In Which Yucca Opines at Great Length - The Downbeat - #666
It's no secret amongst Jazz fans that our team has done well these first thirteen games. It started with some wins against suspect teams, and suddenly crescendoed into big-time wins against the Nuggets and the Clippers. I want to pause and help us understand what kind of feat this beginning has been.
Last April, when there was much discussion amongst us about the team's future, about whether playoffs were realistic for 2012, etc., I decided to look at some NBA history to see what it told. My question was: how probable is it for the fifth-worst team to turn it around and win fifty games one year later (which has been a kind of threshold for Western Conference playoffs for several years now).
What I found was this: not likely. Since 1980, 16 teams improved by 22 wins from one year to the next (I started looking at 25 wins, since the Jazz were on pace for 23-25 wins post-Trade ... but I ended up going down a bit from my initial 25-win-improvement cutoff).
Amongst those 16 teams there were three consistent themes: 1) there was a major roster change in at least one spot, 2) a major player returned after missing at least half the previous season because of injury, and 3) extremely young stars, starting their 3rd-ish season, made a huge leap in overall effectiveness.
Virtually every team that improved so drastically could be attributed to at least one of these causes, and usually at least two of them.
There were a couple unique circumstances: Chris Mullin checked into alcoholism rehabilitation one off-season, got sober, and the Warriors improved by 23 wins (after also adding Mitch Richmond). And the 1996 Bulls didn't technically add Michael Jordan when they went from 47 to 72 wins. But going from rusty, not-quite-in-game-shape Jordan for 17 games to pissed off, work-like-hell-to-get-back-during-the-offseason Jordan was kind of like a change in personnel. Or like coming back from injury.
But aside from those two wrinkles, the story was the same every time: roster change, injured star returns, and/or kids come into their own.
So basically, what our Jazz have done this year to date is pretty damn unprecedented.
Aside from movement in the 2nd-stringers, the roster is pretty much the same as the one that stunk so badly last year. Devin was injured for a bit, but he still played almost 2/3 of the games. Hayward's getting more minutes this year, but has hardly taken The Leap. Favors is getting virtually the same line.
The Jazz don't fit the established story.
So what I'm saying is enjoy it. It's a unique team, a unique turnaround. It may not last another game. It may go on the entire season. It may be the beginning of five years of awesome.
However long it lasts, enjoy it and savor it. It may not happen again to any team for a while.
The major question about the Jazz improvement thus far is: How has it happened? Amar gave you a link to Clint Petersen's piece at Hardwood Paroxysm yesterday, and it was a very good look.
(Yes, I really thought it was good—despite what blew up after I made what was supposed to be a little eye-roll comment about throwing out Al's worst games to make his FG% look better than it is. Really it was a quick comment posted about 5 minutes before school started and intended to be a somewhat exasperated snark, not an angry huff-and-puff—but that's the internet for you.)
Anyway, I wanted to go at this in a different way: let's look at our players' actual numbers and see what they're contributing, box-score wise:
- Millsap's been out of this world. This shouldn't be a surprise to us. There may be ten guys in the NBA who have been better over the first 13 games.
- Al's been slightly worse. (calm down, rabid fans, calm down—I'll give you a total fact-based asterisk below).
- Devin, Raja, and CJ have been dreadful on the whole (though huge improvement over the past three games or so).
- Favors has contributed almost the exact same line as last year. Look it up. And ditto for Earl (though his assists, and blocks (!) have gone up a bit).
- Hayward has a much bigger role, and he's filled it very inconsistently. Josh Howard, the new guy we've all fawned over as being the second or third most consistent guy after Millsap, is perfectly average. Seriously, his PER is 15. He is a downgrade over the guy he partially replaced: AK.
- Burks and Kanter have had nice moments (and Kanter rebounds the hell out of the ball), but they also only play 12 and 14 minutes per game. The most we can say at this point is they are out-contributing Ronnie P. and Fes of last year.
That's where the team is at. One guy substantially better, two guys filling minor roles better than last year's scrubs, and everyone either a wash, slightly worse, or significantly worse.
