Sunday Syncopation # 34
Wow, now that the draft is (pretty much) done and gone, let’s get back to all the other parts of basketball . . .
Social Media be CRAZY!
Do you remember a world where we didn’t have things like Facebook and Twitter? I couldn’t imagine actually being a blogger in those days – not just for the way that we can easily find other people who have the same crazy obsession about the NBA to talk with; but because access to the players would be that much more difficult. Well, for a stats guy like me it wouldn’t have been the end of the world. I would just continue to blog about the stats. But thankfully we don’t live in that world. We live in a connected one where the NBA has had to make rules about social media behavior. You know that in the rookie pre-season NBA adjustment camp that is mandatory that they go over this quite a bit. They do not want to have any more Charlie Villanueva (@CV31) repeats (where he was tweeting at halftime during a game).
That said, over the last week or so the Jazz PR guy has been going crazy getting more guys on twitter. Of course we’ve had guys on twitter before. So here’s the combined list that I have so far . . . (which may be incomplete or wrong – feel free to correct me):
- Alec Burks - @AlecBurks10
- C.J. Miles - @CJMiles34
- Derrick Favors - @dfavors14
- Devin Harris - @34waystoassist
- Enes Kanter - @Enes_Kanter
- Gordon Hayward - @gordonhayward
- Kyle Weaver - @kyleweaver5
- Marc Cousin - @BigMarc50
Ronnie Price - @OfficialRP17 - seems to be taken down
There are some front office types as well out there, here are two.
- Jazz CEO Greg Miller - @GregInUtah
- Jazz President Randy Rigby - @riggs88
These lists aren’t comprehensive, and do not include all the current players on different teams, nor does it include former players who have since retired. And of course, there are a number of guys out there who have family members, girlfriends, and right hand men out on twitter as well. You can find them on your own . . . some are purely for shock value; however, some of these people are actually basketball fans first, and Jazz family members second. You may be surprised with the value of tweeting with some of them.
Stats Class:
So, Mark Jackson is a coach now. How crazy is that? I want to make fun of him more, but as much as we love Ty Corbin, he only has 8 coaching wins (record: 8-20 – 28.6 win %). Sure, Ty has been coaching for a long time though, as an assistant. He also has been coaching for years in the Summer league. As a head coach, though, he’s only has 8 wins more than a guy who has never coached before. How much of that is him, and how much of that is the situation? Last season in the post-Sloan / post-Deron era we had not only the problem of trying to win games with all the craziness of losing your head coach and best player, but we also had a ton of injuries and were playing against some really good teams as well. Those would have been hard wins to get for Red Auerbach, let alone a rookie head coach.
As a franchise, though, we have a crazy sense of understanding of the term Head Coach. For starters, we’ve only had 7 total head coaches. Ever. Even back in the New Orleans days. How many coaches have the Toronto Raptors or Los Angeles Clippers had just in the span of Jerry Sloan’s tenure here? Eight each? 12? Is there even a number that high? Anyway, here’s the list of all the head coaches we’ve had in the entire history of the franchise:
- Scotty Robertson
- Butch Van Breda Kolff
- Elgin Baylor
- Tom Nissalke
- Frank Layden
- Jerry Sloan
- Tyrone Corbin
And here are their relative success rates as a head coach for the Jazz:
Pie Chart? Why the heck not . . .
Clearly, in our understanding of the term, we’ve really only known one coach – Jerry Sloan. As a result, our initial understanding of Tyrone will be somewhat out of touch for what the regular competence, tenure, and ability is for the average NBA coach. I actually do see a time, in a potential reality 3 seasons down the line where if we continue to perform poorly, that some fans may start calling for his head. And that would kill me, because despite what he has so far had to work with, his performance isn’t in line with his ability. Our franchise is run on stability. (Really, only 7 coaches ever.) Tyrone is like a small seedling right now, if you shake him around too much he’s not going to develop the strong roots to grow into a strong, healthy, and productive plant. (Can you tell it’s gardening season for Amar?) I’m excited for all of our new players, but I’d be lying if I wasn’t excited about Tyrone’s growth as a head coach as well.
Time will tell where he fits in the continuum of Jazz coaches . . . because of youth, I expect his win percentage to be low for another year. But in two seasons we should be winning at least half our games and knocking on the door of the playoffs as well. Why am I so confident? Well, because Ty learned how to coach under a damn good coach himself.
