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The Year Of The Doe? - The Downbeat - #634

The record seems to skip every year as we start talking about CJ Miles. Could this finally be the year where production equals potential? While his work ethic and determination has never been in question, his on court performance has. He's capable of putting up forty points and carrying the team. But we've also see 1-10 performances. Consistency is what Jazz fans have been yearning for the past five seasons.

For 2011, offensive numbers -- particularly shooting percentages-- were down. However, he posted career high in PER of 14.4 primarily because his rebounding numbers were up as well as his free-throw shooting attempts and makes. With PER, 15 is considered an average player.

The biggest question with CJ, and with Jazz fans, is what would be considered a successful season? 45% shooting? 40% from the arc? He came close to those number in the 2008 season when he shot 48% from the field while shooting 39% on threes. I think that the following season is when most people started feeling a bit let down despite CJ putting up solid numbers again.

So now we enter CJ's free-agent year when he'll become an unrestricted free agent. Will the team benefit from a free-agent bump? If so, does it price CJ out of Utah? The summer of 2012 will feature teams with lots of cash to spend. So just when fans may become satisfied with CJ's play, they may see him take those talents elsewhere next season.

So what in your mind, constitutes a successful season for CJ Miles?

The Associated Press has a great feature on Tyrone Corbin. One of the quotes was Sloan-esque

"You've got to be ready coming out of it because no one's going to feel sorry for you so you can't feel sorry for yourself," he said.

As I wrote earlier, Coach Corbin is one of the things I'm most looking forward to for this season. He has the respect of the players and other coaches. He's got a three-year deal which should set his mind at ease a bit yet he won't become complacent. This is his big shot after waiting patiently for years after getting turned down for other head coach opportunities. I'm expecting big (relative) things.

Oh, really?

One league official says there are seven NBA teams that have two stretches of 5 games in 6 nights this season. Good luck with that. 8 hours ago via web · powered by @socialditto


Not one, but two stretches. With a hugely compressed season and the complexity of not only scheduling the season but dealing with other arena events, this shouldn't be too surprising. That won't make it an easier for those teams of course. What will those last two games be like though?

Free agency and training camp won't officially open until this Friday, team executives and coaches can begin speaking with players starting today. There are a couple of caveats though. From ESPN,

Sources say the league, though, is still telling teams the restrictions in place since Wednesday -- which stipulate that no oral or written agreements can be struck with free agents -- remain in place because the lockout is still technically in effect.

Sources say coaches likewise can't supervise on-court workouts before camp begins Friday but teams are allowed to give physical exams to free agents.

The lockout is set to be officially lifted on Wednesday once the finer points of the CBA have been hammered out and the players and owners vote on. Once that's done, teams would be able to make official offers though they wouldn't be official until Friday.

Can you imagine if the league had locked out its players either a year earlier or a year later? We would have been spared The Decision first of all. This free-agent frenzy is going to crazy enough and they're really aren't any marquee names. Imagine having just this week essentially to try and speak with Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, or Deron Williams if the league locked out its players after the last year of the previous CBA instead of this one. What if Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, and LeBron James had been drafted a year later and 2011 was their year of free-agency instead of 2010? The Internet may have exploded.

Monday poll... Ronnie Price has expressed his desire to stay with the team. Should be be back?

Poll
Do you want Ronnie Price back with the Jazz? (leave your explanation in the comments)
Yes
285 votes
No
117 votes

402 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 47 comments  |  Add comment  |  0 recs  | 

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Great stuff, as always!

1. That’s my biggest fear, is that he will just kill it this year and then price himself out of Utah. Perhaps, if he is killing it and we are a middle of the road team, the ownership will move him. You obviously can’t do that too much and expect win long term……but you have to think its an option.

2. I like Ty. He did a decent job last year when a difficult hand was dealt to him. I look for him to improve with the team this year. Glad to have him.

3. At first glance, its easy to say “All right! That’s a fans dream!” But you hit the nail on the head with your last point. The quality of play on the back end of those is going to be awful. And I mean awful.

4. The scenario you have created might cause twitter to short circuit and we might see the return of Kirstie Alley on twitter (you have to listen to jim rome to get that joke).

