Since Clark Brought Back "Edition," Here's One More Edition - The Downbeat - #513
by moni on Jun 17, 2011 7:31 AM MDT
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Asked what went down during his workout with the Jazz, Brandon Knight said he worked out against the Jazz coaching staff on "pick and rolls, spot spots, finishing with my left hand, left hand speed dribbles, left hand jump shots, pretty much everything." Now, we know we're not going to get any substantial comments on the workout or Knight from the front office, but KOC did throw out this tidbit: "I tell you what. Jeff's slipped a little bit. His defense is, you know [shakes head] and Scott couldn't keep anybody in front of him."
Knight, for his part, dispelled rumors that he didn't want to be in Utah: "It seems like a great place ... it'd be a place that I would love to be there." (DesNews). He also told KFAN, "Utah seems like a great place to be, and I would love to be in this city." I don't know if he was referring to Utah or Salt Lake City as "this city," but referring to Utah as a city is a good omen in Jazzland (see Malone, Karl).
@shandonfan recently implored Netflix to make "West Wing" available online since her DVDs were getting scratched up. This sent me on a search for the most-scratched (and irreplaceble) DVD in my collection so that I could back it up. Those of you that don't also own the John Stockton Retirement DVD might have never seen this, so here is John Stockton's retirement speech:
There are now rumors that the Jazz are looking to deal Devin Harris and Paul Millsap, or at least are open to the possibility. Any statements like "The Jazz are interested in..." or "The Jazz are looking to..." are most likely either made up or someone repeating something someone else made up. No one in the Jazz organization--the tightest lips in the league--would leak stuff. Believe a Jazz rumor once, shame on you. Believe a Jazz rumor twice or again, shame on you some more... :)
For those that have their sights set further ahead to late summer, the European Basketball Championships (8/31 - 9/18) might be the only basketball we get for a while if the lockout happens. Andrei Kirilenko is planning to play for Russia; Francisco Elson is planning to play for (and captain) the Netherlands; Kyrylo Fesenko is planning to play 
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Rumor or not this is something that could happen. If they go big or pg with the 3rd pick someone is going to get moved. With the lockout and the new CBA up in the air the Jazz aren’t going to pay starter money for someone while the 3rd pick is their backup.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 17, 2011 7:55 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
I doubt they trade away a starter(Harris) and rely on a rookie before he even plays one game!
I expect we could see Millsap, AL, Harris, and definitely Memo get traded sometime this year.
As for draft night trades? I think Memo makes good trade bait, esp if somebody wants to give us a good player to move up a few spots.
We need a starting point guard, so I don’t think they’d trade Harris- YET. Maybe next year or at the deadline.
You dont need a PG with Starter money as a stop gap
They should resign Earl Watson. He would be cheaper than Harris, and when he was starting when Deron or Harris was out with injury he did a great job setting up his team mates. Have him start while the rook gets time to sit and learn before he takes over.
If they go big and take Kanter there isnt enough minutes to go around with 4 PF’s on the roster.
The only way they can avoid this is if Williams somehow falls to 3 or they draft Vesely there.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
The 3rd pick isn't exactly cheap
3.5 mil this year
3.8 mil next year
4.1 mil 3rd year
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
Compared to Harris's 9 mill?
depending on how the new CBA is going to look many teams are going to want to cut down on there cap space especially the Jazz with how much money they had invested in last years roster.
What ever the FO decides to do they will be investing 20 mill in these 2 lotto picks
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
No, just in general
And I was really replying to both you and Big_B.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
SO they pick a point guard so they can upgrade and end up starting Earl Watson?
That doesn’t make sense to me! The Jazz prefer to have a strong point guard.
IF they are that eager to save money, then the first go has got to be big Al. Memo is getting paid a bit more than Harris and is contributing ZERO. I am not sure how you get those off of the books without taking another contract on, but if all they are doing is trying to save money than they would likely start somewhere else.
Just look at the Deron situation as a rookie
If they do go PG and it’s Knight he will be backing up a guy that is getting paid starter money. Deron was backing up a guy that wasn’t even close to Devon"s talent. Why not do the same with Watson and Knight.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
Harris' value
Is that of a veteran who the rookie can learn from. Yes, Devin could get traded if a PG is drafted, but it’s also possible they hold onto him for awhile, despite his salary.
no way we trade Harris this year - no way
he’s been here half a season; is a top tier PG in this league; and drafting ANY of the PGs in this draft is not remotely a sure thing (including Irving) . . . no way he goes until maybe after next year or whatever ends up of next year after the lockout and if we do end up with a PG are able to get a better idea of what kind of PG he’ll actually be.
yojimbo is jazzed
How can he be a top tier PG
When his scoring is inefficient, his assists are declining, and he was the worst defender on the team?
