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Things you always hated . . .

I'm constantly in the middle of some really long posts. As a consequence, I don't post very frequently. This Friday afternoon I wanted to rectify that by making a short sweet - audience participation - style post. Simply put -- what are some of the things about your team that you've always hated? (Yeah, next week expect a "Things you always loved . . ." post.)


Here are some of mine.

Star-divide

This isn't supposed to be overly negative, but be accurate. You can like something/someone but still see the flaws in it/them.

  • Pout-y Deron Williams -- D-Will was one of the most talented guards in the league, and Top 3 All-Time in Jazz franchise history. When things are not going his way and he starts to deflect blame onto the refs, his team mates or whatever he starts to pout. When he's in this mode is seems to lack his killer instinct, and seems to nurse the chip on his shoulder, instead of play better because of it.
  • Catch-22 Memo -- This is simply put a Catch-22 and not really something I hate, but a problem with Mehmet Okur that I think we all grieve over at some point -- he's the king of the long two pointer because one of his feet happens to always be on the line. If he takes this shot it is the appreciable difficulty of a three pointer, with the ultimate reward of only two points. If he takes the time to get both feet behind the three point line he is out of rhythm and the defender has a chance to get in his face. Either he takes the long two (which usually goes in), or he gathers himself for a three (that has a lower chance to go in).
  • Jerry Sloan needing a whipping boy / dog house -- We all know that Jerry Sloan is a great coach. But sometimes needing a whipping boy seems outdated. I know Jerry always said that motivating players wasn't his job, but you know what? Motivating players was exactly one aspect of his job that he never did. Yes, Jerry did a lot of things well. But he did this one thing very poorly. What is worse is that over his very long coaching career he did not appear to get better or improve in this regard either. Jerry's motivation ability was like Shaq's free throw shooting over his career -- both couldn't bother to work on it.
  • Greg Ostertag's mental focus -- the easy thing to be upset about Greg would be his lack of consistency. I'd rather be annoyed by his lack of mental focus. There were countless times on offense where he wouldn't even be following what was happening with the ball. There were countless times on defense where he would just let his man shoot over him, without putting his arms up. Even if he was inconsistent in action he could have at least been mentally 'in' the games he was playing. Sometimes he'd block 3 shots in a game. Sometimes he'd get three fouls in the first half. That's inconsistent. What was worse was that he'd be super focused one play, and then spend the next five plays trying to remember the Wheel of Fortune puzzle answers from a show he watched last week.
  • Andrei Kirilenko and Matt Harpring's inherent incompatibility -- You may not remember it, but there was a time when Jerry Sloan would start both of these guys (Andrei at the 2). Aside from that season they both did play hundreds of minutes on the floor together. They just did not work out very well with one another. There was a level of competition between the two that existed, and fans could be guilty of seeing situations that may not have actually been there. For example, it seemed like Matt Harpring would miss a lot more layups than usual, when the assisting pass was made by Andrei. Furthermore, Andrei seemed to save his most spectacular passes, with the least possibility of being caught, for Matt when the two were on a fast break. It makes no sense for people to make work harder for one another, especially when the are on the same team. Perceptions aside, neither of them made life easier for one another - as both were paint oriented non-athletic wings who has shaky accuracy from any type of range outside of 15 feet.
  • Carlos Boozer's mouth -- from saying "AAANNNND ONNNNEEE!!!!111!!!" on any shot attempt close to the basket (many of which would miss) to saying on the radio in Miami and Chicago that a deal was in place (2 years before free agency) Boozer put in the time, consistently, to lose what little respect I had for him.
  • Jarron Collins' career arc -- We've had a lot of crappy centers in our franchise history. But did you know that Jarron Collins actually got worse every year from his rookie year. He did. Look it up if you don't believe me.
  • Kyrylo Fesenko's confidence -- part of this is his fault, part of this is the coaching staff's fault, and part of this is the fault of perception. He's afraid to make a mistake because a mistake will bench him. Because he's afraid to make a mistake he shuns basketball instinct and confidence on the court by over-thinking things (which is very hard to do when you only have 74 brain cells). By playing timid and mechanical he makes it easy for the refs to call travels and fouls on him. He's in a no win situation, and as easy as it is to blame everyone else -- I am willing to put the majority of the blame on himself here. I'm quite the Fesenko apologist, partly because we've seen what he's capable of doing. He's physically intimidated the biggest stars in the NBA. He's been capable of finishing plays near the rim. We've seen him use spin move dunks and away from the basket hook shots off of post ups. We've seen him change a ton of shots - he is actually the best guy at closing out on guys spotting up on the team according to MySynergySports. He just doesn't do it all game long. And it's not a concentration issue, Fes is totally dialed into the game. Even on the bench he's often the first to react to things on the court. It's not a consistency issue either because he doesn't get consistent playing time to prove it. (His metric stats, like rebound % seems stable game to game) He's like the cowardly lion because he gets called for dumb fouls by the refs, and gets yelled at and benched by the coaches (for actually trying to play defense -- Boozer was never yelled at for NOT trying, btw).
  • Brevin Knight's butter fingers -- remember when he joined the team? He already knew all the plays because he played against Sloan for over a decade at this point? He was supposed to be that great back-up PG that we've searched for since Howard Eisley left. Instead, man, all I remember was his inability to shoot from range (sound familiar Earl Watson?), but also he was a turn over machine. Even in the back court when not defended. Ridiculous.
  • Gordan Giricek's travel 'go to' move -- Giricek was not as bad as we may remember him to be. I have no doubt in my mind that he would win a one on one game against Kyle Korver, easily. He has a way more complete game -- for one, he can do more than just be a spot up shooter. Unfortunately, we only got to see that complete game for about 60 games because the rest of the time all we'd see him do is get called for traveling because he'd move his feet before putting the ball on the floor. That used to piss me off, especially because he was also a better defender of 2 guards than Derek Fisher was (who was starting at shooting guard, if you remember). If you re-watch that Houston/Utah seven game series you'll see Giricek playing better defense on Tracy McGrady than Matt Harpring and Derek Fisher. Of course, because of Sloan's Doghouse and Giricek's traveling problems he didn't get more playing time. We did turn him into Kyle Korver, and had a lot of success with him because Kyle knew better than trying to put the ball on the floor. (Which probably worked better for Deron Williams as well)
  • David Benoit and open three pointers. Not going into it.
  • Bobby Hansen and the inability to make easy plays -- you may not remember watching much of him. He played a few seasons ago. He had to do all the crappy jobs for those Jazz teams, like defend Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan. He also had no idea how to finish easy plays. Behind the back layup in traffic between two defenders? No trouble. Open jumper from 5 feet? Mission Impossible for that dude. It was very frustrating for me.
  • Morris Almond's "I gotta get mine" mentality -- Morris Almond is an NBA talent. Sure, he's not at the NBA level at all aspects of the game, but scoring -- for sure. I don't think this can be argued. Passing the ball? Not so much. Sure, part of it was playing at Rice where he was the best scorer. Part of it was going down to the Flash where they didn't even run the Jazz offense, and they just let Morris do whatever he wanted to do. Part of it was whenever he got playing time on the Jazz, he was also the only good player out there in garbage time. There's a lot of "situational factors" that led to Almond never passing. His entire post-High School career was all build upon positively reinforcing the fact that passing the ball meant his team had a worse chance to win games. It's no surprise that he brought that to Utah. It's no surprise that is part of why he's not in the league any more.
  • Ronnie Brewer's jump shot -- not his fault, but man, so bad.
  • Milt Palacio's clutch ability -- you remember Boler used to call him "Cap'n Crunch" ? Man . . . I hated that.