5. Yes. Ronnie is a low-risk player who knows his role, knows our system, and won’t whine about playing time. He is a laker-killer and a solid athlete who can get out and play some D. Not a bad guy out on the wing.

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 5, 2011 8:44 AM MST reply actions  

I love ronnie price

I think he has a lot of value off the court. As a locker room guy, a chemistry guy.

by Evans Almighty on Dec 5, 2011 8:45 AM MST reply actions  

I like Ronnie

I think he’s the best spark off the bench that we have.

Besides, my grandma thinks he’s hot, and I hate to have a sad grandma.

"Everyone wants to throw dirty on us"

by dunkface on Dec 5, 2011 9:17 AM MST reply actions  

more than this coming contract,

the jazz matching on miles the last time around was the most surprising. thought that he was overpaid on that contract.

interesting thing about miles is he seems to have become a better defender over time. shot selection will always be his bugaboo.

corbin stepped into awful situation last year, and one can’t help but wish him the best. though dwill is an incredible talent, his personality on a corbin team might have caused problems. though not a harris fan, in particular, he has a real chance to improve his standing as a point guard this season. new jersey expected him to be more of a scorer than his skillset allowed. would like to see him get his defensive mojo back.

by utahcoyote on Dec 5, 2011 9:22 AM MST reply actions  

#1

at this point CJ will have to show that he is a better long-term option than either Hayward or Burks. If he has the same type of season he did last season (which was actually really solid other than his shooting percentages) then he will be let go for sure. I think there are two ways that he stays:

1. Starter option – He really blossomes (something like 15-20 ppg with a good % and is at least the same defensively)

2. Backup option – He doesn’t really get enough minutes to get the above stats, but his role becomes more of a bench spark. He still shoots a high percentage. The main reason I could see this happening is because Burks, Hayward or especially both really flourish and demand those starting spots. Possibly if AK returns as well we could see this play out.

He will leave if he does not progress as stated above, or if all three wings are fairly equal (equal in a good way – like they are all doing very well) they may look to trade CJ at some point during the season depending on record.

My rela hope as a big CJ fan, is that he will finally get a consistent starting role for at least the first half of the season. I just want to see one time what he can do for an extended stretch where his minutes are a steady 30-35 per game. I can live with whatever happens as a result.

by davidthecomposer on Dec 5, 2011 9:38 AM MST reply actions  

wow - blossoms has no e. that is a typo.

are we ever going to fix it so we can edit little things like that out of our posts?

by davidthecomposer on Dec 5, 2011 9:39 AM MST up reply actions  

only losers will

criticize someone for a spelling error. we got your point david, no worries at all.

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 5, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Part of reading comments is deciphering that rela means real. The downbeats are fun to read, but the opinions people have make the DB whole. Even if they have typos.

by Toasteroven on Dec 5, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Are you calling me a loser?

:)

I get paid to criticize spelling errors.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Dec 5, 2011 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Why Ronnie Price

a) loyalty, the Jazz need to show some to the players after what they’ve done. Price has previous doing the rural jazz route in the summer. he was also the Jazz player rep during the lockout, despite being an unrestricted free agent. the last time we had an unrestricted free agent who did stuff for the jazz, the jazz dropped him for ‘character issues’ (Dee Brown). Price has none of that as he’s married, and went to school in state.

b) he plays hard on every play. he knows he’s not going to play 20 mins in a game, so he doesn’t dog it. as a part of the swarm lineup last year his defense was a great change up to whatever our starters were doing

c) has limitations, but are aware of them and does not play out of his game. he’s a guy who can run on the transition and make the best of his opportunities. he’s not going to disrupt the team in order to ‘prove’ he can do more.

d) has gone on the record to say he ‘hates the lakers’

e) also seems to hate Derek Fisher

f) amazing highlights (like that block on LA Lakers Walton)

g) knows the system and is a soldier. will do his job and not whine about minutes

h) sometimes kinda looks like a happy goat

i) chemistry guy

j) played under Sloan and knows Sloan’s doctrine

k) a member of a number of Jazz playoff teams and has seen what it takes to get there

l) usually starts the season as the 3rd string PG but ends it as the #2 PG (though it did not have it last year)

m) can also play SG

n) super fast, and has occasional three pt range

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Dec 5, 2011 9:54 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

"price has previous doing"

i need to stop having my posts ghost written by Borat

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Dec 5, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Agree wholeheartedly.

