Utah Jazz 2011 NBA Draft Picks: Enes Kanter and Alec Burks
Jennifer Pottheiser/NBAE - Getty Images
By now you’ve heard the news, with the #3 and #12 picks the Utah Jazz drafted highly coveted bigman Enes Kanter from Kentucky née Turkey and dynamic scoring wing Alec Burks from the University of Colorado. Due to the vagrancies of the fickle and capricious Twitter God (like Lady Luck, but in 140 characters or less, or maybe the Tetris God is more apt) I was imprisoned in twitter jail twice last night. As a result I was not capable of registering my disapproval concerns immediately. There are a number of good things that I have to say about these cats too, and do, below.
#3 Pick in the 2011 Draft: Enes Kanter (6’11.25 tall, 259 lb, 7’1.5 wingspan, 9’1.5 standing reach)

I’m not high on Kanter. I’ve seen all the same footage everyone else has. I’ve read the same blogs. I’ve seen the same measurements. He’s not Moses Malone. He's not Bob Lanier. Nor does he make us ‘bigger’. (After all, he’s not bigger than Francisco Elson or Kyrylo Fesenko, both of whom he’ll be replacing – but I’m sure he’s way better than both at the same time). He is a very skilled player who has a lot to prove. I always thought of him as a Luis Scola type of player. Alas, the biggest problem with Kanter has nothing to do with his qualities or faults as a basketball player. The biggest problem with Kanter is something the state sponsored media is attempting to sweep under the rug: if we stand pat we just may not be able to give him the time on the floor he needs because we have too many bigs. Of course, more on this later.
He is a physical player, but isn’t that athletic. He’s also under 7’ tall and will have to be (by the virtue of the conference we play in) able to check guys from Dirk Nowitzki to Andrew Bynum. Both guys are taller, one stronger, the other quicker off the bounce. It’s not easy being a bigman in the West. But if you add it up a heavy, shorter guy who doesn’t have much in the standing reach department (Dwight Howard is an inch shorter but has a standing reach of two inches taller) means he’s going to be called for a lot of fouls. Sure, he’ll have the reputation of being the #3 pick in the draft – so he’s not going to immediately be called for those Fesenko fouls (we hope) – but he’ll still be called for a ton of fouls. If one of the stated desires was to draft defenders who weren’t foul magnets (which isn’t something I care for, obviously) then drafting Kanter is a mistake.
This guy can do a bunch of good on the basketball court though, if he ever gets there. He really hasn’t been playing much recently, if you didn’t notice. He’s a solid big that the guys on NBA TV (Rick Kamla, Steve Smith, David Aldridge, and via satellite Kevin McHale) likened to Jeff Ruland. He was a solid double double guy (career averages of 17.4 ppg and 10.2 rpg over 332 games), who did not have much finesse to his game but was quite adept at passing to cutters as a back to the basket big (from his second to fifth seasons he averaged 3.0, 3.9, 4.4, and 5.3 apg). If Kanter can be a Jeff Ruland type (without the injuries) that would be great. If he could be a Luis Scola type that would be great as well. Scola has career averages of 14.3 ppg and 8.0 rpg (277 games). Getting there is another problem.
Kanter is also reported to have a distinct and capable face-up game. During the Chicago Combine he managed to shoot 43/80 (53.8%), which 9th best out of the bigman group (total of 16 players). The other drafted bigs who shot better than him were Justin Harper, Trey Thompkins, JaJuan Johnson, Keith Benson, Jon Leuer, and Nikola Vucevic. Of course, a better place to read about all of this would be here. Back to business, Enes made only 5 for 12 (41.7%) of his timed 15 to 18 foot shots off the dribble. However, during the untimed portion he drilled 14 of 18 (77.8%). From the High School three point line (spot up jumpers) he made 10/25, and from the NCAA three point line (again, spot up jumpers) he made 14/25. Enes looks (from these numbers at least) to not quite be ready to drill the long bomb with any authority or regularity – but that’s completely fine. He’s not Andrea Bargnani. And we do not want him to be. If all you do is bang and hit the baseline midrange jumper like Udonis Haslem you can play in this league.
Clearly, Enes Kanter has some range. He’s not Mehmet Okur – but I’m sure if we keep Memo (and it will increasingly look like we will now that we drafted a Turkish big for him to mentor for at least a season) he will be forced to shoot more. Hopefully he can also learn Memo’s snowplow style three point upfake dribble move that results in the most gangly looking floater in the history of basketball. But I’m not going to hold my breath on that one.