Add your own!

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  • Pouty Deron. Easily one of my biggest frustrations as a Jazz fan. And Deron’s easily one of my favorite players—buy man, pouty Deron inhibits how good he can be.
  • Ostertag. He had the talent to be a multiple-time All-Star. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise.
  • Boozer’s defense. It was the worst I have ever seen in all my time watching basketball. I hated his D even worse than his mouth.
  • Speaking of Boozer—how little his teammates gave a crap about him. Even in the darkest days of last year’s turmoil, the players actually liked each other as people. But Boozer … I never felt any good vibes about him from the other players. The most imbedded memory is that of him sitting on the bench, staring into space, while his teammates around him are smiling, joking, talking about the game, etc.
  • Ostertag standing outside the 3-point line, pointing at his defender in the paint, shouting “He’s illegal.” Ugh. He could have contributed so much, but it seemed like that’s all he did.
  • Arroyo in year 2. I had so many high hopes for him. He played surprising well in the infamous ‘04 team. He led Puerto Rico to a win over the U.S. And it went to his head. From the first training camp footage he struck me as a guy who suddenly thought he was a superstar—and I could tell it wasn’t going to end well.
  • AK-bashing. I despise how hyperbolic they get. And they got so hyperbolic that fans lost sight of what he was contributing. It’s fine to discuss players’ weaknesses and flaws—they all have them, and that’s what fans talk about—but AK-bashing always felt so far over-the-top—more so than any other player.
  • Sloan mellowing. In the glory days if Karl and John weren’t playing hard on D he’d yank them out fast and go with the scrubs. It didn’t happen often, because they were Karl and John, but it happened. I can’t remember him doing it once to Boozer, or anyone else on the more recent teams.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Jul 29, 2011 4:01 PM MDT reply actions  