Only thing I would add is he has a cool beard.

by SurlyMae on Dec 5, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

Ronnie

Since none of the other naysayers have spoken up, I guess I’ll say why I think the Jazz should let him walk. The biggest thing with me is Price’s lack of upside. He’s a swell guy, a loyal and longtime Jazz player, and a known commodity… but those are not the sort of things that one should value most highly when one is rebuilding.
I’d rather see the team take a chance on someone who is potentially worse than Ronnie (but also potentially better) in the hopes that this other player suddenly blossoms into a significant contributor. Since the Jazz aren’t going to contend this year anyway, I say they should roll the dice and see if they can find a diamond in the rough.
At this point, Ronnie Price is simply not going to take either his game or his team to the next level. Let’s bring in some fresh blood and see what happens.

by El Aguacil on Dec 5, 2011 10:09 AM MST reply actions  

options

Would you then want a person that is a free agent (already in the NBA) or someone who was undrafted like how OMSW came in?

by Toasteroven on Dec 5, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Kyle Weaver

depending on who you ask, he’s either a PG or a SG or a SG/PG or a PG/SG — though his best game with the Jazz came with him playing a lot of SF.

he’s an option and he has more upside for sure. it is a zero-sum game with ronnie p and kyle w? or can the jazz have both on the roster. it’s not like they would be breaking the bank to keep both for a full season.

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Dec 5, 2011 10:20 AM MST up reply actions  

OMSW, sign me up!

I’d rather go for a complete unknown, like Matthews was. In particular, I’d like to take a chance on someone who has one elite skill (shooting, speed, rebounding, whatever) and see if he could turn into an actual NBA point guard. A fresh upstart is more likely to blossom unexpectedly than a veteran free agent, so bring in the kids!

by El Aguacil on Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

I really like Price,

but I really struggle to see what role he could play with the team in the long term. In the past he was good to have around as an emergency 3rd string point guard. He was also a high character guy that is great for the locker room. His biggest asset was how hard he played when he came off the bench.

I don’t see a need for him anymore. Harris, Watson, and Burks should be sufficient to fill our PG needs. With Hayward, Burks, CJ and Bell all looking for time at SG. I just don’t see how he will get any minutes. They could sign him just in case of injuries, maybe he gets resigned if they can find a way to move Bell. Price is a great guy but I just don’t see any on-court reason to resign him.

by Daniel Smith on Dec 5, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

I hope CJ can be a part of the team long term

I’d love to have a solid rotation of burks cj and hayward going forward.

A. He has so much experience for his age, he knows the system (although the system could possibly change some, he’ll still be more familiar with it than others) He’s young enough to get much better and also to grow but yet help mentor some of our youngs.
B. Although his shooting percentages have gone down in recent years, he’s become a much better defender, slasher, free throw shooter and rebounder.
C. He’s got the work ethic and the drive to get better, which I think he will.
D. He talked to me on myspace once. That was pretty cool.

Louisiana Jazz fan

by TBKIII on Dec 5, 2011 11:47 AM MST reply actions  

Couple thoughts on CJ and Ronnie....

CJ – I think his percentages went down last year because he felt like he had to be the one putting up shots when the 2nd unit was playing. I think if he plays with the starters, or at least stops thinking he needs to put up so many shots because we have problems on offense……….then better shot selection should lead to better percentages and more consistency. I think/hope he’ll improve a bit this year.

Ronnie – I like the guy’s hustle, but I don’t think we really need him. If we don’t sign Watson, OR if we think we need some insurance for when Harris gets hurt, then sign him up. He’ll be cheap enough that I would not be surprised to see him back. No real upside though, and I’d rather see Burks or Haward get more chances to initiate the offense.

by Big_B on Dec 5, 2011 12:13 PM MST reply actions  

When the lockout was first lifted

And someone was tweating about the practice facility and how Ronnie was there, my first thought was why is Ronnie Brewer there? That’s weird. So, yeah, Ronnie Price is an afterthought. However, he seems genuinely nice. He knows the system. He will be cheap and flexible on contract length. And we need point guards. Let’s resign Ronnie. Price.