Out of all the bad things and so-so things I think what we need to focus on just a little bit here is understanding just that this guy does well. As a heavier dude it behooves him to be physical on the court. At the draft combine he weighed the same as former North Carolina product Sean May. Dude is built solid, but he’s not excessively thick – like DeJuan Blair who was measured at 6’6.5 but weighs 18 pounds more than Kanter. Despite his density (you know …
) he was surprisingly quick on his feet. The only guys within the last little while to a) play in the NBA at his size, b) be a physical post player, and c)be faster in the lane agility drill were: Dwight Howard (by 0.09 seconds), Kevin Love (0.13 seconds), Blake Griffin (by 0.35 seconds), and Nene Hilario (by 0.37 seconds). At the very least this gives me hope that Kanter will actually know how to block out.
Why is this important? Well, last season (2010-2011) the Jazz were 8th worst in the league when it came to protecting the defensive glass (ranked 22 out of 30 teams). The Jazz gave up nearly 1000 offensive rebounds this last season. The season before last (2009-2010), opponents barely got over 800 offensive rebounds against us (and we were 7th best in the league). A big part of that is due to (essentially) losing Boozer and Memo (who combined for 14.1 defensive boards a game in 2009-2010). If you include Millsap into that equation the number swelled to 18.6 defensive rebounds per game by our top three bigs. As a point of comparison this last season (2010-2011) the top three rebounders on the Jazz (by rpg average: Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, and Derrick Favors) managed only 15.5 defensive rebounds a game. That’s a difference of +3.1 offensive rebounds a game that the other team got on our top bigs.
Sure, protecting the glass isn’t just the job of three people, it’s a team thing. But as a team, the Jazz players who got the most burn did not box out. There were some guys on the team who do routinely box out – but they weren’t major risks for playing time due to injuries, depth chart number crunches, and gypsy curses. IF Kanter gets playing time he can be a positive force out there who boxes out. Sure, he’s not super big where boxing out is more an unintended consequence of gravitational force (like my main man Kyrylo) . . . but for a guy Kanter’s size (which I’ll give him a 8 out of 10 on) and speed (a 9 out of 10 when it comes to lane agility), boxing out is something he has worked on, learned, and developed into a part of his game. And the effects will be noticeable on the court.
The flip side of knowing how to use your body and position to box out is that this dude probably knows how to actually post up / seal his man so he can get the ball. Sometimes last season it looked like no one on the team knew how to do this except Al Jefferson. Heck, even the legendary Ante Tomic doesn’t look like he knows how to do this, and he’s way more seasoned than Kanter. Kanter will know how to seal his man and post up. He appears to be a bit more adept at this than Derrick Favors right now; and perhaps he would more readily benefit from Karl Malone’s advice (Karl was a physical player who couldn’t jump just like Kanter is – Favors’ no step vertical jump is 5.5" greater and has a max reach over the 12’ threshold).
If Kanter can be developed (because you know we have a great track record with the bigs we draft . . . Goran Suton, Kosta Koufos, Kyrylo Fesenko (draft day trade), Robert Whaley, Curtis Borchardt (draft day trade), Jarron Collins, Greg Ostertag, Luther Wright, Isaac Austin, Eric Leckner . . . ) then, and only then, can any talk of his upside be turned into a real positive. With a) no dedicated Bigman coach, b) no real desire to play rookie bigs, c) no D-League team (even when we had one, we didn’t use it), and d) no playing time for him I worry about the actual returns we can get from a ‘high upside’ guy. But hey, I’m just being a hater, I guess. Maybe this time it’ll be different, right?
Well, with the #3 pick in the draft it better be. This is why that Goliath Key tweet from last night hurts so much. He said the playing time crunch only hurts if Kanter thrives. Did we plan on drafting a guy who wouldn’t thrive? What’s the development cycle look like – get a reasonable rotation player in the 2nd season of his first non-rookie contract? (Like C.J. Miles development schedule?)
Oh, by the way, the previous two paragraphs can and should be kept in mind in any discussion of Derrick Favors as well. The Jazz only seem to ‘get something’ out of a big guy they draft who is self-motivated and has a chip on his shoulder. Karl Malone wanted to be great because of his insecurities, and did so. Paul Millsap was a 2nd round pick who worked hard every day to get where he is. I have zero faith in our development staff when it comes to bigmen (the only other bigs we had that were All-Stars were free agent signings) – so I need to put my faith in that two #3 picks drafted in the entitlement era of NBA ball will have the personal, intrinsic, motivation to be great. (Andrei Kirilenko is a wingplayer, so he’s not in the discussion here)
The Big Question for Kanter
The big question, obviously, has to be about his development cycle. Even if he’s not going to be an All-Star we’re going to have to play him minutes in order to find that out. Right now there is a minutes crunch. He (and Favors) will both cannibalize each other’s potential playing time (and development hours with a non-existent Bigman coach) unless a move is made that frees up time and space. Truly, if the Jazz stand pat, they’ll have to break into the 4th and 5th dimensions to get anywhere close to the full value of the young guys they have.