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
What are you talking about?
He averaged a career high in assists last year. He didn’t shoot great, but his 3 percentage was coming up from what it had been, and he went from playing for a team that forced baseline to a team that forced middle. I think he can come around.
Sorry
Was looking at assists with the Jazz, not the season. My bad.
But for the rest:
His 3 percentage was still lower than his career best, in 2008. To me that indicates that we can expect his 3P% to fluctuate between 27 and 34 percent, not that it’s increasing. For 7 seasons it has always been in that range.
I don’t know why we keep making excuses.
We can keep hoping some of these guys come around, but the truth is most players don’t make huge, startling improvements at their age. Most of the big jumps happen in the first 3 years. After that, we’re looking at incremental improvements.
And incremental improvements are enough if we’re looking at a 55-win team with two guys headed to the Hall-of-Fame (early 90’s Jazz). They are even enough if you have one legit star (as in one of the 10 or so best players in the league) and are trying to build a team around him (the Deron years).
But they are not enough for the 5th worst team in the league to jump to 50+ wins, make the playoffs, and then steadily keep improving over the next 3 years. It just isn’t.
Players don’t jump from being an atrocious defender to being good. Players don’t shoot 49%, then 46%, then 43%, then 40%, then 42%, and then suddenly start shooting effectively again. Players don’t have a TS% of 55%, 53%, 55%, 53%, 53%, 52%, 53% and then suddenly become an efficient post scorer (bringing in Al here).
We can hope and make excuses from now until the end of time, but the truth is great teams aren’t built around players like this. And the odds of these players suddenly jumping to a next level, after 7 years of showing us their norms—the odds are very, very small.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Let's see
This years NBA Champs had a PG who shot 36% from the floor this season and has a career shooting % of 40% .
Their best player off of the bench shot 43% or less each of his first 5 years in the league.
Dallas turned the NBA finals around this year by inserting a guard into the starting lineup that has a career fg% of 43.5%.
But maybe Dallas is an exception. Lets look at the Lakers who won the last 2 titles. Fisher shot 42% in ‘09 a d 38% in 2010. He may have 5 rings but his career fg % is 4% lower than Harris’. But Kobe did light it up to 45% or 1% better than Harris.
So you are right how could Devin Harris with his career 44% shooting pecentage ever play on a championship level team. I mean we can’t find any evidence of a guard shooting that kind of percentage that played a big role into helping a championship team win the title. I guess from what you said above it is a good thing we traded Deron because he only shot 34.9% from the floor and 27% from 3 with the nets after the trade.
If you don’t like Harris and Al and Millsap and want to trade all of them for a future draft pick and a slice of pizza great. We get that you want to get all draft picks and rebuild. But don’t make up that champions aren’t made from players that shoot like that because that is what makes sense in your head.
Maybe you need to realize that championship teams can be made out of a lot of different types of players. Our vets and their Kobe like shooting pecentages included.
Yes, I went a bit overboard
But I said built around these players. Dallas was not built around Kidd. I don’t think the Lakers were built around Fisher.
And shooting percentages can be lower if the team plays great defense. Or if there’s just one lesser defender, playing a secondary role, that the rest have to cover.
And you were the one who suggested Harris will improve, not that his established level of play is good enough.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
They did it with Deron
And the difference between Deron and Keith McLeod is much bigger than, say, rookie Knight and Earl Watson.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Wow... my memory has faded. I guess they can do crazy things....
( the crazy one I remember is when they brought back Crotty with a bad knee! )
Still, I think it makes sense to get rid of Memo first. AK’s comes off the books too. I don’t we have to hurry to make trades. We have good assets, and the contracts are not long, so we should get plenty of offers before they expire. (no need to do it all next week)
Also…. if we do trade Harris, who/what would you expect to get anyway?
Lockout lessens the risk
Maybe in a normal year having a less-than-established PG would be risky, but with the lockout looming next season will probably be a throw-away anyway. This would be the perfect timing to deal a more established Harris and draft a younger version of the same. By the time Knight has to be the man, he will have had a partial season under his belt and will be more like a 2nd degree rookie (a la Blake Griffin)
by Juan B on Jun 17, 2011 12:46 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
that is...
Like Blake in terms of being familiar with the culture of the NBA, being a little more mature, etc. (not comparing their talent/athleticism, etc.)
by Juan B on Jun 17, 2011 12:50 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
"Crazy Things" like make a rookie earn his time?