by tyrantking on Dec 5, 2011 1:19 PM MST reply actions  

Random note

…but Deron Williams was quoted by ESPN today as saying he’s about 90% certain he’ll re-sign with the Nets after he opts out of his contract. Why couldn’t we have gotten that kind of assurance?

by flibbidy on Dec 5, 2011 1:24 PM MST reply actions  

Which is probably true

but it would have been nice to know one way or another. I remember David Locke saying the feeling around the organization was that he would not be back. The Jazz made a power move by trading him when his value was still high. It put us into a true rebuilding mode, but at least gave us some good pieces to start with. Not sure we would have gotten that kind of package if we had waited.

by flibbidy on Dec 5, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Not exactly.

“My plan is to stay with the Nets.”

Then he put the odds of him staying at 90%.

"In the perfect world, we’d get the players we need for me stay here," Williams said. "I’m excited about the opportunity to play in the new arena. Brooklyn, I just think it’d be a great place to play. That’s what I’m hoping for. That would be the best case scenario.

And if the Nets can somehow pull off a trade with the Magic — perhaps with the reported deal on the table including Brook Lopez, draft picks and cap space — the Nets point guard is not only certain Howard would sign an extension to play in Brooklyn, it would be enough to keep him around, too.

“That would be enough to convince me," said Williams

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Dec 5, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Wouldn't Orlando want more than Lopez and picks?

First of all the picks wouldn’t be that high, because with Howard and Williams in the Eastern Conference they should be at the very least fighting for a top 4 spot in the conference, so the NJ pick would be in the 20s. I think NJ also has Houston’s first round pick, but that should be mid teens at best, and maybe not even a lottery pick if the Nuggets and Hornets come apart as it is looking like they will. Second, the main player that Orlando would get back is Lopez. Lopez is an Al Jefferson that doesn’t rebound. If I am Orlando I can do better. Unless NJ can really sweaten the deal, I don’t see how the Nets get him. The Nets would have to be willing to take back either Hedo or Arenas ( with Orlando using amnesty on the other) to make this deal happen. Regardless I don’t see how that is better than what the Lakers or Clippers could offer to Orlando.

At the end of the day I would be shocked if Dwight ends up in NJ. And unless they add somebody good to help Deron, I doubt he stays there either.

by BobbyD31 on Dec 5, 2011 3:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed. The Nets are long shot. But more likely than you'd think.

For one, the Magic might prefer to have cap space over a player. The Nets have already agreed to take back Hedo Turkoglu’s contract. That is a done deal. The Magic could trade New Jersey Dwight and Hedo and take back 2 years and $8 million that Lopez has on his deal, so even if he doesn’t pan out, the Nets have $25 million in capspace to take back all of Orlando’s bad contracts. Plus the picks the Nets would send to Orlando would be much better than any picks the Lakers could trade.

I don’t think the Lakers are that likely. Would you want to trade for Andrew Bynum and his $16 million this year and team option for $17 million next year? He is promising, but how would Bynum look switching places with Dwight. Also, can LA take Hedo’s contract? Not as easily. I think the Lakers are a longshot.

The Clippers also have great pieces and can easily make the best offer, but rumors already exist that Sterling isn’t convinced to pay that much money to Dwight when he can pay Griffin and Jordan peanuts for the next 2-3 seasons. No way LA can or would take on the crappy Turkoglu contracts. Or would Orlando demand Blake Griffin? And really whatever team Dwight handpicks, will have the upper hand since he has to agree to sign an extension. If Dwight wants to play with Deron and makes that known to Orlando, New Jersey probably becomes more eager to make the trade.

I think LAC are the best option, but NJ isn’t far behind.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Dec 5, 2011 3:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I read that the Lakers could include Gasol and take back Hedo.

So If I can get Bynum and Gasol, plus 2 first rounders and get rid of Hedo, I think that is better than Lopez, cap space and 2 slightly better first round picks.