The Big Question for The Jazz
We now have five guys under the age of 26 who play PF and C on the team (Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, free agent Kyrylo Fesenko, Derrick Favors, and Enes Kanter). None of these guys are finished products. Some of them have a little potential left to get over flaws. The majority of them are FILLED with untapped potential. Bigman coach. Nao. Seriously, I get Karl Malone that wants one more year to spend time with his son before he goes off to college – but is Mark Eaton’s restaurant really that big of a deal? He’s not the cook, right? Get him two track suits, stitch them together, and get him in the Zions Bank Center teaching these kids how to play defense without fouling.
#12 Pick in the 2011 Draft: Alec Burks (6’6.0 tall, 193 lb, 6’10.0 wingspan, 36.0" max vert)

I don’t know much about this guy besides the numbers. I did not look at his game film, and most of what I know comes from Denver Nuggets fans who were high on the kid. To be fair to both him and me this section is going to be shorter than the one for Enes Kanter (whom I spent hours upon hours researching). At the #12 pick there were a few names being bandied about – Jimmer Fredette, Chris Singleton, Klay Thompson, etc. We ended up with Alec Burks whom I honestly thought could have gone higher. Numerically, Burks is athletic, but not overly so.
He’s within one standard deviation below a group of 80 peers in: height, weight, wingspan, and bench press. He’s within one standard deviation above a group of 80 peers in: max vertical jump and max reach. He’s within two standard deviations above a group of 80 peers in ¾ court sprint, and lane agility.
So he’s smaller and faster than a number of wings out there. In his last season in college he played a little more than 30 minutes a game and got a 21/7/3/1 line. That’s really good. He projects to be a guy who can create his own shot, play a little point guard, and score at the NBA level. *Cough* Career NCAA GO Rating of 97.6 *Cough* However he’s not a very good ball handler, his perimeter defense is suspect, and I’m better than him at threes. And I’m an out of shape, taller Aziz Ansari, who blogs about sports more than he plays them.
Of course, I haven’t watched him play so take his qualities and any criticism of him with a grain of salt. He also seems kinda dumb, after all he didn’t know who Tyrone Corbin was despite having met him, and spending the entire day with him.
Statistically there is a lot to like. You love it when guards can make their free throws, and he shot 83% last year. He also got to the line 8 times a game. So those two factors together are a force multiplier. You really gotta love that. His game seems to be better fit for the SF spot in our offense though (the slashing wing, as opposed to the SG, or shooting wing). Previous (and current) slashing wings were David Benoit, Blue Edwards, Shandon Anderson, Andrei Kirlenko, DeShawn Stevenson and Ronnie Brewer. Previous Shooting Wings were Jeff Hornacek, Bryon Russell, and, uh, Kyle Korver. Funny how we seem to play better in years where we have both types – and we don’t have both types every year. C.J. Miles and Gordon Hayward appear to vacillate between the two roles (both being adept at making the long bomb and cutting to the basket for a dunk).
If Burks can turn his defense into a primary focus he can get playing time on any team – as he is athletic as all get out. His shooting from deep is kind of a concern though (especially as a shooting guard in a league where every team appears to have 5 guys who can kill us from deep). He shot 29% last season, and a hair over 30% for his college career. I’m less concerned with his ability to improve his shot (which is something you can do on your own in the gym, and don’t necessarily need a special shooting coach for – but we have one in Jeff Hornacek anyway) for a variety of reasons. The first is that there is ample evidence of guys who came into the league without a shot who HAVE developed it over time to the point where it is reliable. World Champion Jason Kidd and World Champion DeShawn Stevenson both come to mind. If he works at it he’ll get better at it. The second reason is that in his last year in college Gordon Hayward shot 29% from three point range as well. He finished his rookie season in the NBA with a 47% mark.
Better focus, better shot selection, the proximity to Jeff Hornacek, and time in the gym will get his shot to an NBA level – if he works for it. I think he will, he apparently has a chip on his shoulder (like 90% of this draft class). (Jimmer doesn’t need a chip on his shoulder because he used to play jail league ball in upper New York State prison systems.) His three may not be a weapon for him during his first NBA contract though, so that’s food for thought.