T’Wolves fan. Believe me, more than once the various Minnesota attempts to develop a PG – Randy Foye, Jonny “Starts all but one game as a rookie, though he didn’t remotely deserve to” Flynn, and company – have been contrasted with the way Jerry Sloan brought Deron Williams along. It comes up routinely.
rumor
I heard a rumor that no matter who the Jazz draft, Locke, Boler, DJ, PK, and the other people on the Jazz payroll will spend the next 4 months telling us why it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. There are a lot of things that might happen but when you look at the past 25 years or so of Jazz history, there have really been only three decisions that really made much of a difference: drafting Stockton, Malone, and Deron. Doesn’t matter if they move Millsap or Al. Doesn’t matter if they move Miles or Harris. Doesn’t matter if they move Fez or Okur. All that matters is whether a guy like Favors is going to put himself on a HOF trajectory and carry this team to the promised land, and if not him, they need to find someone else of that calibe…
oh, sorry, excuse me, I just took a call from Kevin O’Connor, who told me that he just returned from a dinner-date with Koufus. Kevin is still convinced that Koufus can make an impact in this league and revealed that the reason he drafted Koufus was because it would be funny to put Okur and Koufus both in wigs and give them the same jersey number so that it would throw the defense off since they wouldn’t know which guy to guard. They apparently tried this a bit in training camp but it didn’t work because the defense wouldn’t guard either guy and neither guy could take advantage.
The Jazz are a great great franchise. Just ask someone who works for the Jazz and they will agree.
by scott smith on Jun 19, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I can never figure out how sarcastic you are being
25%?
50%?
100%?
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
If you like Season One Moni, just wait, Psych gets even better as it goes along
As for #1… I don’t know what to think of Brandon Knight. Part of me thinks he’ll be really special, another part of me thinks he’ll be a waste of the pick. What do I know though? KOC will make the right decision
It does get better after season one
I believe i was the first to recommend pysch haha…
by Evans Almighty on Jun 17, 2011 9:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Rumors about the 3rd pick
It is rumored that the Jazz will either trade the 3rd pick for other assets or keep the pick and use it to draft a rookie, who they will either then keep or trade away.
by flibbidy on Jun 17, 2011 8:25 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Another rumor
Is they trade the 3rd pick for Howard, and the 12th for CP3.
Sap and Harris to Cleveland for the 1st and 4th pick they then turn and trade those picks for LBJ. The fantastic four LBJ, Howard, Favors, CP3 and the inconsistent CJ will be our starting 5 next year….not one, not two, not three, not four…we getting rings!!!!!
MAKE IT HAPPEN KOC
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 17, 2011 8:40 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Who will be the closer?
Not James, not Dwight, not CP3, not CJ. Gotta be Favors! Maybe Hayward from the bench?
Come visit us at http://sportsutah.net
Follow me at @SportsUtahnet
Dude how could you forget Fess
You know the Kraken only comes out to close
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Jun 17, 2011 8:50 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
nice early edition
I’m making the excruciatingly long drive to Yellowstone, so I have nothing to do but surf the web for NBA and jazz news. Anyways, I hear McGee is available. Can we please do this? He would give us a very youthful potential filled core, and he’s definitely been playing like a starting C. So we trade the 3 for him, see if their interested in al Jeff for Nick young sign And trade, if not we still move al for a 2 or 3 scorer, such as k mart or iggy, or a not as good 2 or 3 and a good pick for next year. Then we draft jimmer. Our lineup is as follows: Harris, g time, CJ, favors, McGee. Off the bench jimmer, newly acquired 2, Evans, millsap fesenko. Maybe AK. Now of course if we got Kmart CJ would move to the bench. But look at that lineup. Our post d would be crazy good for the first time in so long. We would be freakishly athletic, especially if Evans continues to improve. We would stretch the d with nice shooting, and we work jimmer into the PG he can be ( deron Nash anybody??) We d have a playoff caliber team now, tons of youth in the core, players who may not bolt slc , that could possibly grow into a great
Louisiana Jazz fan
by TBKIII on Jun 17, 2011 8:43 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Chad Ford just reported via Twitter that the Wizards won't mover McGee to move up in the draft
I’m not sure the Wizards will really look to move up anyways, unless it’s to get Williams. It’s looking like Kanter may well fall to them.
For some reason, McGee can't run the floor
For being a super athletic center, he’s not in very good condition. I saw him huffing and puffing a lot last year.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
this may be true
But neither can Jefferson..