Of course I pray that this won’t happen.

by BobbyD31 on Dec 5, 2011 4:24 PM MST up reply actions  

I think that is exactly the deal that will go down

Dwight Howard will be a Laker. Which ticks me off. LA has forever been built off ill gotten stars- Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Pau. Quite probably Dwight or Pauyl too. I really hate it.

by Stockton2Malone on Dec 5, 2011 4:28 PM MST up reply actions  

The only good thing if that is the deal that gets them Dwight, I don't

think they have enough left to get CP3. The only assets they would have left would be Lamar and Kobe, and they ain’t trading Kobe and Lamar isn’t enough to get a deal done.

by BobbyD31 on Dec 5, 2011 4:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd like to agree

But it’s the Lakers. They do what they want. If the get Paul and Dwight I won’t be at all suprised? Assets? Who needs them when you’re the Los Angeles Lakers?

by Stockton2Malone on Dec 5, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Dwight also hates cold weather

I know that sounds silly, but he seems adamant about it enough that NJ could be off the block. Mark my words: Dwight will be a Laker. In my mind, it’s pretty close to a done deal. Don’t be surprised when they get Dwight AND Chris Paul. It’s the Lakers we’re talking about here.

If I’m the Nets I do my best to sign Caron Butler and Nene. A starting 5 of DWill, Morrow, Butler, Nene and Lopez, with Kris Humphries off the bench is good for the 4rth or 5th seed in the East.

by Stockton2Malone on Dec 5, 2011 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

My prediction for CJ:

Same as last year.

Love him, though.

by chamont on Dec 5, 2011 2:18 PM MST reply actions  

you mean 'doe'

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Dec 5, 2011 2:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Can anyone name a single player...

…who was full of potential, but inconsistent most of their career. And then one season, figured it out?

I can’t. CJ will be CJ.

by helix400 on Dec 5, 2011 3:34 PM MST reply actions  

Zach Randolph. Poster child.

The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.

by clarkpojo on Dec 5, 2011 3:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Billups came to my mind right off the bat.

But I think the big thing with CJ is, that for all his potential he will probably never be even a fringe all-star. A key role player on a championship team is all I want out of him, and for that he needs to be more consistent. There are plenty of players in the league that started their careers with question marks about their consistency but then figured it out to where they helped teams by being major contributors, just not necessarily stars.

by hamfist on Dec 5, 2011 3:53 PM MST up reply actions  

figured out what?

That he needs to get consistent minutes to be a consistent performer?

I challenge anyone to be consistent when your minutes are something like 15-33-16-12-35-25-14—9-43

The thing that isn’t consistent with CJ is the way the coaches treat his playing time.

Oh, and his shooting has been very streaky. It isn’t about him “getting it” it is about him making shots.

by davidthecomposer on Dec 5, 2011 3:55 PM MST up reply actions  

I think his making shots has had a lot to do with what he's been asked to do.....

Coming off the bench, I think he felt like he was expected to be an offensive force. ( so then he jacked up all kinds of shots ) When he played with the starters I think he was holding back for better opportunities.

I’d like to see him play with a consistent roll. Don’t force anything.

by Big_B on Dec 5, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I agree

He played better as a starter, and the team played better when he was in there as a starter.

by davidthecomposer on Dec 5, 2011 4:03 PM MST up reply actions  

It is hard to play a guy consistent that is so streaky shooting though.

Look at his shooting percentages game to game:
.0
.25
.615
.583
.308
.077
.357
.500
.385
.308
.500
.143
.455

How do you give him more and more mins, when he shoots that streaky and isn’t that good at defending 2s and fouls at lot trying so he can’t get consistant PT there. So you have to play him at 3, and AK has always been better on both sides of the ball. Maybe this year CJ will become consistant enough to stay on the floor. But I don’t think you can criticize coaches for not giving him consistant minutes. CJ needs to step up and take the minutes by shooting better and defending better. He has the talent to do it.

by BobbyD31 on Dec 5, 2011 4:44 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Rasheed when he was motivated and on the Pistons is another example.

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Dec 5, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I will be satisfied if CJ shoots over 50%

I wish I knew why the kid can’t pull it all together. He has so much talent. Why can’t he consistently light it up like he did when he dropped 40+?

by Stockton2Malone on Dec 5, 2011 4:29 PM MST reply actions  

CJ has such a pretty release

It would be shame to see that go to waste

by Evans Almighty on Dec 5, 2011 5:19 PM MST up reply actions  


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