I think Alec can be a good player, and seems fit for our system to a certain point. I will say that it’s going to take a while for him to be NBA level on offense as a ‘shooting’ guard. If he was 2 inches taller he’d be a great pick, and a Top 5 one at that. He was one of the few lotto pick guards to show up to the combine and not participate in the shooting drills. So he (or his agent) is less confident in his shot than E’Twaun Moore’s people – and E’ only made 10 of his 25 three point attempts from NBA range. (Marcus Morris made 8, and he’s a SF/PF)
He has the potential to get way better and some of the physical tools that give me confidence in him. If I watched more of his stuff I’m sure I’d be able to confirm his scoring ability, and ability to develop something when a play breaks down. Hearing that he’s not a solid defender (from Jay Bilas) worries me. Dribble Penetration Defense is a huge deal. We suck at it. I wrote a few thousand words on the subject. If he’s not going to be able to prevent guards from getting into the lane then he shouldn’t be playing for us. And this goes for the rest of our wings as well.
The Big Question of Burks
The big question for me isn’t outside shooting – we should be okay with that next season with Gordon Hayward (47.3%, 0.5 threes made a game), Andrei Kirilenko (37.7%, 0.6 threes made a game), C.J. Miles (32.2%, 1.4 threes made a game), Raja Bell (35.2%, 1.0 threes made a game), Devin Harris (35.7%, 0.9 threes made a game), and Mehmet Okur (The Money Man) spreading the floor. As a result, the immediate need for Burks to take and make threes is relatively low (until we play the Lakers and go 4 on 5 on offense, right Ronnie B?). What I’m more interested in happens to be translating his athletic ability into strong defense. If we could just somehow use Raja Bell as a mentor for him to teach him the benefits of footwork, quick hands, and being an asshole – and how that makes you a good wing defender in the NBA – then I’d be on cloud nine. Andrei Kirilenko (if he returns) can be a mentor as well, as no one else on our team (not even Astronaut Jeremy Evans) knows how to time a jump better on the perimeter to disrupt a shot. Burks question is less of a question than Kanter’s, so there’s that – we may even have playing time for Burks without having to gut our team! Score!
The Big Question for The Jazz
Again, like the Kanter Question, this is less to do with him and more to do with the front office. Burks is talented and has some upside. He’s an athlete and should be able to score on the NBA level. He was a projected lotto pick and deservedly so. But why didn’t we trade down to get MarShon Brooks? Brooks was drafted late in the draft and traded for by the Nets (led by an aggressive owner) for the price of one 1st round pick and one 2nd round pick. His ‘market value’ was higher than a late lotto pick, so on market value alone he’s the better player. He’s also physically superior to Burks as well. Despite being 0.75" shorter, he weighed 2 pounds more, and has a 7’1 wingspan (+3" than Burks) (think about closing out on shots, blocking shots, deflections, passing lanes and steals), and was much faster on both ¾ court sprint and lane agility (both placing him within 3 standard deviations above average, Burks was only in the +2 STDEV range). Brooks also out jumps him by 2.5". But that’s only the physicals . . .
Remember when I pointed out that Burks had a 21/7/3/1/0 line in his last year of college? Brooks played 5 more mins a game but brought a 25/7/3/2/1 line. Yes, he also blocks a heck of a lot of shots for a shooting guard, not unlike Dwyane Wade. (Remember that huge Wade block in one of those East finals games against Derrick Rose to close out the series? Yeah. Brooks can do that.) So not only is Brooks better physically, he’s also better statistically. He’s also a four year college player. He may have less upside, but he’s ready to play now. (Unlike Burks who needs to work on both his shot and his defense) Brooks also shot 35% and 34% from deep his last two seasons in college from three. And he made over 2 a game in his last season. Burks only had 0.7 threes made a game.
Brooks also killed it in the Chicago Combine Shooting drills (again, Burks didn’t shoot because he didn’t want to draw attention to his questionable shooting ability). Brooks went 17/25 from NBA three range (1 less than Jimmer), and he also killed it on the untimed 15 to 18 feet off the dribble shot (making 16/18). That’s the place we saw Raja and Andrei miss from all season long. It’s also getting him the ball in the Harpring curl range. (Remember that play?) Over all Brooks was 7th best out of all the wings (31 players) in shooting. MarShon finished the day going 68.8%, for a point of reference, Jimmer finished the day going 69.9%. He doesn’t have Jimmer range, but he did put up 52 points in a big game last season; scoring at will against guys put out there to specifically stop him. Jimmer can’t defend like Brooks can though, or finish above the rim.