So how are they better? How have they been successful during the past 11 games?
And we know the answer already: defense—About 88 ppg allowed from games 3-13.
What strikes me is that you can't pin this defense on any one guy. Every now and then someone finds a hole in the Jazz interior and you see Al's just as slow and non-explosive as ever. Someone posts up Millsap and you realize that no, he hasn't grown 6 inches over the summer. Hayward's physically outmatched by most SF's. I could go on. There have definitely been a few great moments by everyone, but nobody's been exactly a defensive beast to this point.
And it's not the much ballyhooed change to push guys to the baseline. Everybody does that—the good and the bad defensive teams.
No, it's about individual defensive effort nor about the scheme. It's work, persistence, and dedication to team defense by everybody. Two recent moments show me exactly how this has been accomplished.
- Against the Lakers there were several sequences that Millsap just manhandled Pau. Think about that: Pau has Sap outmatched physically in just about every way. And Millsap was pestering him the entire night, pushing him out of the box, snapping after every opening to the ball, knocking him over a couple times.
- I don't have Synergy, so the details are hazy and I can't relive the moment yet. But it was against the Clippers, early 3rd quarter. A guard got past the perimeter on the baseline. It should have been an easy path to the hoop, but the help post D suddenly appeared in the form of Hayward (of all people). The other guys (Al, Millsap, and Raja if I remember right) suddenly all shifted about three steps each, going into kind of a mini-zone that both cut off any great passes to open guys and repositioned themselves to within four feet of everyone—even the Hayward's guy. Last year Hayward's man would have had a wide open shot. In this sequence there was nothing.
That's what the Jazz are doing. Pestering everyone and attentively, intelligently helping each other in ways that work with what each player can realistically do. They're not relying on Al to dance on air like the second coming of Hakeem. They're not demanding Hayward to replace AK's magic. They are figuring out how to make everything work with the things they CAN do well, as long as everyone works and dedicates themselves to it.
Diana, Clint, and David J. Smith got to sit courtside with Greg Miller. It looked like a blast. But do you know what I'd give anything to see: a practice in which they work at their defense.
My favorite Millsap factoid, from ESPN listing five underrated players: Paul is out-rebounding 21 starting centers. Sadly, it isn't mentioned that Millsap accomplishes this in only 29 minutes per game.
*Two PSA's to anyone going to read the article at ESPN: 1- to anyone longing for Kyle Lowry, it's clear Houston would have to be brain-dead to trade him, and 2) if you still pine for Wesley Matthews during those lonely evenings, this article won't help.
One thing the Jazz could still improve is free throw shooting. They rank 22nd in the league at .728. That rate has also increased dramatically over the past couple of games. Among the offenders for bad FT shooting are: Millsap (worst rate since '08), Al (second worst since '08), Devin (worst since '06), Favors (worse than last year), Kanter (68%).
Even guys who aren't in the running for personal worst FT% ever aren't exactly tearing it up (Hayward, Earl, CJ, Burks).
Only three guys are pulling off better than 75%: Cj, Raja (4-4), and Josh Howard. In fact, without Josh the team is shooting 70%. That would be third worst in the league (i.e. worse than Cleveland). So let us all thank Josh for this.
I once commented that it seems like the Jazz go 1-2 at the line more often than they go 2-2. So, being a bit of a masochist, I decided to go through every single game's play-by-play and see if the hunch is right.
Sadly, no. The team has gone 1-2 sixty-four times. They have pulled off 2-2 seventy-three times. Other fun FT factoids:
- 0-1 twelve times vs. 1-1 eighteen times
- 0-2 six times.
- A single set of three free throws: CJ went 2-3.
According to my tally marks, the worst games were Milwaukee (0-1 once, 1-2 nine times, 1-1 three times, 2-2 twice) and Memphis (0-1 once, 1-2 ten times, 2-2 four times).
And I can't tell you how aggravating Josh Howard was during this tallying exercise. Every now and then I'd be mid-third quarter, getting this rush of adrenaline wondering if the Jazz really could go an entire game without going 2-2 from the line a single time. Josh spoiled it every time.