Louisiana Jazz fan
by TBKIII on Jun 17, 2011 10:20 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
But Jefferson's not a skinny, athletic transition kind of center
And I think McGee is. He’s definitely not that great in the half court and more valuable in open space.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
I would rather trade big al than millsap
801 for life
But the demand for Big Al likely isn't the same as for the moderately salaried Millsap.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
I would take less for Jefferson if it means keeping millsap and getting rid of Als contract
801 for life
Less like 2 or 3 overpaid scrubs who won't get any playing time?
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
Al's contract may be worth a lot more for trade bait when its close to expiring.
Also… if you don’t think Al’s contract is worth that kind of money, who would you take in trade?
Folks here seem to think he’s really overpaid, but if you look around the league, guys who can give you 20 and 10 are worth around 15mil even if they cant play good D. ( better than boozer’s contract eh?) He may not be a great match for the Jazz long term plan, but he’s not an asset that must be dumped immediately.
Im not saying we need to trade him immediately im just sayin i would rather keep millsap
and i say if the grizzlies lose Gasol then i think we should try to get either rudy gay or Mayo for al
801 for life
Rudy Gay is way overpaid.
He’s the newest AK.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
Whoa. Again, I'm a Wolves fan.
That’s the choice David Kahn made last year, for sure. Basically that was it.
jury still out on Al
Hard to know what to make of Al. He was injured much of the time prior to coming to Utah. It is conceivable that he still has significant room for improvement on both ends whereas it seems like the feeling is that Millsap is near his potential. I love Millsap and would prefer to have him than Al, but it seems like Paul is the one on the trading block.
by scott smith on Jun 18, 2011 12:24 AM MDT up reply actions
exactly
we forget that these guys are human, too, often in NBA, MLB, or NFL, you don’t see a player really show his true colors until a year or two after a fairly significant injury.
by scott smith on Jun 19, 2011 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Al that said? The Humble Rumble's defensive shortcomings are not a result of his injury status.
Al Jefferson stinks defensively. As did Zach Randolph, granted. But he’s a soft spot, no matter where you slide him.
1
Utah as a city = good omen: so true. Add Harpring to this list of those who refer to it as such.
As for #3 – The rumor I posted below in the ‘draft my wife’ edition demonstrates how much stock I put in things we hear concerning the Jazz. One more reason I worship our FO.
I'm sorry - Did you actually just suggest that there are teams I care about besides the Jazz?
the FO
When you say the FO do you mean the Front Office, as you in you worship the Jazz front office. Me, too, I worship how handsome Kevin is, and I imagine him walking around the front office wearing like a paisley bathrobe and he and Greg head out to the Turkish bath with Booner and Thurl and DJ and Locke and Boler and that tall pasty white dude who calls himself Pace Mannion and they just hang out in robes talking Jazz all day long and praising each other and praising how great the Jazz are and what a great organization this is. Booner tells Boler that Boler is the best play-by-play guy ever and Boler calls Booner “the shooter” which Booner loves. Locke then breaks down stats demonstrating that the Jazz are the best team of all time, except he cannot explain why they haven not actually won a title. PK pretends like he is Italian. DJ tries to engage Boler and Locke and PK in a discussion about anything other than Utes/Cougs or Jazz basketball but they can’t keep up. DJ asks Boler to name the 5 best NFL players of all time and Boler names Coy Detmer, Ty Detmer, Sikahema, Chad Lewis, and Thurgood Marshall. PK pretends to be Italian and does not answer the question. Locke obfuscates by talking non-stop about the Mariners and Ichiro’s batting average for the past ten seasons.
They eat a heavy lunch of enchilada and then roll back to the FO late in the afternoon and Kevin walks them through the draft board. Their first pick they want to make is Curtis Borchardt, a slow White dude from Stanford with a broken foot. Their second draft pick is a tall, clumsy, poor man’s Okur named Koufus out of Ohio State. Their third pick is a burly, slow, White power forward from the Big 10 named Kris Humphries. Kevin shows the group nude photos he keeps in his wallet of Mark Eaton and Kelly Tripucka, some of the original White dudes who played for the Jazz that Kevin would like to find in this draft. Greg tells Kevin that he thinks that Borchardt and Koufus and others were taken in earlier drafts, and they settle on drafting Kanter, since he is a tall White dude. They have decided they need even one more power forward or another undersized center.
by scott smith on Jun 18, 2011 12:33 AM MDT up reply actions
I think we need to take it seriously
for it to incite anything. After reading that I just want some enchiladas. =(
haha that is just my new word.
I guess technically I’m inciting by using it.
by davidthecomposer on Jun 18, 2011 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions
I enjoy the new catchword.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
I remember an exploratory documentary
with Nbc and Ksl on Karl Malone, with a Fugazi song used too, that was dope, wish i had that one on recording.
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