A leopard can't change its spots, but can it learn to climb a different tree? - The Downbeat - #511
After the draft, the #2 hot topic on SLC Dunk lately is whether the Jazz should jettison the team and rebuild with youth, with Big Al being at the "center" of the discussions.
Defense- and offensive efficiency-wise, Al has room to grow. I'd like to take the discussion in a different direction, so let's leave this aside for the moment and instead ask these questions:
1) Is it within the realm of possibility that he can improve? If so;
2) If the Jazz, cognizant of which areas his game needs improvement, leave him at locker room cleanout with "work hard," "watch film," and "we'll check in on you when we can" and send him back to the same people/coaches that he's always worked with throughout his career that shaped him into the player he is today, should the Jazz bear some responsibility for his development or lack of if they don't get a guy who knows the system and what a big should be doing in that system (Karl or whoever the case may be) to work with Al and show him and teach him how to improve and be successful in the system?
It's like, some people are naturally great dancers. Some take classes and become great dancers. Regardless of which you are, I guarantee that the person that goes and takes classes with a real live instructor will reach higher heights than the person that tries to learn steps at home by himself from instructional DVDs.
Some guys naturally understand where they need to be and how to get there, and can make themselves great. Some guys need step-by-step instruction. It doesn't make them less of a player if they need instruction, or mean that they can't be as good as the first guy. Assuming that Ty won't be completely changing the system, the Jazz have the option of getting Karl--a guy who knows how to work and propelled the system to new heights--to work with Al. And we know Al would be up for it. When Karl attended a practice this past February, the one guy he singled out for being coachable and taking his advice was Al.
We all have our opinions on which direction the Jazz should go in, but I just don't see the Front Office blowing things up now for a better future down the road. Which means Al is staying with us. Which means his development is, at this point in time, more crucial than Derrick Favors' (future though Favors may be). In conclusion, the Front Office should be quoting TMac and saying, "It's on me."
To continue with this line of thought: We don't have the best history developing bigs. The Jazz annals are littered with bigs that never lived up to their potential or broke down before they got anywhere. While part of this is that the Jazz have rarely had high picks, I just don't have much confidence in the Jazz's ability to develop bigs.
A better game plan, IMO, would be acquiring established and/or role-filling bigs whose abilities and limitations are already clear, meaning you already know what you're going to get from them and are not working on the basis of potential, through trades and free agency than trying to draft and develop them. We've gotten nowhere with the latter route, and if we have to go back to Mark Eaton to find a success story, then I'm sticking with "we've gotten nowhere with the latter route.") Thoughts?
Working out for the Jazz today: Paul Carter, Jimmer Fredette, Josh Harrellson, Senario Hillman, Malcolm Lee and Kemba Walker.
Speaking of Jimmer (smooth segue, right?): According to Chris Mannix (mp3), Jimmer sees himself as a Deron Williams-Steve Nash hybrid.
Mannix also said that Jimmer has been strategically planning his workouts--Sacramento, Phoenix, Indiana, New York--with teams that he either wants to play for or whose system (up-tempo, PNR-heavy) fits his game. For this reason, Mannix believes that Jimmer will be available at #12, as teams that he refused to work out for won't be drafting him without having seen him.
Also, "[Jimmer] told me Utah is his number one choice. He wants to play for the Jazz. He wants to move 45 minutes down the road on the I-15. He wants that pressure and that responsibility of being a star in Utah."
What do you get when you combine a slow news day with crazed fanaddicts? This.
Help me out: favorite iPad/tablet apps? [Effort to make this relevant to this post and site] Best Jazz/NBA apps?
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A D-Will/Nash hybrid
if that is even close to being true, how is this guy NOT going to be a superstar?
also if it’s true that he wants to be here in Utah, well, I hope we get him.
Jimmer is
such a panderer. The D-Will/Nash statement proves it all by itself. I have no choice but to now use my 10-yr-old’s current fave expression: GAG ME.
I'm sorry - Did you actually just suggest that there are teams I care about besides the Jazz?
You just seem to only find the negative in Jimmer. I get that you don’t want him, but stop trying to find fault in everything about him. He is referring to play style. I can say my style is more similar to D-will than to Derrick Rose, but that doesn’t mean I am implying I am as good as either of them.
Follow me on twitter @JD23UT
Not trying to find fault.