How you feel about AK-bashing is how I feel about Big Al-Bashing.

Al has a lot of faults, P&R defense, shot selection, etc. but I feel like people started blaming Al for everything that went wrong last year and lost sight of the things Al did well, because the team was losing. I think everything you said about AK could also be said about Al.

by BobbyD31 on Aug 1, 2011 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

And speaking of Jarron Collins

Did you know that Deron has blocked more shots in his career than Jarron Collins?

It’s true: 104 for Deron and 98 for Jarron Collins.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Jul 29, 2011 4:03 PM MDT reply actions  

Hell

Even Earl Watson has blocked more shots than Jarron Collins.

I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time

by Yucca Man on Jul 29, 2011 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

I bet even Muggsy Bogues

had more blocked shots than Jarron Collins. In any event, we know Muggsy once blocked a shot by Patrick Ewing—Collins never did that! ;)

Okay, so maybe Muggsy didn’t have more (he had 39), but Spud Webb had more blocks than both Deron and Jarron. He had 111.

"Three-pointer from the parking lot...YES! The Golden Griff!"

by Dr. Dunkenstein on Jul 29, 2011 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Love this.
  • It’s not so much pouty Deron that I hated – although I could have definitely done without that – it was the Deron that whined to the refs. Over and over. He could be seen pleading to the refs when his teammates were already on the other end of the floor, ready to play. Hey dude – shut your mouth and play ball. Watch how Millsap does it if you can’t figure it out yourself.
  • Last possession on the shot clock, Deron dribbling around at the top of the arc, waiting til the clock got to 6 or 8 seconds before making his move. Too many times the ball was fumbled away or a dish/pass was tipped and we ended up with NOTHING because we waited so long. Drove me crazy!
  • Boozer’s yelling AND ONE before the damn ball even went into the basket. Get real.

Do I look like someone who would waste my own time?

by SurlyMae on Jul 29, 2011 4:55 PM MDT reply actions  

lol

Boozer on every missed shot: —GRAB IT!——

by Jope on Jul 30, 2011 11:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Here's one:

AK trying to split defenders. He’s a good ballhandler for his size, but man when you’re that tall and the ball has got that far to go from your hand to the floor back to your hand, you’re going to get stripped.

Math is money and money is math

by EATING on Jul 29, 2011 5:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Boozer's D...Boozer's D...Boozer's D

the only reason i started blogging was because i couldn’t stand boozer’s d so much i needed to vent. he was the first jazz player i ever disliked, and that was before all the verbal diarrhea started. watching jazz games became like DWill upset about a perceived no-call. i would get so frustrated about boozer’s lack of d on one end of the floor—the just standing there and stupid fouls that inevitably put the jazz over the limit—that i lost sight of anything that happened on the other.

by moni on Jul 29, 2011 8:05 PM MDT reply actions  

Jerry Sloan's substitution patterns.

I never could figure out why Jerry Sloan would play his scrubs for half the game, and then act surprised that they did not play as well as his star players might have played. Earth to Jerry: Your stars can’t win a game for you, if they are sitting on the bench.

by Fesenko for President on Jul 30, 2011 12:01 AM MDT reply actions  

This principle especially applied to "you always know what you get (namely, nothing)" Jarron Collins.

Greg Ostertag at his worst was always better than Jarron Collins at his best, yet Jerry chose to give minutes to these two players as if just the opposite was true.

by Fesenko for President on Jul 30, 2011 12:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

HERE here

i hated how sloan would sub everyone in and out based on the clock

by Evans Almighty on Jul 30, 2011 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

This Sloan worshipper

completely agrees.