In the Clippers game thread there was some disappointment among some late-comers that they didn't get to see the 4th quarter Clippers carnage, and SportsCenter (of course) wasn't playing the highlights. Well, fret no more. NBA247365 put together a highlight video just for you.
Enjoy (even if Tinsley did travel):
My promised Al postscript after the jump
Al's line this year compared to last year:
- Lower FG% (but more shots), lower FT%, fewer FT's, lower rebound rate, higher turnover rate
- Same assist rate, same block rate, higher steal rate
Put it all together, and it's slightly worse than last year. Before anyone throws their hands in the air and calls for my head, remember—the point is that it's NOT the regular box score stuff that's making the Jazz better.
And do you want to know what HAS improved? His defensive rating: from allowing 1.07 points per possession to 0.97. That's a ridiculously huge improvement.
And do you know what else? Virtually every player who is both a major contributor now and was also last year has about the same kind of improvement: Millsap, Hayward, Devin, Raja, Favors, Earl. It's an across-the-board 10% improvement.
The team defense has been phenomenal. Everyone has bought in, everyone is giving every effort. And I'd say Al, MIllsap, and Raja are the leaders in the crusade.
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One concern about the defense – as was the case early last year – is that opposing teams are shooting an abnormally low 3pt% against the Jazz, and it’s not necessarily just because of our defense. Yes, it’s improved, but they are missing shots they should make, too.
Mitigating factor could be free throws. If other teams start hitting their threes, but the Jazz start hitting their free throws, they may somewhat cancel out.
I’d also like to note that when the Jazz beat the Clippers, you heard the excuses that Chris Paul was injured. That same Clippers team beat the defending champs without Chris Paul…
They were also missing Mo Williams
And he had a monster game against the Mavs
by Pasta_Champion on Jan 19, 2012 9:11 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
" Every now and then someone finds a hole in the Jazz interior and you see Al's just as slow and non-explosive as ever."
Have you watched the Jazz this year? What the heck man? I know he isn’t shooting great (he is just like the rest of the NBA in that regard) but come on. This has to be the most the most inaccurate assessment in history of the Downbeat. Everyone I talk to, everyone that I have watched a game with, even the national guys and talking heads have pointed out how much better all is moving. He is never going to be DAJ with explosiveness, but good heck the guy is superman compared to last year.
I know you don’t like the guy and try to take shots at him whenever possible, but to make that comment about the one are that it is so clear he is better in is just plain silly.
Plus you talk about that his box score numbers are poor and go on to show things like rebounding rate, Turnover rate, Etc. that don’t show up in the box score. What is that all about? If you are going to point to box score numbers than point to them, but if you are going to point out numbers that aren’t in the box score than how about how his PER is higher than last year. Let’s point our how he is actually scoring more per minute and rebounding more per minute than last year. Let’s point out that while his turnover rate is slightly higher than his league best from last year, it would also have ranked him second behind only himself from a year ago. So it isn’t like he is suddenly George McGinnis with the ball.
So Al hasn’t shot as well and still can improve, but don’t act like he is playing worse and don’t make off the wall comments because you don’t like him. Lastly, please find a new punching bag, preferably someone not on our team.
by BobbyD31 on Jan 19, 2012 9:20 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I would agree here with Al being better this year
And you don’t need stats to back it up. (I’ll let others go into a stats war.) You can just tell. Maybe it’s because he’s another year removed from his knee injury. Maybe because the team is playing so much better. But Big Al just seems different.
To back up Yucca a little bit though, although it might have seemed like a shot at Al, he did write “every now and then” and not “every time”. He acknowledges that, while there are moments, Al has improved on the defensive end.
Good Downbeat either way.
I think Al's looking pretty spry myself
which I would assume is the result of his summer busting his tail at P3. I’d imagine he’s still getting used to some of the things he can and can’t do, which is why you sometimes see him like the old Al. It can take some time for the mind to catch up with the body.