The first time I see/hear anything from Jimmer that impresses me, I’ll be the first to admit it. There’s nothing I love more than having a perception of mine proved incorrect. And if he comes to play for the Jazz, I will cheer for him as loudly as I do for the others, regardless of if I want him or not.
I'm sorry - Did you actually just suggest that there are teams I care about besides the Jazz?
Did you miss his Kings workout video?
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
You are an inciter.
Yeah I said it. D-Will – Not the most Athleticially Gifted PG. Not the Quickest – Great Crossover
Jimmer – Check
Steve Nash – Crafty Offensive player, great shooter
Jimmer – Check
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
It's not inciting,
it’s called expressing an opinion. Evidently I’m the only one not allowed to do that here – point taken. I shall disappear.
I'm sorry - Did you actually just suggest that there are teams I care about besides the Jazz?
I find it hard to swallow that Fredette will be on the same level as DWill/Nash
Maybe style wise, but not quality. I think Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford is more the ceiling for Fredette.
I will say, he’s done a genius job in how he’s gone about the draft process and marketing himself.
I can see some aspects of their game in Jimmer
Jimmer has the D Will crossover, and has the ability to keep his dribble going while he sets his man up like Nash does.
Its a copycat league im sure other players take other guys game and try to implement it into their own
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 15, 2011 8:27 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Lol
No way I believe that. Dude hasn’t played a second of NBA basketball.
But like I said above he has some aspects of their game in his
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 15, 2011 8:37 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
This stuff is such a crapshoot
No one thought DWill or Nash would be HOF players either. I’ve tried to stay objective on this whole Jimmer issue, but, IMO, the proof is in the pudding. It seems like a lot of fans prefer to make arguments as to why Jimmer can’t be great as opposed to why he actually could. Like him or not, he is the reigning consensus player of the year, nabbing all six national awards. He absolutely dominated college basketball for the better part of a season in a way that hasen’t been done since maybe Pistol Pete. I have my doubts about him, but with every successful workout he has with the various NBA teams he has worked out with, comes a little more confidence on my end that this kid could be something special. And bias aside, objectively, his resume speaks for itself. Plus the fact that Utah is his “number 1 choice”? That has to resonate loudly in the ears of Jazz mgmnt.
by Theagreement on Jun 15, 2011 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions
I still don't think D Will is a HOF quality player
He might make it there eventually, but so far D Will is not on the same level to me as guys like Isiah, Stockton, Magic, Payton. Same with Chris Paul.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
I would agree with that
He is definitely on the bubble, but hasn’t done enough/doesn’t have enough tenure yet.
by Theagreement on Jun 15, 2011 8:58 AM MDT up reply actions
if the Jazz don't draft the Jimmer
I see him being one of those people who come into the ESA and light us up for 50+ points when they usually only score ten.
Its like keeping the troubled kid off the streets. Draft him just so the neighborhood is safe.
PS. Weird thought. What NBA team do most players have their career/season highs against?
by sincityjazz on Jun 15, 2011 7:48 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Good work Moni.
1. Al improved last year as the season went on, I don’t see why he can’t continue to get better. Big Al is coachable, McHale loved working with him and helped Al with his footwork, which is as good as any post guy in the league. So I think Malone should be brought in to help, Big Al, Millsap, and Favors.
I also think we need to have Big Al work down on the post, but run a lot of P&R with Favors. Get him on the move going to the hoop, and have Al crash the boards on those plays.
2. I think the Jazz should draft Kanter. If we have Malone helping our big guys, why not give Malone a crack a helping a young big guy develope.
3. If we go big at #3, I would be ok with bringing in the Jimmer at 12. He is a little high on himself, but I think that is what will put him on Bill Simmons Irrational confindence guy all stars.
#2
The Jazz never developed a big man because, as far back I can remember anyways, they never had a coach who played the post. Sloan was a guard, Phil Johnson wasn’t a post player, and every other assistant that comes to mind wasn’t a NBA center. Ty was a wing player as was Horny and Scotty didn’t play in the Assn.
Who did Orlando hire to teach Howard? Patrick Ewing. Who helped develop Andrew Bynum? Kareem did. Even Bill Russell constantly gives advice to Celtic bigs. You want to develop a big, bring in a coach who played the position.
by sincityjazz on Jun 15, 2011 7:58 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Patrick Ewing has been awful
in his role on the Magic. Dwight Howard did not develop ANY moves with Ewing’s help. Additionally, his defense remained the same (i.e. Attack any ball penetrator with reckless abandon, which will earn a lot of blocked shots and convince people he is a good defender while giving up a TON of unguarded layups).