Video of the Week:
Can it be Antoine Carr time nao? Yes. The Original Big Dog played in the NBA for 16 years, mostly spread out in three distinct blocks (Atlanta Hawks for 6 years, San Antonio Spurs for 3 years, and the Utah Jazz for 4). In between he played for the Sacramento Kings, and after Utah, the Houston Rockets and Vancouver Grizzlies. He has played in 1094 total games (987 regular season, 107 playoffs) and managed 9.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.9 bpg, and about 6.2 intimidations per game. He had a number of great seasons, and as far as being a role playing big, had 21 games in the playoffs where he scored 10 or more points. The vast majority (13) were with the Jazz. While it was not his highest scoring game, I think his best ever game (in the big picture) was in the 1998 NBA Finals. It was the Game 5 win for the Jazz, a 2 point victory, that wasn't decided until the very end. The Big Dog he finished the game with the second most points (5/6 FG, 2/2 FT – 12 points) in a much needed Utah Jazz victory against the Chicago Bulls. Jeff Hornacek went 2/7 in this game. John Stockton went 3/7. Bryon Russell went 2/6. The rest of the bench (minus Carr) went 4/11. Huge game. And he came up huge. Anyway, enjoy the video by YouTube superstar TheKingMisiek:
Hope you didn’t miss . . . .
- Andrew Unterberger (@AUgetoffmygold), who you may remember as the guy who saw a home game at all 30 NBA arenas this year, catalogued his Top 100 moments from the 2010-2011 NBA season. There aren’t a lot of Jazz moments, but breaking into the #5 spot is Paul Millsap’s Miracle in Miami. Millsap is a really good player that I think we overlook. He was super huge in that road game in Houston where he just couldn’t miss. But the Miami game was that much bigger – I don’t think we recognize how clutch that performance was. Sure, he was shooting crazy three pointers, but how about the basketball IQ for the last minute offensive rebound and put back to send the game to overtime? You can check out the full list at TheBasketballJones blog at theScore.ca.
- Spencer Ryan Hall (@saltcityhoops) at SaltCityHoops, had a great podcast where he talked about the NBA draft. However, what’s more important in this podcast is his talk about the Utah Flash. The Flash are a subject that is both near and dear to my heart. I love the concept of a farm system, and I would love the concept of using a farm team. This only makes increasing sense as the NBA (and the Jazz particularly) draft younger players who do not stay for all four years in college. As a result, when they come to the NBA, they are far from being able to contribute from day one. Using a farm system gives the pro team a chance to give younger guys playing time, coaching, and develop them without having to play them in the NBA and lose NBA games as a result. The Jazz had drafted a number of guys where this type of system would have been super useful, and perhaps have been super effective as well. For example, wouldn’t it have satisfied all parties in the pro-Fes / anti-Fes camps if he just played for 2 years straight with the Flash instead? I would have been happy with that. Instead he sat with the Jazz and did not get significantly better as a result. Which is dumb. I love the Flash. I love the D-League. And now the Jazz have neither – which is especially bad in a year where we have a lockout coming. (The Lockout does not affect the NBA D-League, btw, so it’ll be here next year even if the NBA is not) Great planning, Jazz! Great way to make the most of the things that are given to you, literally at your doorstop. Check it all out at SaltCityHoops, part of the ESPN Truehoop network.
- The NBA Draft has come and gone . . . and there were a number of great highlights. The Draft is really my favorite day of the year. (Not hyperbole either, it’s way better than my birthday or something selfish like that) It’s like the happy ending to 60 movies all in one night. Getting your dream job is rare. For the majority of these kids they have been working very hard for years to make it to the NBA. It doesn’t matter if they will never play in an NBA game, being drafted puts them in very elite company. Professionally saying that you were "an NBA draft pick" is pretty cool. What’s cooler than just being a draft pick? Being Jan Vesely and going full-Public Display of Affection on TVs all over the world. Awesome.
- That we drafted Enes Kanter and Alec Burks in the 2011 NBA Draft? There’s a ton of opinion about this. Spencer Campbell (@theutahjazzblog), from TheUtahJazzBlog / Podcast, was quick on the draw and found them all over the net and put them up in a post. Over all the opinion is that we did pretty well. Let’s not forget that we had two lotto picks, and one of them went way higher than it should have been because of a little lottery luck. What I’m saying here is that we had good picks and we didn’t screw them up. As always, the Bill Simmons draft stream of consciousness rant is fun to read. Check out his take, and all the other opinions at TheUtahJazzBlog.
- Moni (@monilogue) is one of the best Jazz bloggers out there. I’d say she was Top 3 All-Time, because no one out works her. She collected all the quotes from Kanter, Burks, Kevin O’Connor and the rest of the Jazz family into a post. Also what’s great is the Jazz math problem, check it out at JazzFanatical.