-Jason
Both Millsap and Al
Probably deserve All-Star bids this year. Probably neither makes it, but I’d consider it a win if at least one of em did.
Think I’m gonna have to go inside the stats to see just how dominant Sap has been against his “All-Star” opposition of late.
Good stuff, Yucca.
It is a detriment to their chances that they are both worthy of bids.
It’s like when 2 teammates are worthy of the Heisman. It usually ends up that neither one gets it.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
More like Leinart & Mike Williams and Adrian Peterson & Jason White.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
If sap doesnt make the All Star team it doesnt matter. Yao Ming would probably get more votes than Sap, and he's retired
Are the 2012 US Olympic team roster final? Sap is way more rounded player than the PF’s they probably got on the roster
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
The final invites are final. If that's what you mean.
It’s something like 20 invites to make the roster of 12. Not sure of the exact numbers.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
nice writeup
Just last night i was remembering your claim that we couldn’t expect too much of this team based on prior teams, and our dreadful record after the Sloan and D-Will situations… i’m glad this team is proving history and all of us wrong. I really hope we can keep this up. Go Jazz!!
Following the Utah Jazz from the bottom of South America!
by Jazzfan_in_Chile on Jan 19, 2012 9:36 AM MST reply actions
The AK sentimentality rubs me the wrong way at this point.
Contract negotiations aside, I’d argue that ’AK’s replacement’ has been more of a combination of Hayward and Howard.
I loved AK’s transition game and passing, but his weakside defensive prowess was waning along with his athleticism.
Howard and AK are both inconsistent jump shooters.
And Howard scores from so many different areas of the floor, that weren’t in AK’s game. His floating runner, slashing ability, moves off the dribble are such an upgrade from AK. He plays with more visible and infectious intensity. And his game benefits from a young quazi-structured offensive scheme. His past chemistry with Devin Harris is also grossly underrated. He has playoff experience. And his ability to get to the rim, in part, helped turn around what was a very stagnate offense at the beginning of the season(granted Milsap was injured).
So I think it is fair of you to use the word ‘magic’ with regards to AK’s game.
The word ‘downgrade’ is pretty biased though.
However, all is forgiven any time you reference Chris Mullin’s alcoholism.
Are you guessing or is this substantiated somewhere?
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
I think he meant about AK's range
Which was about 9-10M a year if I remember correctly. So more like a fourth of AK’s asking price.
Right, I just hadn't seen a solid # for Howard's salary anywhere.
HoopsHype’s salary section has Howard and Watson’s left blank.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
A player's contributions, as far as analysis goes, are pretty independent of paychecks
It doesn’t matter if Howard’s making $50 million or $50,000 —if Howard’s actually contributing more, then the team should be better. If Howard’s contributing less, the team should be worse.
Statistically Howard and Hayward are contributing a lot less than we got from SF last year. Yet the team is better. You can say the same about virtually every spot. Yet the team is better.
That’s the mystery, and that’s what this post is looking into—stuff not measured by individual players’ stats and what kind of effect they have had on the team’s success.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
I think that's a fair assessment.
However, I think as a sports fan you do place value in monetary terms. I haven’t dug it up, but wasn’t there a post this summer on that exact thing? How Millsap was the only Jazz player that out earned his paycheck?
But really, don’t you expect more out of Kobe Bryant at $25 Million than you do Ron Artest Metta World Peace at the MLE. The combo of Howard and Hayward is making half of what AK made last year, are we getting half the production?
I like what you wrote Yucca, and I appreciate your point, but I think its only human to expect less out of a $2 burger than a $10 one.
Nicely stated. Especially the half of AK part.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
AK's PER last year: 16.6
Howard’s: 15. Hayward’s: 12.5
That’s a statistical downgrade. There’s no other way to spin it. Howard’s shooting 40% from the field, 18% from three, rebounding less, assisting a lot less, blocking less, stealing less, etc., etc., etc. There’s not a single way, as far as individual stats go, Howard is anything but worse than AK was last year. You can say the same about Hayward (a guy who happens to be my favorite player on the team right now). He’s not doing anything statistically better than AK did last year, and almost everything statistically worse (assists being the major exception).
