Basketball is almost here, and its exciting!

3. In prior editions, I thought that this Travis Hansen interview series had been rather gimicky. Course, Im a die-hard ute and “Elder 8 Mile” is one of my least favorite zoobs of all time, so maybe im biased. This one was an interesting read. Don’t think bringing back AK is a good idea, but Im grateful for him, ill always cheer for him, wish it had worked out better for him here.

4. Earl Watson should be first priority. I REALLY want him back. I always love Ronnie P’s energy. Anyone know how his health is? Don’t mind him as a 12th man combo guard. Just need one more wing.

5. I have absolutely no comment.

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 2, 2011 8:59 AM MST reply actions  

how often?

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 2, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

hmmm

i guess my questions have been too dumb or he didn’t have time. I don’t know, people who use twitter to just promote their own stuff and don’t acknowledge their followers rub me the wrong way. He seemed to me to be “that guy”, but maybe ill give him another chance.

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 2, 2011 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

You know....

This is probably wishful thinking, but I do believe Deron Williams…

A. Has not signed an extension with the Nets

B. Loves Utah and the fans

C. The Jazz will potentially have lots of cap room

I think it would be in Utah’s best interest to show Deron as much appreciation as possible when he visits ESA.

I doubt that the Jazz would actually aquire him via free agency. But if they did, somehow, get him back to Utah, Could you imagine him, Burks, Gordon, and Favors? Also, the Nets would would forever hate us.

BRIAN W BROCKHOFF

by brock38 on Dec 2, 2011 9:38 AM MST reply actions  

Bassy, Butler and Mason?

Really?

I obviously understand not wanting to break the bank for a back up 1 or 2, but c’mon guys…

Kev, you need to get Mike Redd on the phone.

Party.

by joeydang3r on Dec 2, 2011 9:53 AM MST reply actions  

3

Not buying it. I’m pretty sure the Jazz have their own agenda when ‘leaking’ info to BTS, of all people.

by SurlyMae on Dec 2, 2011 10:23 AM MST reply actions  

Also, apparently, Butler’s locked up in Spain for the year. So, yeah, probably total BS.

Party.

by joeydang3r on Dec 2, 2011 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

BS? FROM BTS?

NO WAY!

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 2, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions  

My dream team for this year:

Starters:

C – Memo
F – Favors
SF – AK/CJ
SG – Gordon
PG – ????

Bench:

Fes
Kanter
AK/CJ
Burks
Evans
Earl

Sap, Al, and Devin traded for a PG (like Kyle Lowry, Ramon Sessions, etc.), future picks, and maybe a young SF with potential (I’m definitely not dead-set on CJ—and I think AK will hold up best playing about 20-24 minutes per game).

I don’t think the team would kick butt. But it would give the right amount of playing time to the young guys. It keeps Memo, AK, and Fes (the guys that I think are ideal vets to be the bench as the young players emerge and become the main guys). It loads the team with draft picks for the next couple of years. It keeps the team salary situation in a reasonable shape for the Deron Williams return pipe-dream.

I think they’d win about 20 games this year, but set firmly on a good path for the future.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 10:44 AM MST reply actions  

There is probably a 0.001% chance of Deron coming back

But, if he did, it would be the NBA coup of the century and I would laugh for hours about it.

by prodigal punk on Dec 2, 2011 11:11 AM MST up reply actions  

co-sign

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 2, 2011 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

That's why I labeled it as a pipe-dream

It’s my dream, and I’ll put whoever I want in it :)

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions  

you would trade

Sap Al, and Devin for kyle lowry or ramon sessions? I feel like that’s a little steep, especially given the lack of quality pgs that are on the market (not including cp3) Harris is older than lowery by 3 years. Other than that, IMO, Harris is a better pg than he and most other pgs we could acquire. Definitely wouldn’t want to waste millsap and al jef like that…

Louisiana Jazz fan

by TBKIII on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Plus a gaggle of picks in the next 3 years

Plus any young stud SF’s we could get.

I’m not talking salary dump.

3 guys for Lowry?

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Don't know what the hell happened in my comment above.

Should end:

3 guys for Lowry is getting WAY too little.