Its debatable how much Kareem has helped Bynum. He has done more than Ewing, but that is not much.
Dwight Howard improved this year after working out with Hakeem. You can’t just go out and hire someone who was an all-star to coach these guys. They have to be able to coach!
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 8:35 AM MDT up reply actions
+1
That’s why I don’t know if Karl is the right guy either.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
by JazzHype on Jun 15, 2011 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you have anything to back this up?
to my eyes Dwight has improved drastically offensively since his early years. His teams don’t always get him the ball, but he has post moves now, and is an incredible defender. You are crazy if you think he isn’t a great defender. He is so dominant in every game he plays.
With Bynum, where is the proof of that? You have seen how he has helped? Bynum has developed into a good player (except for his injuries). If Kobe and Gasol weren’t on the team he would probably score 20 almost every night.
Howards numbers all went down this year. I’m willing to be open if you can back up your opinion with actual facts of any kind.
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Except when Dwight gets in foul trouble
Which usually comes from being out of control, i.e. undisciplined.
I know you weren’t responding to me anyway, but I won’t argue against you on the other points, because it’s pretty much impossible to know whether they’ve improved because of their natural learning curve or whether coaching helped accelerate it.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
let me respond piece by piece.......
“to my eyes Dwight has improved drastically offensively since his early years”
Very true. How much of that is coaching and how much is natural improvement (ie, experience)? Unknown.
“His teams don’t always get him the ball”
Seriously?
“but he has post moves now, and is an incredible defender. You are crazy if you think he isn’t a great defender. He is so dominant in every game he plays.”
I wouldn’t say “great”. He still gets by on his out-of-this-world athleticism. He still has trouble with defenders who can push him out of the paint. If he is pushed out of the paint, he throws bricks up at the rim. No touch. Brings the ball down too low. His moves are predictable and he has no counter move. He goes straight at the basket every time.
On defense, ill say it again. you have to watch him to pick this up. When a dribble penetrator drives the lane, he will leave his man EVERY SINGLE TIME and attack with reckless abandon. The pentrator may think they can get thier shot off. Dwight has incredible range and athleticism, so he blocks a lot of shots. That is a BIG plus. But, if the penetrator fakes and drops it off to Dwights man, boom, layup every single time. To be truly elite, you have to know when to attack and when to show and recover. Dwight attacks every single time.
Lets not even get started about his man on man defense or his pick and roll defense. They are abysmal for a man with his athleticism…….
If you think I am making this up, google “Charley Rosen, Dwight Howard, defense”. Charley is a guy who NBA players regularly call for tips on how to improve their game. He is widely considered one of the most observant basketball minds out there.
“With Bynum, where is the proof of that? You have seen how he has helped? Bynum has developed into a good player (except for his injuries). If Kobe and Gasol weren’t on the team he would probably score 20 almost every night.”
Agreed. But again, I said its debatable how mcuh Kareem has done versus how much Bynum has naturally grown and gained through experience. KAreem has helped, no doubt about it.
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions
hmmmm
i thought it would pop up. Ill dig a little deeper.
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions
here is a small sample....
he just skims the surface. Im having trouble finding his more in-depth report. When I read charley’s report, I started watching for it and sure enough, everything i put above is true.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/26/charley-rosen-nbas-most-over-underrated/
at any rate, the rest of this little column is a good read, if not one of his more in-depth pieces.
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Ok
I’m just wondering what you are basing your opinions on vis-a-vis Dwight Howard. You are basing it on one article by Rosen?
I know that Dwight Howard’s plus minus was one of the best in the game last year. I know that he completely dominates teams defensively when in the game.
This is a quote from Stats cube:
According to StatsCube, no team has been better than the Magic at defending the league’s top post players.
Now, if the second big is getting all these freebie layups, I highly doubt that the Magic would be the best (43.8% shooting percentage) team in the league defensively against bigs.
The fact is that Howard dominates defensively against post players… so one of Rosen’s main points seems rather opinion-based, and not fact-based.