And that’s the point of this downbeat. Aside from Millsap, individual players’ stats say the team should be no better. So the reason the team has performed ridiculously better has to be found by looking at other things.
I happened to focus on the huge effect of the team’s defensive efforts. Defensive efforts not really found by examining individual player’s stats, but by focusing on how they are working together defensively as an entire team.
That to me is the real story.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
So AK has a higher PER so a lower PER is a down grade, Big Al's PER is up and he
is playing worse than last year?
Here is the part of the truth to the stats this year. They are down across the league. Look at shooting Percentages. Last year The NBA average was 45.9% shooting. This year it is 44.2%. Last year there were only 4 teams in the entire NBA that shot below what is now the league average. 3Pt pecentages are down from 35.8% to 33.9%. FTS are down from 76.3% to 74.4%. Scoring is down from 99.6 PPG to 94.5 PPG. So it isn’t something weird going on with the Jazz.
The whole league isn’t as good on offense because of the lock-out, short training camp, and squeezed schedule. So let’s not be shocked that guys on our team aren’t shooting as well and putting up as good of numbers, because that is the case for pretty much the entire league.
I'm really not sure why you seem so angry
All I’m saying is that the players’ individual stats are not telling the story about why the Jazz are so much better. That goes for my favorite player (Hayward) and your favorite player.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Not angry just pointing out that there is a trend in the whole league.
I thought everyone knew that the big reason stats are done on the Jazz is that they are down around the entire NBA. Nobody was pointing it out and their were a lot of questions to why the numbers were down and we are still winning. Well I was just saying if you compare to last year we are way down, but if you look at our numbers compared to the rest of the league this year, we are a little better.
I was also just poking fun at the way you were saying Al’s having a worse year and you mention everything that is down and exclude his PER, yet you turned around and used AK’s PER. It seemed like a double standard, but I was just messing with you.
On a side note Hayward is my favorite too, so we agree on something.
I like the Per stat.
AK only played in 64 games last year, and averaged 12 pts 5 rbs and 3 asts a game. I think Josh Howard can attain those numbers pretty easily.
AK has also had years when he only shot 21% from 3 pt range. (06-07 regular season).
Josh Howard shot 43% from 3 pt range the year before.(05-06 regular season).
I mean Josh Howard put up 21 and 10 in the playoffs.
AK’s best playoff output was 12 and 5 (rounding up and combining career bests from separate years).
If this year’s team is a statistical anomaly, it just seems inaccurate to use the term ‘downgrade’, with regards to a player based on a PER 13 games into the season.
Loving the discussion caused by the downbeat! Thanks, Yucca!
From watching the highlight reel, I love our backup point guards! How about having a non-superstar starting PG to leave enough minutes for a high-quality backup. I say we may be in a better position during an injury-laden, lockout-shortened season having the two-headed beast of Harris/Watson (just look at the Clippers).
Other than Millsap being a beast, I think our depth/bench play has been the biggest key to our success this season.
Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it.
-Unknown
by Rog. on Jan 19, 2012 11:07 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
1 – can’t really categorize the Jazz with past instances because there hasn’t been any team in the past that had to go through the same experiences as the Jazz did.
2 – stats don’t tell the whole story. There’s a mental aspect to the game. Team chemistry will trump talent any day. The Mavs proved that in last years championship game. Josh Howard’s contribution to the team is only realized by watching how he plays rather than just looking at his stats. The reason the Jazz are playing so well offensively (average of 24 team assists the last 5 games) and defensively is that they’re building team chemistry. Everyone is helping each other out. In team sports, individual stats really don’t matter because what wins it for team sports is team play.
From Brian T. Smith of the Tribune:
Asked about Utah’s lack of a superstar player, Millsap said the Jazz don’t need one.
“We’re a team,” he said.
4 – I agree with you. If the Jazz want to be an elite team, they need to make their free throws.