I’m obviously biased here, but Brooks seems (to me, a non-professional scout) the better player. (Don’t even get me starting on the difference in their relative Defensive gambling or Pure hustle values…) Maybe Burks will be the better player years from now when he learns how to defend and hit the three, but Brooks played more years (more seasoned), got better stats, has better range, is a better defender, and is more athletic. And we could have traded down for him, or traded into the draft for him. Instead, he’s going to be playing with Deron Williams and making the Nets a really interesting team to watch.
And if you’re not a MarShon Brooks fan – there were other guys undrafted that the Jazz could have taken over Burks as well. It’s not like this is a zero-sum game between the wing I liked and the wing we got. Guys still on the board when we picked were the Morris twins, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Singleton and so forth. You may have also liked those guys better than Burks, I don’t know. I don’t really have an opinion on any of them save for Singleton. It could be said that the Jazz didn't go BPA here.
Enes Kanter and Alec Burks are Jazz players
They were picked by the Jazz, the team I root for. They were scouted for years, evaluated, and were worked out in person. They had personal interviews. At the end of the day, the guys I have to put my faith in are putting their faith in these two young men. It’s more than loyalty that will make me root for them to succeed, but it’s also trust. You can always play Monday morning quarterback with the NBA draft, we all probably do. I remember being underwhelmed with the Gordan Hayward pick (not because he was bad, but because "the Precious" had to be good for all the years we protected it, and kept rejecting trades that requested it in return). Right now I think Hayward can be a starter in this league and has a lot going for him. I’m not upset about having Hayward on the team. In time, and if they work hard, I’m not going to be upset about Kanter or Burks either.
President Obama was elected president, despite not having a near 80% consensus from the voters (which would have been amazing if it happened). I don’t think Burks or Kanter had anywhere close to even 50% consensus with the people who visit the site. But like Obama said during his first huge speech as the president (elect) I will clearly state this:
"…and to those Jazz players for whom my support has not yet been earned, you may not have won my praise before the draft, but I will see you in a Jazz uniform, and I will see you help my team win games. And I will be your crazy, stats driven blogger who writes convincing pieces in your favor, too." - Me, right now.
I welcome Enes Kanter and Alec Burks to the Utah Jazz. May you both have very successful careers, and help our team win games. You both now have a place in my heart, and will cheer for you unconditionally. Welcome to the Jazz Ensemble. (Sounds better than saying "Jazz nation", which is pretty unoriginal.)
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About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 24, 2011 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Brooks
IF you adjust Brooks numbers for pace, usage and other corrections he becomes very ordinary. I read a very good article on that but do not remember the cite. That is why Brooks did not go higher in the draft.
This is a good post but there are somethings I would point out.
Scola and Haslem are not very good comparisons to Kanter. He is much bigger than them and should grow. I suspect he will be more like Love and Love is one of the most productive players in the NBA base on WP48.
Nowitzki plays away from the basket and should be guarded by Favors. Kanter is not Howard but he is big enough to patrol the paint. I expect him to gain 20 pounds to 280.
His outside shooting for a big is pretty good and should improve with development. He should be a better version of Memo with better defense.
Kanter probably replaces Okur and his expiring contract. There is less of a log jam than many claim. Further, Millsap may move to SF (I doubt if he can) but Evans should.
Burks should take many of Bell’s minutes. If AK stays then Hayward is the starting SG and that is very good as that should solve some of the paint packing problems.
Burks should do just fine with a year or two of development.
I think Pace is a great factor
BYU played at a crazy pace as well. Brooks isn’t the best player in this draft. He is going to be a very solid NBA player though.
Kanter’s potential physical development is something we’re interested in. He seems a little acromegalic to me, so I doubt that he’s still going to grow at his current age right now. I haven’t seen x-rays or anything to prove or disprove this though. I think his frame can put on some muscle mass still — he’s going to be a really good physical specimen — he just may not be a 7’er though.If we don’t resign Elson/Fes, we have only guys in the 6’8 to 6’11 range on the roster paroling the paint. What about Mavs, Lakers, Spurs, etc? Can’t say the same thing for them.
Scola comparison was for the maturity of post game. Haslem was to show the baseline, lowest common denominator for the minimum offensive skills you need to be able to play serious minutes on the floor in crunch time. Love is a great comparison, esp in terms of body size and rebounding / physicality.