3 guys for Lowry, a good, young SF, and a bunch of 1st round picks in the next 2-3 years? That makes sense to me.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 2, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions  

i can agree with that

we just have an abundance of talent and value on our roster and i hope we get the maximum for whoever we do decide to trade. if we could get a lottery pick or 2 in this draft, that would sweeten the deal ALOT. I think we should start out the season with this team and see who fits in and what our rookies look like, and then decide who to trade. Burks could end up being more of a pg judging on his play style in college. I know that’s wishful thinking but it not impossible.

Louisiana Jazz fan

by TBKIII on Dec 2, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions  

How about Rondo?

Been thinking about it the past few days and I think Rondo is a possibility. Trade Harris and Al for Rondo, O’Neal, and Boston’s 2012 first rounder from the Clippers and maybe cash. Rondo brings awesome passing back, intense defense, steals, championship experience, and he’s locked up for the next 4 years. O’Neal would bet our big man vet presence and Boston would want us to take him off their hands(I saw him this summer though and he actually looked pretty good). Al gives them their low post scoring that they need and Harris will be a legitimate replacement. Plus, who knows, maybe Hornaceck is the key to improving Rondo’s shooting problems.

by Hestari on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions  

I have wondered about Horny helping Rondo too......

I suspect that the Jazz are keeping an eye out for an elite point guard. ( they are used to having the best…) Maybe Rondo could be it. We’ll need all the help we can get on D this year. (esp if AK is gone. )

by Big_B on Dec 2, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd avoid Ramon Sessions

I have never seen anything about him that makes me like his play. Kyle Lowry would be freaking sweet however.

by Evans Almighty on Dec 2, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Kyle Lowry is the expletive

He would solve a lot of our problems, He shoots a high percentage and defends really well, especially on the perimeter, however I don’t think he’s available, and I don’t know how interested Houston really is in our assets.

I think with all the talk of the Pacers interest in Millsap, we should pull the trigger on something like Millsap and Price for Posey and Collison. Posey would be a nice backup stopgap while we sort out our wings, he isn’t going to add to our wins, but he expires at the end of the year and adds veteran depth. Collison would benefit from a year backing up Harris, and make a good PG of the future. Oh and he is 2 years younger than Lowry.

by Kfunk on Dec 2, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

No please.

The only way we should trade Sap is for good value. Collison is ok, but averages less points and assists with a lower TS% than Harris. So he isn’t as good as Harris and read his scouting repor from Hollinger at ESPN:

“+ Waterbug point guard with accurate shot, but rarely takes 3s. Great foul shooter.

+ Can get to rim and finish. Pushes tempo but doesn’t distribute; thinks shoot-first.

+ Moves well laterally but tiny build. Rarely fouls. Horrific plus-minus in ’10-11.

Collison’s plus-minus numbers from last season are just spectacularly awful. As with Brandon Rush, some of this is likely because Indy had a relatively strong bench and relatively weak starters, but nonetheless … the Pacers were a jaw-dropping 16.38 points per 100 possessions worse with Collison on the floor, according to basketballvalue.com. That was the single worst figure in basketball."

Posey is dead weight at this point and shot the ball worse than CJ last year. Why in the world would the Jazz give up Millsap for an expiring contract and a PG that does all the things that Harris does only not as well? We should be able to get more value than that for Millsap.

by BobbyD31 on Dec 2, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd start Gordon at SF

and start Burks at SG. Have CJ come off bench as a SG and AK come off bench as SF.

Everything else I agree with.

For the Love of the Game

Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!

MonSTARZ forever!

by ForTheLove on Dec 2, 2011 5:56 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't see how you can start Burks at this point.

HE needs to earn it. Right now I am almost certain that he isn’t a better player than CJ. If he shows that he needs to start then you have to start him. If I remember correctly there have been a few effort issues with him, and you want to make sure he doesn’t feel entitled because he was a high draft pick.

by davidthecomposer on Dec 2, 2011 7:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Whoever the Jazz sign as a backup point guard this year, they need to make it very short term.

Next year there will be two ideal backup point guards on the market—Andre Miller and Chauncey Billips. Even though both players are getting long in the tooth, they both really know how to run a team, play decent defense, can score (Miller through penetration and Billips with his “bigshot”), and will probably be good for 15-20 minutes a game for 3-4 more years. In addition, if Harris had an injury, either of these players could fill in extremely competently in the short term, without the team really missing a beat. I could see either one of those players making the Jazz about 50% better as a backup.

by Fesenko for President on Dec 2, 2011 11:34 AM MST reply actions  


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