I also didn’t say he had “great” post moves. I was talking about defense. I agree that he has good post moves, but not an elite offensive game. He is just such a freak physically (kind of like Shaq, though Shaq developed more skills later in his career)
I don’t mean to jump all over you. It just seemed unrealistic that your opinions came from any info. I’m still not understanding where you got your info on how those coaches helped develop the players.
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
my opinions come from watching the games....
you are arguing against things I agree with you on. Dwight changes the game defensively. He forces guys to stay out of the lane. He forces guys to take jumpers, thus lowering the field goal percentage. I got it. He intimidates better than anyone else currently in the league. However, if you watch the games (versus Lakers and Spurs particularly) his defense is highly vulnerable to dribble penetrators who are patient and look to drop the ball off. Those two teams (coached by the best minds in basketball) recognize this and attack it. Exhibit A: the 2009 finals. If NBA team ran a similar system at him, he would have to change. Since they don’t he is able to get by with other teams having an inflated sense of fear.
Your mistake comes when you rely too much on numbers without actually watching for things during the game.
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
You mistake inferring that I only use stats.
I HAVE NBA LEAGUE PASS!!! haha. But seriously, I do watch quite a few games.
Think about it, with all the scouting, and game-planning that exists in the NBA do you really think that teams wouldn’t use a certain game-plan if it was as high-profile, and effective as you are claiming?
Versus the Lakers they have these 3 7-footers that negate one 7-footer sometimes. They also have this guy named Kobe who was pretty good until he ran out of gas this year. Again, you haven’t given much proof of it other than some article you read.
I will say that stats help eliminate (I stress help) bias because obviously the two of us are seeing different things.
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
its not some article I read....
often times, I read what Rosen has to say and I look for it during the next game, and I don’t see it. Often times, I do. This is a rather frivolous debate, dont you think? We both agree that Howard is a defensive force. You keep saying he is dominant, my point is that he has weaknesses which can be exploited, weaknesses that are severe.
My point, from the very beginning, has been that great big men do not necessarily make great big man coaches. There are numerous respected NBA people who would agree that Ewing has done little for Howard. Thats all I am saying.
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah it is frivolous, and I need to get back to work.
Composing and arguing sports are not really all that congruent.
I’m sure Rosen is a smart guy. I have read a little bit from him, and have read him quoted in other articles before. I’m sure Dwight has holes, but teams haven’t found a way to exploit them very regularly obviously.
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
thats a great point to end on
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
oh boy, I just referred to Ewing as "great"
*punching myself in the face"
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
by the way...
statscube is flawed. Since there is a low number of teams, each team has a highly significant effect on the overall outcome. Dwight never has to go up against himself. Since he is by far the best center statistically in basketball, that is a BIG advantage when it comes to the Magic’s stats.
hmmmmmm, if given the choice between the opinions of a guy who NBA players and coaches regularly call for advice (including phil jackson) and “statscube”, ill take Rosen every time.
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Just because somebody coached doesn't mean they are always correct.
I think Dwight Howard’s accomplishments stand on their own. Ask NBA players who the best defensive player is, or who they least like to play against and I’m sure they would say Howard by a large margin.
And honestly I don’t even know how to respond to the first statement. So Are MJ’s stats unacceptable because he never had to face MJ? Come on man, that is a ridiculous argument. If anything that just proves how a raw talent like Howard has been developed (I am assuming by the great coaching he received from Patrick Ewing) to become a force on both ends of the floor.
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
“Ask NBA players who the best defensive player is, or who they least like to play against and I’m sure they would say Howard by a large margin.”
You knocked my argument for being too opinion based. This is pure speculation.
No, MJ’s stats are acceptable. What is unacceptable is conclusions like “The Magic are the best at stopping Low post scorers”. Its known that low post scorers are fewer and further between. The Magic happen to have the best one. There is a small sample size. Never having to face the top one goes a long way…..
How many stats classes have you taken in college?
Affectionately known on Over the Monster as "Pete"
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy
by BigBenSportsGuy on Jun 15, 2011 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
true. I figured you would attack that point.
So are you also inferring that your point was weak? I can accept that both our points were weak.
By the way, I checked the league leaders in scoring, and 18 out of the top 40 scorers were big men.That seems pretty good to me.