I think ‘Better" version of memo with better defense is going to be hard. In Memo’s last full season he averaged over a block a game, while still shooting like 40% from three. Over his career in a Jazz uniform (reg and playoffs cumulative) he averages 15/8. If Kanter can be a double double guy that would be awesome. But that also means he’s going to have to be playing enough minutes to a) get that good, and b) get those numbers. If the Jazz move Okur at the trade deadline, or just don’t resign him then it makes things a little easier. But we both agree that Millsap wouldn’t be the best SF.
We both agree that Burks has the opportunity for playing time and the talent to improve. He will be fun to watch develop.
Great comment! Thanks for reading.
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 24, 2011 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Wasn't the knock on brooks that he didn't win many games?
If he doesn’t win does that mean he is missing some intangibles? I thought his defense was bad, that one game against ND when he scored 52 points they lost, because they let the other team shoot 70%. Though i don’t think alec won a lot of games either. I am just wondering why brooks fell so far.
by Evans Almighty on Jun 24, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Which you you rather have?
Would you rather get a guy that you don’t like, that turns out to be good (i.e. Hayward),
or
Get a guy who you like (either due to potential or abilities), and turns out good (i.e. Miles)
The only difference is your perception, but I think it is better to get the first. The value will seem better with the first option (even if in the end the player reaches the same skill)
So I hope most people don’t like the picks and then the picks achieve higher than their expectations.
The sad option is if people don’t like the picks and then they don’t work out (Kirk Snyder).
Or even worst if you like the picks and they don’t work out (Raul Lopez).
3 comments? I must be slipping
My last 55 posts (inc Sunday Syncopations that have been NOTHING) average 20.4 comments. My last 10? 27.5 comments. I better bring up gay marriage or stem cell research in my next post. (Please, no comments about this)
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 24, 2011 1:29 PM MDT reply actions
i remember one news clip on brooks that made me turn really cold towards him
as opposed to the meh i was feeling before. what they said was he had a kobe like selfishness, and that his teammates didn’t really like playing with him. being good and being clutch and having your team be ok with it is one thing, but having your team hate you because you don’t let them help you, thats not ok. so i didn’t really want brooks regardless of his skill
I wasn't aware that he was selfish.
If that’s the case he wouldn’t be capable of playing Jazz basketball.
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 24, 2011 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions
This is by no means comprehensive or airtight
But this truehoop post argues against 4 year players.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30479/is-age-a-factor-in-the-nba-draft
I think there are much more useful metrics to measure against draft age than all star selections (all NBA team selections would be more telling, for one) but the premise is an interesting one.
Dang it Amar, your article made me depressed for the ceiling of Enes Kanter
I was cautiously optimistic he’d be a good scorer and rebounder, and turn into a decent defender. Dashed away. lol
Hard to Say
I find it hard to say much about Kanter at this point. A lot of the things you are saying about Kanter could have also been said about Karl Malone when he came into the league.
Karl never was the tallest, best jumber, or quickest power forward on the floor. He was strong and physical, had great timing, good hands, a great mid-range jumper in his prime.
From the reports I’ve heard Kanter is built pretty well, no Karl Malone but he is still young. Kanter is taller, and seams to be ahead of the game on his shooting, and from all the scouts reports he loves to be physical inside.
There is a one in million shot of Kanter ever being as good as Malone (won’t happen), but just looking at his numbers is not reason enough to be completely down on him. He impressed Ty Corbin a lot, at this point that is good enough for me.
I think Enes will be okay
I think he could get a few player of the week awards and stuff like that in the future. I hope he does well. I think we’ll need to see him actually play before we get a great feel for him.
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 24, 2011 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions
That First Picture
makes Kanter look more like 6’8" than close to 7. Isn’t Burks like 6’5" ?
--Is that a hard cap in your CBA or are you just happy to see me?
Burks is 6'6
I believe.
Kanter is around 6’10.
I think the pic makes him looks smaller because he has his hat pulled all the way down on his head. Burks just as it sitting lightly on his head so it makes him look taller.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
So my question to you amar is the following?
Who do you move to clear up playing time for Enes Kanter? You might have an upcoming post about this, and i bet half the people on the blog do too. I have thought about it and i honestly don’t know which one of our bigs we should move.
(ps. I hope this gets the comments flowing)
Well, the sad reality is . . .
our guys getting injured now and then should make more room than we would have previously budgeted for.