Actually, talent trumps chemistry often
As for number two: that’s kind of the point. The stats, in the Jazz case right now, individual player stats tell almost nothing of the story … except except that Millsap has been kicking everyone’s butt.
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
Agree with the overrall theme of the DB.
No one player is getting it done on the defensive end. It is a team effort, and I fee like all that credit should go to Corbin and his staff. For quite a few years now we heard that the Jazz would always bring it on the defensive end, when they really wouldn’t. Their reputation was getting the benefits of being a traditionally a good defensive unit under Sloan. But this year is totally different. They are playing much better team defense.
+1 on Corbin
Count me as one of the jerks who rushed to judgment on Corbin. What if he’s a defensive genius?
I'll make it coach.
I was one of those jerks
and I was wrong.
Me too. Definitely didn't see Raja Bell turning it around.
Major props to Corbin and sheepishness to me.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
Yo Yucca
We both need to get access to practice: you can watch the D, I’d give body parts to watch the run-throughs of the baseline inbounds and some of the flex option plays.
Seriously: my ultimate fan memorabilia isn’t a game-worn jersey or shoes (!!!) but a copy of a real NBA playbook, especially one of ours
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
While I'm here:
Another thought on Al, those times when he ‘looks’ slow in D:
Perhaps his brain hasn’t caught up with his newly-chiseled body. He might not realise that he’s now quick enough to make the rotation/adjustment.
I suggest this because I’m the reverse: on-court my mind still thinks I’m 22, but I’m 36, with the lower body of an octogenarian, so I try and do things I’m incapable of.
Possibly the southernmost Jazz fan in the world!
Twitter: @Texas
Our improvement isn't just all about Defense. It's our depth too!
One thing the compressed schedule does reward is depth. Our second unit is young and energetic except for Earl, who’s just energetic.
The compressed schedule was supposed to favor the veteran teams early on since they should be on the same page and don’t need a training camp and pre-season. Then late in the compressed schedule season it was supposed to favor the young teams with depth.
Credit also goes to Jazz Brass for getting guys to P3 and having them show up in shape.
#4 Free throw shooting. Yucca, thanks for taking one for the team. You are a Masochist.
I was wondering the same thing. Hayward should shoot A LOT better at the line. Perhaps it’s a sophomore slump?
#4 Hayward's confidence
I posted this in another thread but yea Hayward is not shooting FT’s up to his potential. At Butler he shot 82% from the line..and in the NBA he’s now at %72. Maybe it’s his new muscles that are screwing up his rhythm, but he really doesn’t look very confidant at the line. Maybe I’m just mixing him up with Korver in my head and expecting him to make just about everything.
Agree 100%
Hayward’s confidence is limiting his scoring. Hornacek said that he passes up 5 or 6 good shots per game. He might not be confident with his shot right now but that hasn’t limited the rest of his game. I feel like he is playing smart basketball and that he’s doing everything right (outside of shooting). When his confidence comes back around and he starts hitting 47% of his threes, he’ll be playing at a level above where he was at the end of last season.
by Robert_Loblaw on Jan 19, 2012 5:18 PM MST up reply actions
I definitely think it's a mental/confidence issue as well.
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Starting to realize that BBJ'S greatest talent
was probably brevity.
by tyrantking on Jan 19, 2012 5:24 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Brevity and his ability to not piss off the site's most ardent fans
I got the crap beat out of me in Provo one time
LOL!
I was just mentioning to a coworker this morning that BBJ’s Downbeat always seemed to be a non-biased, non-opinionated rundown of the state of Jazz basketball, whether it was news on current players, former players, combinations of players, stats, trends, whatever. It always seemed to be presented without an apparent agenda. He had a knack for it that I didn’t really appreciate at the time, but now realize wasn’t easy at all.
I have faith that either you guys will eventually get more neutral in the DBs or that we’ll all get used to it presenting a particular viewpoint and agreeing or disagreeing in the comments. It’s just different than it used to be, and acceptance of change takes time.
I am in no way affiliated with the blog of the same name.
by JazzHype on Jan 19, 2012 6:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs

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