Anyway, I’ll let you respond or whatever if you wish. I’m not sure exactly what we are disagreeing on other than speculation and opinion, which probably won’t change at this point, right?
by davidthecomposer on Jun 15, 2011 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
#1/#2
Totally agree with the premis here. The Jazz NEED a big man coach. I think Karl isn’t the right direction because I don’t think he’s patient enough nor positive enough, but I haven’t seen him coaching, so that’s just a guess.
I like the idea behind #5 too, but aside from Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies, and an Android quasi-game called Alchemy, I don’t really have much experience. Hopefully others chime in.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
I need to get my eyes checked
at first I didn’t think that said premis. But I agree i don’t know that Karl would be the best coach but if he is willing why not try it for a few months or for the summer and see how it goes. I don’t think any of the players would become less skilled.
Well, to be fair, I did misspell it
Should be “premise”.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
Changing Leopards
1. AL got better all year and much better when Corbin changed the system for AL by moving him closer to the basket so he made faster moves or passed back out.. Peak Performance may be able to help his lateral quickness on defense. Part of that is also slow decision making on the rotations. My biggest problems with AL are fixable. He can pass back out to shooters (if they existed) instead of holding the ball. Forget the wheezy (gain shooting efficiency). Improve defense (changing the defensive scheme to funnel the baseline will help AL). I would give him one more year.
2. Most people jump on AL as the problem but when Boozer (.25-.3) and Okur ( .05) played together they developed about .3+ WP48 between them. Now AL and Millsap develop about .3+ WP48 between them. Millsap needs to improve his game. AL (.16) is a vast improvement over Okur as far a total game effectiveness. However, part of the problems with the bigs is with the guards who have poor perimeter defense and wings who can not shoot so the paint packs. Fix the guards and the bigs perform better.
A big man coach is a no brainer. I did not like Jason Collins as a player but I think he would make a great coach. He understands the flex very well and he has a lot of little nuance moves that are very helpful. He could not jump nor shoot but he knew how to work the system in spite of his limitations. He knew what to do he just could not do it as well as Malone. Personality wise he may be a good choice.
3. Jimmer still has a lot of risk. He can contribute immediately as a back up shooter. But as a PG he needs 2 years to develop. He will have to learn the flex and learn to run it at game speed. He will have to get a feel for the game and learn how to maximize it. His passing has to improve. He is about as fast/quick as DWill and he can shoot. Eventually he could be very good. He also could be another Price who never learned to run a team well. However, he shoots better than Price and has more experience running a team. So he is going to be someplace between a decent back up and a star.
The PHO exec said he could play half court defense. He fits Utah and Utah fits him. However, CHA may take him depending on who is on the board.
If he falls to 12 the Jazz should get him. Klay Thompson is a better Korver. Burks is a better Brewer. I like Singleton and maybe Brooks. Hamilton has been working out well and knows the system. They are the primary alternatives. Some mocks have the Jazz taking some very risky bigs the Jazz do not need and won’t use/develop. I do not consider them to be alternatives.
by BillZla on Jun 15, 2011 9:23 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
3.
Some great points u brought up about Jimmer.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 15, 2011 9:31 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Some new blood on SLC Dunk...welcome
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 15, 2011 9:33 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that Big Al got much better during the year
Additionally, the knocks on him about holding the ball too long are not entirely his fault. I noticed that whenever Al got the ball, everyone stood around on the perimeter marveling at his moves. Very rarely did anyone cut, but when they did, Al often found them.
Plus when he passed it out,
AK, Bell, Miles, Watson, Price, and until the end of the season, Hayward would just brick an open shot.
about karl coaching
let me just clarify that i’m not talking about bringing him in as an assistant or anything like that. i just want him to work with the bigs and kinda teach them the tricks of the trade.
karl said himself that it might not be a good fit, and that he wouldn’t mind trying things out on a trial basis just to see if the situation works. i don’t think the jazz should forgo this offer based on the reason “it might not work.” if it does, everyone benefits. if it doesn’t, it’s no skin off anyone’s back.
as for patience/positivity: he’s said he needed to be angry and feel disrespected when he played. the karl we’ve seen and heard in interviews in recent years is totally different. he’s upbeat and happy. it’s almost weird comparing karl now to karl then.
in all honesty, i don’t see the jazz establishing this type of relationship with karl. he says whatever he thinks, whenever he’s thinking it, regardless of whether it’s an unpopular opinion. it’s the direct opposite of everything kevin tight lips o’connor stands for. i’m pretty sure koc has woken up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat after having a nightmare about karl being on the jazz staff and conducting interviews.