I have no clue what to do just of yet. This would be WAY easier if there was a division of labor here. All of these guys (Big Al, Sap, Favors, Kanter, Evans, Memo, Kirilenko) should be GREAT power forwards if coupled with a legit defensive big (like an Eaton or Ostertag or Tyson Chandler type — not an offensive thread, but takes care of the paint).
Making Big Al or Kanter a ‘center’ kind of limits a) how great we can be defensively, and b) limits how you can more players around.This was the Memo issue implicitly. Memo was GREAT for our forward oriented offense in the post illegal defense rules where he could draw out a guy and keep the paint open. On defense, save for a spectacular season of dropping Yao Ming to -3 ppg (from hsi season avg vs. the Jazz) in single coverage, kind of suffered because of who we had on the floor.
None of the guys listed are lock-down guys in the paint. Not now, not ever I don’t think. Favors is a great weakside shot blocker and good rebounder. Big Al and Sap both are good rebounders, but aren’t capable of D-upping someone like Dwight Howard (who has zero post moves). Kanter? I think he’ll be good, but again, not great. Evans is too skinny to be an intimidator / one on one post defender. AK? He could be gone.
I still think we’re going to NEED that big 7’ footer who is a defense first dude who doesn’t take shots away from more talented players. That’s kind of the key to not only our historical playoff success — but also what all the good teams who made it far had. (Perkins, Marc Gasol (good offense too), Tyson Chandler, J. Noah, even that crew in Miami had some role playing bigs)
I think we have to figure out if
a) we want to aim for the title
or
b) roll with what we have and be happy with 5 playoff wins on average, every year we may the playoffs. (Which is what we averaged over the last 25 years)
If we want to do A, then making time for Kanter now, and shuffling around guys like Millsap to SF are pointless. If we’re going to go for A, we’re going to need to make bigger, grander changes. That may mean, in the long run, getting rid of BOTH Millsap and Big Al. Which is probably what we should do.
If we want to do B, then getting rid of only one of Al and Sap is needed, and next year letting Memo walk (to Miami) will be fine. Then we go to work with Favors / Kanter / and Pall Jeffersap. And we win 50 games. And we win these games by trying to
beat other teams by scoring on them; not by stopping them.
And yes — I do have a blog post on this in the works, lol
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 24, 2011 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Player comparisons:
Player A:
Height: 7’0
Weight: 223
Wingspan: 7’ 1.25’’
Standing Reach: 8’10.5’’
No Step Vert: 32’’
Max Vert: 37.5’’
Bench Press Reps: 12
Lane Agility: 11.79
3/4 Sprint: 3.47
Player B:
Height: 6’11.25’’
Weight: 259
Wingspan: 7’ 1.5’’
Standing Reach: 9’ 1.5’’
No Step Vert: 26’’
Max Vert: 32.5’’
Bench Press Reps: 14
Lane Agility: 11.30
3/4 Sprint: 3.26
Player C:
Height: 6’ 9.75’’
Weight: 246
Wingspan: 7’ 0.75’’
Standing Reach: 8’ 11’’
No Step Vert: 31’’
Max Vert: 35.5’’
Bench Press Reps: 20
Lane Agility: 12.15
3/4 Sprint: 3.37
Player D:
Height: 6’ 9.5’’
Weight: 255
Wingspan: 6’ 11.25’’
Standing Reach: 8’ 10’’
No Step Vert: 29.5’’
Max Vert: 35’’
Bench Press Reps: 18
Lane Agility: 11.17
3/4 Sprint: 3.22
by scrantonicity33 on Jun 24, 2011 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Player A: Noah
Player B: Kanter
Player C: Horford
Player D: Love
by scrantonicity33 on Jun 24, 2011 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions
I have no idea how Kanter is going to be.
But in regards to Love, he has a knack for getting rebounds like only true elite rebounders have. He has the ability to know where the ball is going and get there before everyone else. Plus he has other intangibles that make him borderline elite as a basketball player.
I could say different things about both Noah and Horford that also set them apart which cannot be measured conventionally.
Maybe Kanter posses these and maybe he doesn’t. I think whether he will be a good player, or possibly great, is if he does apply these tools you just listed him having. If he wants to do the dirty work and put in the time I believe he can be a good defender. But that is entirely up to him.
That is pretty freakin impressive.
When it comes to measurements.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
If I understand these measurements correctly,
Kanter has good height and reach, but is weak and can’t jump. Right?