- Clint Peterson (@Clintonite33) took the time out to actually time Enes Kanter’s shot. He breaks down the shot into a series of movements and does an analysis of his shot mechanics. As a frame of reference he does the same for our own Mehmet Okur and also for perhaps the greatest shooter ever, the Celtics guard Ray Allen. The results are, or were for me at least, not surprising. Perhaps I have a little bit of confirmation bias around ‘proofs’ that support my current feelings about Kanter . . . but this was a very solid piece that you can catch at TheUtahJazzBlog.(Not Safe for people who have a medical condition preventing them from seeing amazing photoshops)
- Of course, I already wrote about how I have concerns for both of these guys . . . but in true Jazz Fan Fashion, I’m going to yell and root for them because they are on my team. You probably already read it over here, at SLCDunk.
Did you know . . . ?:
- That out of the 171 total Draft Picks that the New Orleans / Utah Jazz have made that the most frequent college / university that these players have come from is not a college at all. It’s international – of which we have 10 players: Aleksander Belov (’75), Joe Kazanowski (’83), Martin Muursepp (’96), Andrei Kirilenko (’99), Raul Lopez (’01), Alexsandar Sasha Pavlovic (’03), Pavel Podkolzin (’04), Ante Tomic (’08), Tadija Dragicevic (’08), and Enes Kanter (’11). Yes, not all of them actually played in the NBA; however, the list is larger if you include international players that did not make this list like Goran Suton (Euro who played at MSU), and Kyrylo Fesenko (who we did not draft, but traded his draft rights for at the hefty cost of the draft rights to Herbert Hill).
The next most frequent colleges and universities are:
- The University of Kansas (John Douglas ’78, Kelly Knight ’84, Greg Ostertag ’95, Jacque Vaughn ’97)
- The University of Minnesota (John Shasky ’86, Quincy Lewis ’99, and Kris Humphries ’04).
- The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (Rich Schmidt ’75, Deron Williams ’05, Dee Brown ’06); which also included Roger Powell (undrafted rookie, ’06) on the team as well.
- The University of Georgia (Jacky Dorsey ’76, Dominique Wilkins ’82, Shandon Anderson ’96)
- Stanford University (Rich Kelly ’75, Wolfe Perry ’79, Jarron Collins ’01)
- Providence College (Billy Donovan ’87, Eric Murdock ’91, and Herbert Hill ’07 – who was traded for on draft night for Fes as previously mentioned)
- The University of Boston (Ken Boyd ’74, Ernie Cobb ’79, Wally West ’80)
- For you Utahns out there, there were two guys drafted by the Jazz from BYU (Alan Taylor ’80, Steve Trumbo ’82), and only one from Utah (Greg Deane ’79). Yes, two > one; however none of the BYU guys actually played in the NBA, while Deane played in 7 games.
Anyway, that’s it for another week. Tell me in the comments section if you like the new format. Tell me if you don’t. I like feedback. Always remember that this is your SLCDUNK – participation isn’t mandatory but it makes us that much more a fun place to visit during the doldrums of what looks like to be a very long off-season.
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Coach breakdown
Thanks for a great Sunday post. The information and breakdown of the Jazz coaches was fascinating. I knew Jerry was dominant, but not quite to this extent. I worry a little that Jazz fans will not be willing to give Ty the 3 or so years he may need to develop a winning team. The Jazz have been so consistant for so long, I don’t think the aveage fan has much parience. Allready there is a post on a Jazz fan site talking about being in the Finals in 2-3 years, I am hoping they can just win a play-off series within 2-3 years.
by fingersone on Jun 26, 2011 3:07 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I think patience is the key here
We’re not fielding a team willed with Stockton to Malone style vets who have all been in the L for a decade.
We’re not reloading (fully) with proven vets from other teams either. (Earl Watson / Fran Elson . . . ?)
We’re also (at least pretending) to give younger players some playing time here.
The NBA Finals in 2-3 years is just as unlikely as me winning some reality TV show looking for the next great singer.
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 26, 2011 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
jazz
I think the Jazz are lucky if they win 33 or 34 games next year and like you said, if they can win a few playoff games or a series in 2-3 years, that is about as much as we can expect
even when they had Stockton and Malone, it took the team about 12 or 13 years to achieve their potential; no reason to think that Favors and Kanter and Heyward will magically be good in their 2nd or 3rd years;
Deron was probably 1 of the top 6 or 7 players in the whole NBA (LBJ, Wade, Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Durrant are some of those who were better than Deron) and it’s going to take years to replace that
by scott smith on Jun 26, 2011 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Btw, I should have asked this . . .
If you vote “Yes”, why did you vote yes.
If you vote “No”, why did you vote no.