Karl Malone Consulting Firm
I hope someone reaches out to him in the same position as Horny was a couple seasons ago when he came in as a shooting coach. I do not see him as a coach (not yet anyways) but he has a lot of knowledge of how to play the game, especially on defense.
That’s all Kareem is with the Lakers. Some players respond to the one on one attention. AJ got a lot better in Minny when Kevin McHale paid special attention to him.
by sincityjazz on Jun 15, 2011 12:26 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
koc
Often KOC wakes up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat dreaming about tall, clumsy White players such as Koufus, Curtis Borchardt, and the like. Kevin will then immediately sit down and compose poetry such as:
Ostrich man
take me on your wing
and fly us out of here ….
Kevin is one of those people who is rule-oriented and disciplined because he fears in his heart of hearts that if he abandons a single principle, he will totally go off the deep end and move to a nudist colony of tall White dudes.
Seriously, all the Jazz brass are a bunch of stiffs. Greg Miller is about an interesting to listen to as a rock. Kevin is boring. Bolerjack has spam between his ears—dude was meant for TV, not radio. He seriously knows very little about sports—he is just talking head. Booner sounds stoned all the time. DJ, PK, and Locke have good knowledge but they work for the Jazz so they always make everything sound the right decision, like Locke was really excited when the Jazz drafted Koufus even though any normal fan knew immediately the pick was a total disaster since Koufus was a huge, slow, clumsy White dude from the Big-10 who looked like a sloppy Okur without a jumpshot. But Locke was in the studio with his pants off praising the selection.
by scott smith on Jun 16, 2011 11:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm afraid the Jazz just don't have the pocketbook or the inclination to get a Big Man coach
which is a shame for Derrick Favors. I see a lot of ALonzo Mourning in him
Vote for Karl
I’d love to see Karl at least get a chance. He may not be the nest of teachers but I believe that his work ethic would rub off on Big Al and Favors. Karl would be a great work out partner. Show the kids would it takes to be great.
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+10! I really hope Karl will end up influencing our current players.
A big part of what made Karl great is all his conditioning and hard work. Even if he can’t coach technique that well, it would be a BIG win if we can get our bigs to start training like him year ’round. Evans could really use his strength workouts too…… it wouldnt hurt Haward either!
Question – Has anybody else been wondering if Karl’s techniques in today’s NBA would earn a lot of offensives ? (I’d say yes, but maybe not too many.) He often went strong to the hoop with both elbows out, which could do a lot of damage. (remember when the Admiral dropped?)
If Karl was in the NBA today
I think most players would be intimidated by him. True enforcer on the offensive end of the floor
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
He knocked a man out while rebounding
And it wasn’t even a foul!
Today’s finesse players would need a change of underwear after playing against Karl.
Yes, he would be suspended constantly
Today’s NBA is a kinder, gentler, offense-friendly NBA. Finesse, even?
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
IF thats true, then we are better off with Karl just being a conditioning coach.
If the offense of good big men needs to be more finesse, we’d be better off if we could also bring in Hakeem or somebody with great footwork.
Question#2 – How much are teams paying to bring in a good position coach anyway? Seems like it would be worth it to at least have somebody, even if they are not real high profile.
I'm not saying big men need to be finesse, by any means
But I am saying that they can’t be brutish like Karl, Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, etc, of yesteryear. Those days are gone for now. They’d have to tone it down or face NBA discipline and suspensions often.
The league is more of a finesse league now, though still nothing like Europe.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
And thank the hoop gods for that
yojimbo is jazzed
by jazzed on Jun 15, 2011 7:25 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
FWIW:
1. I agree the Jazz ought to help Al with a post coach; however, Al should take an interest in his own development and look into hiring someone to help him (Malone has said he’d work for free; I wonder if Al approached him if Malone would help him for free too? Remember Malone used to take guys under his wings – think Ike Austin).
3. Jimmer’s a beast. The guys smart too – I don’t think he’ll have any problem picking up the flex.
Very nice
1) Totally agree.
2) Totally agree.
3) Draft-wise, what do we really know? We booed John Stockton. I’ll trust KOC on this one regardless.
Great post Moni
Rec’d
yojimbo is jazzed
by jazzed on Jun 15, 2011 7:26 PM MDT via mobile reply actions

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