Yeah
that’s how I’d read it. I just keep hearing people say he’s undersized. I was especially surprised seeing his measurements compared to Noah. He must seem taller/longer cause of his hair or something.
by scrantonicity33 on Jun 24, 2011 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Plus
I wouldn’t say weak. He’s a lot younger than those guys were (except for Love) when they were drafted. A few years does a lot in terms of adding overall all strength.
by scrantonicity33 on Jun 24, 2011 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
How can you call a guy
who is built like an OX and has 5% body fat weak? He’s only going to get bigger too. I mean he works out 4 hours a day.
For the Love of the Game
Stockton to Malone- The perfect combination!!
"I think he just said, 'Oh my Gosh,' or whatever they say in Provo."- ESPN talking about QB. Max Hall after BYU defeated third ranked Oklahoma (2009).
MonSTARZ forever!
yeah i agree
It might be to early to tell but I’m not so sure how good fava fav will be on defense. He could be that lock down defender your talking about plus I think its also too early to tell about kanter defensively I am not sure that one of them can’t play center.
by Evans Almighty on Jun 24, 2011 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions
I think this is a good question impacting both Kanter AND Favors.
Of course shipping Paul or Al comes to mind immediately because we could secure some great assets in return for them and neither has provided the defense we need.But personally, I don’t know if you can decide right now. The Jazz are still experimenting with both of them and I don’t think we know what we have just yet.
Al: Al can certainly produce statistically, but whether he can contribute wins is still in question. A lot of fans have already given up on Al. I’m not quite ready to give up on him. He came into the league at a very young age and spent most of his time in a losing organization. He was then welcomed in Utah with high expectations, a roster that had just lost several key players, and a new offense. It was clear from the beginning the pressure of the situation was getting to him and that he wasn’t the quickest at picking things up. Then of course the team imploded.
Personally I don’t know if this is the best year to decide whether Al is our guy or not. What I do know is that bad habits take time to break and that all reports indicate that Al has been living in the gym this summer. I’m willing to give him at least until the trade deadline to see if he can learn to pass better and commit himself to defense. (maybe Derrick can teach him how to show on the PnR and still recover.) Another training camp and healthy competition from our young bigs will do him some good.
Paul: It’s clear at this point that we’re not heading to the finals with Paul as our starting PF. Yet, as recently as today Kevin O’Connor mentioned that the Jazz are still interested in trying him at the 3. Like Al, he clearly wasn’t comfortable in this new role last year (the little he did play the 3), but again, I’m not willing to give up on it just yet. If Paul can start at the 3 and/or play back up minutes at the PF spot, he’d provide a lot of talent at a reasonable price.
I’m for starting Jefferson and Favors moving forward and letting Kanter and Mehmet come off the bench with Paul snagging some minutes here or there. Of course this is just moving into next year. Paul is not going to be a career SF and while we are bigger, its not clear that any of these players will become the defensive presence most championship teams have. Favors has potential, but he may never get there. Either way, we shouldn’tt make a trade until we have a better idea as to what we have, especially with Jefferson. As long as Favors is getting around 30 minutes and Kanter is getting 20+ by season end we’ll be fine. Then if the experiment fails we ship Jefferson or Paul or both for the Noah./ Chandler type center we’ve always wanted. Or continue to invest in the future and get some picks in the upcoming (and apparently loaded) draft.
What say ye?
"Deep, deep in my heart I'm a Jazzman. All this summer, I knew I was
going to come back. I couldn't imagine my career without Jerry." -Fes
Follow this: @johnmrobert
by Alexandria VA on Jun 24, 2011 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Milsap seems like the odd man out
I love Milsap. Especially his heart, he’s a true Jerry Sloan type player. Part of me will die when he goes. I hope that if he’s moved they ship him to the east so we don’t have to watch him torment us 4 times a year.
However, his trade value isn’t getting any higher, and he’s taking away valuable minutes from our young bigs. Like you said we’re not winning a championship with him as our starter at the 4 and he’s not really a 3.
As much as I hate to say, we need to move him or Jefferson for a quality wing. Iguodala anybody? Or if you prefer, a defensive minded legit center like Bogut who is rumored to be available.
by socaljazzfan on Jun 25, 2011 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions
poster
Let me know if you want a poster called Turkish Dynasty showing Kanter and Okur wearing plush white bathrobes, chilling at a spa, both wearing tons of bling.
I love to read your posts, Amar
My iPad, on the other hand, hates them.
It is so damn true
I can’t figure out why, but the pics on the iPad are a huge problem. Literally.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I don't think it's just iPads
The pics and charts Amar puts up are nearly always distorted for me too. I have tried IE, Firefox, and Chrome with the same results.

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