I ask because I’m trying to get better at this, and give the readers what they want.
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 26, 2011 3:40 PM MDT reply actions
I enjoyed the info in this
Although the twitter stuff strains the basketball connection for me. Then again, I don’t have a facebook page yet so I’m an outlier on that front.
to be fair
there isn’t going to be a twitter section each week. this was a one time deal because over the last few days a lot of questions on twitter have come up about GUYS on twitter who are on the team
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 26, 2011 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I have always wanted a list of the people to follow
I also would like a list of fellow bloggers to follow as well
by Evans Almighty on Jun 27, 2011 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions
vesely
he and his girlfriend (also a baller) have apparently known each other since elem. school, and they met on the basketball court. his dad was her geography teacher.
by moni on Jun 26, 2011 6:31 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
see, this is why you rock
About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jun 26, 2011 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I usually keep my Sloan mourning under control
but after reading this I had to grab my Sloan shirt from my closet and put it on. And now I’m on my 6th chocolate chip cookie as I try to eat away the sadness. But loved the post.
"We can’t put diapers on him one night, and a jockstrap the next night. It’s just the way it is." -Sloan on a certain player
Sunday Syncopation is one of my fav parts of Sunday
And I really like the new setup. Breaks it down into nice easily digested segments.
Keep up the good work Amar!
Utah>*
Jazz record
From February through the end of the season, the Jazz went something like 10-23. Granted, they had injuries to numerous players. They practically kept every hospital in the state busy with various injuries, half of which it seemed like were exaggerated by the players. Granted, they had a brand new HC and were struggling with team identity following loss of DW and JS. Still, 10-23 is pretty awful. For a season that is a pace of 24 or 25 wins. Give them maybe an additional 9 or 10 wins off that pace and they probably win 33, 34, 35 games this year.
I don’t expect Kanter or Burks to get much playing time. The Jazz underutilized Heyward last year and Favors as well. A lot of the increased time Heyward and Favors got at year end was due to injuries to other players such as Bell and AK.
I think the X factor is Harris, if he is healthy and can be a team leader, they can probably do better than 33 or 34 wins. If he is injured or fails to lead the team, it’s going to be tough for them to win since they such a terrible backcourt without him.
Yes, but...
I think they had 3 straight wins to end the season against playoff teams. The future looks bright. I just hope the fans and management have patience to work through the growing pains. Is there any reason we couldn’t be legit title contenders within 3-4 years under the landscape of a CBA which levels the playing field a little bit?
--Is that a hard cap in your CBA or are you just happy to see me?
The catch there is "CBA which levels the playing field"
Miami had a smaller payroll than the Jazz last year by about 7 million dollars. They were one of the best teams in the league because three players took less money than the maximum they were allowed to take in order to be on that team together. How does the league structure a CBA that discourages or prevents that; and if they managed to do so would the players go for it?
I started writing a fanpost about possible fixes for the league. The only things a CBA can do to fix things is to limit how much an incompetent front office can hurt itself. (shorter contracts, less guaranteed money, performance incentives, etc…) I don’t see a fair way to prevent what the Heat did. I’m sure smarter people than me are on the case, but I haven’t read anything with a realistic fix for it either. Has anyone else?
Hard Cap.
I agree that players can, will and even should be able to pick a team, and play for less to get on it. (My wildest fantasy would be to have insane bball skills, hire no agent and just play for the Jazz for the league min and win 10 championships in a row.)
What I’m talking about is a hard cap. If every single team in the league can only spend $X total for the year (maybe with injury exceptions only) then the ability to go out and ‘buy’ a championship goes away.
Dallas’ payroll approached $90mil. If the Jazz had $90 mil to spend, I’d like their chances too.
--Is that a hard cap in your CBA or are you just happy to see me?
But how does a hard cap prevent the next Miami team from forming?
It stops teams like LA, Dallas, and New York from simply buying championship teams. But if they’re paying market value for their players, at the end of the day I don’t have a huge issue with that.
I have a much bigger issue with Miami (the organization) getting star talent in free agency at a discount that wasn’t available to 31 other teams. That seems more damaging to parity and more difficult to stop.
Maybe...
Maybe we could be a team that is considered a contender, but with the amount of youth on our team, it is probably not very realistic. If you look historically at those teams that win it all, in almost every case, most of the leadership is in its late twenties/early thirties. It just takes a while, for whatever reason, to learn to win in the playoffs. Youth can dominate the regular season (like OKC), but winning it all is a different story. If you consider the Thunder a “contender”, then I think we could reach that level, but I would not consider the Thunder a legit contender in the mold of more seasoned teams like the Lakers and Heat.

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