Do I look like someone who would waste my own time?

by SurlyMae on Aug 1, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

worst of all offenses

was continuing to substitute Stockton out of nba finals games like they were regular season games. no Jerry, there were no more games — the margin of victory/defeat in most of those games was within 6 points. playing John an extra 4 mins in the 1st quarter might have made a difference. jerry, you didn’t have to save Stockton up for another 20 games in the next 5 weeks — you could have broken out of your planned rotation a bit. after all, he was checking steve kerr — not having to check jason kidd and steve nash on back to backs anymore.

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Aug 1, 2011 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

I hated Boozer on D alot

But I actually hated him going to the rim soft way more. It seemed like I found myself yelling at the TV more and more ‘Dunk the (insert swear here) ball!!’ There are other members of the Jazz that I felt played soft when going to the basket, AK, Memo, but I just felt Boozer made me swear more than the other ones did.

by hamfist on Jul 30, 2011 12:35 AM MDT reply actions  

Three pointers!

I thought this would have been listed already. We rarely defended against it, and never had an offensive play designed for one. Also, always fouling on defense.

by teancum on Jul 30, 2011 9:34 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Oh

Not really playing the basketball oriented, but why the team was so late on the retro-jersey/different jersey look. If the Bulls could have green uniforms for St. Patty’s Day, why couldn’t the Jazz bust out those old green uniforms? Also, I loved the quick video they would show at the games of Mike Myers from Wayne’s World saying “Like we care” when the opposing team made a free throw. That made it so fun, and that rarely happened.

by teancum on Jul 30, 2011 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

that was more on the defensive scheme sloan put together

Hope Corbin changes it.

"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."

Norm Sloan

"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."

Weldon Drew

by EcERyda69 on Jul 30, 2011 12:32 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Timeouts

Jerry Sloan’s usage of timeouts was absurd. What was he saving them for? Its not like you could cash them in for points at the end of a game. I got sooo sick of watching teams go on 10,12 or 15 point runs while Jerry just stood there slack-jawed on the sidelines.

by Joshua Wood on Jul 30, 2011 10:21 AM MDT reply actions  

he thought they worked like roll over minutes

About me: I used to run AllThatJazzBasketball.Blogspot.com - now you may know me as the Sunday Syncopation guy or the GO Rating guy.You can reach me via e-mail ( allthatjazzbasketball@hotmail.com ) or on teh twitters. Really, I'm not lonely or anything . . .
2010-2011 Season Statistical Reviews (games): 10, 22, 30, 40, 51, 60a 60b, 70a 70b, 82
2010-2011 Season Review (part): 1, 2, 3, 4a 4b, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Jul 30, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Raja Bell's minutes

The Orioles Suck!
Play FESS More!!!
I love men!
HEH!

by bucimislover on Jul 30, 2011 11:42 AM MDT reply actions  

I hated the way Raul Lopez dribbled the ball

lol. I swear he was dribbling the ball so high it was by his head.

by Evans Almighty on Jul 30, 2011 2:55 PM MDT reply actions  

  • People always bitching about Kevin O’Connor – I don’t mind it when people question some of the moves he makes; I do that, too. I just don’t like it when people constantly harp on his draft performance (the draft is, and always has been, a crap-shoot, especially when your team’s pick is in the range the Jazz normally pick in), imply that he somehow does not “try hard enough,” or automatically assume that the Jazz are in play for every big-name free agent.
  • People always bitching about Jerry Sloan – The man’s record speaks for itself. If the worst complaints people can come up with are things such as how he doesn’t manage timeouts well or has strange substitution patterns, then I can live with that as long as the team is winning.
  • Every center the Jazz ever had besides Eaton and Okur – No explanation necessary.
  • Darrell Griffith’s foot injury, followed by his chronic knee problems – The Golden Griff was coming off his best season in the NBA when he fractured his foot, missed the entire ‘85-’86 season, developed chronic knee problems thereafter, and was never quite the same player—although he was still effective, and could still light it up on occasion. I personally believe that, if not for these injury woes, Griff could have been a Hall-of-Famer. The worst part of the whole affair was that, with Griff at less than 100%, the Jazz had to play absolute stiffs like Bobby Hansen, Bart Kofoed, and Jim Farmer at shooting guard.

"Three-pointer from the parking lot...YES! The Golden Griff!"

by Dr. Dunkenstein on Aug 1, 2011 12:11 PM MDT reply actions  

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