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The Garbage Time vs. No Playing Time Conundrum Edition - The Downbeat - # 682

The Jazz's 3-point woes (both making and defending) have been documented and highlighted in recent losses. Ty Corbin has said that he's not a real big fan of the 3-point shot, but I think many of us were probably surprised to hear of the Jazz's new signing--DeMarre Carroll--and find out that he's not a shooter.

Earl Watson on KALL:

[Denver] emphasize taking a lot of 3s, they emphasize shooting the ball, they emphasize and encourage from long range. That's not our style of play, nor should it be. But I think we have to find a balance, because we have so many talented bigs and we have guys on the team now that's capable of being really, really good 3-pointer shooters. ...

I was reading where we are Top 5 field goal percentage offense, but we shoot the ball so poorly from the 3-pointer. But that's not really what we emphasize. We attack the paint; we go through our bigs.

When you think of all the guys the Jazz have let go of over the past few years--Kyle Korver, Wesley Matthews, Deron Williams, Mehmet Okur--your head starts to hurt. It seems like our most pressing roster need for years has been a reliable shooter.

I realize that you can't do something just because everyone else is, but when you consider the current state and direction of the NBA, should the Jazz give the three-point shot more emphasis in their offense (assuming, of course, that we have guys that can make them)?

Ty Corbin on Eric Brooks (Alec Burks)' lack of playing time (KALL):

He understand that I want to get him quality minutes on the floor, and because of where we are now and the way things are going, it's my fault. I just haven't had a chance to find minutes for him. I talked to him about staying ready, and he'll continue to work as much as he can in the time off and the time we have on the practice floor to continue to get better.

Burks' development is something I've been thinking about lately. One of the areas where he can improve is shot selection/frequency. If he's only getting garbage minutes on the rare occasion that he does gets minutes, those tendencies could get worse because what is there to do during garbage time but shoot? In other words, is playing garbage time more detrimental to his development than no playing time at all?

Some of my favorite Jazz moments are when you get to see players' personalities, and they shine through in this Jazzland post by the Deseret News' Jody Genessy:

Watson to Evans: "You want me to talk for you?"

Watson to me: "I'm his dunk agent."

Watson then talked about the viral campaign of Evans' video that showed him dunking over the 6-1 guard. "Bang. And we're pushing it—Twitter, Facebook."

Evans interrupting: "Everything, you name it."

Watson talking over Evans: "Website."

Evans interjecting again: "Photo Bucket."

Watson: "We sending out text message pictures."

Evans: "I've been on Photo Bucket."

Watson: "We’ve got G-Time putting it up on Butler highlights on the JumboTron at Butler."

Evans: "Even D-Fav's Georgia Tech. We've got all that."

There's a lot more, so be sure to click on the link above and put Jazzland in your RSS reader if you haven't already.

You know what amazes me when I think of how hard it's been for Jazz players to get All-Star recognition in recent years? How many years Karl Malone and John Stockton made the All-Star Game and started in the All-Star Game "despite" playing in Utah. Did they dominate their positions that much, or was it just a different era? Thanks to @prodigyJF, here's a Karl and John All-Star 1988-1997 All-Star mix:

Poll
Unintentional Dirty Quote Machine (UDQM) of the Week
David James: You can just one night go with one guy, the next night go with another, rather than taking multiple guys in and out. Or you decide early on, I’m gonna go with Kanter down the stretch, so maybe I need to give him a blow at the 7-minute mark.
93 votes
Harpring on CJ: He just thinks he has to do something with the ball every time he touches it.
8 votes
Boler: There is a little Houdini inside Jeremy Lin.
11 votes
Harpring: Raja is angry with himself he didn't finish that.
5 votes

117 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 27 comments  |  Add comment  |  0 recs  | 

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Super Bowl UDQM

I noted one of the announcers saying something about “Jamming the tight end” during the Super Bowl. Just thought I’d share.

by flibbidy on Feb 10, 2012 7:39 AM MST reply actions  

3 pointers

yes we need to make it easier in our offense for guys to make threes. I wonder if they even have plays for threes or if its still like when Horny was a player an him an John just had to wing it or D-Will and Korver/Memo the same thing. If that is the case it makes complete sense that we are dead last in 3 point percentage, we don’t have any guys that can just wing it like John and Deron to set up plays. We have Harris who’s move is to run into the paint, an we have Watson (who I love) who is good at setting up our offense but besides his alley-oop passes (which I love) doesn’t ever really wing it.
I don’t want to be a Warrior team but like our buddy Earl said there needs to be that balance.

by dianaallen on Feb 10, 2012 8:34 AM MST reply actions  

3

My impression of Burks is that he plays kind of out of control for the first couple minutes he gets in, then calms down and starts doing a lot better.

I’d so love to see him getting 20 minutes a night right now.

Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com

by Yucca Man on Feb 10, 2012 8:45 AM MST reply actions  

Great downbeat Moni!

1-We are better as a team offensively if we have a “maker” from the outside as it opens up the paint (see John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek, Memo Okur, Kyle Korver, Deron Williams, etc). I’ve heard complaints about how Howard and CJ are ball hogs and just drive/take shots every time they touch the ball; I agree, but this is a coaching thing – I guarantee that they wouldn’t be doing what they are doing if the coaches didn’t want them to (i.e. I’m pretty sure the coaches are asking them to be aggressive every chance they get; just wish they would mix in a little basketball IQ). Now for some euphemisms: you can’t be one dimensional in this league; each night you need to find a way to win.
2-Disappointing. Corbin knows he needs to get Alec minutes and isn’t finding a way to do it.
3-Jeremy needs to dunk.
4-Malone made his first all star game in 1988 (he averaged 27 points per game that year he was drafted in 1985); Stockton made his first all star game in 1989 (he averaged 17.1 pts on .538 shooting and 13.6 assists that year; he was drafted in 1984); so yes, they were doing some pretty amazing things, but they also had been in the league a few years before going too; I’m pretty sure if we had players putting up those type of stats, they’d get some all-star burn

by pacoelcid on Feb 10, 2012 8:45 AM MST reply actions  

I'm loving the alternating DB authors!

Great way to mix up the style and topics everyday.

1. We need a consistant 3 pt threat to open up the paint for our bigs, since they are definatley our strength. Not a live by the three die by the three team, but I’d like us to be in the middle of the pack when it comes to attempts and makes.

2. Burks needs meaningful minutes. As you said, in garbage time, its all offense and chucking shots. As I said in another thread, look at how much Kanter has grown from getting consistant, meaningful minutes. He looked a lot more raw than Burks at the begining of the season, but now he is a very solid contributor of the bench. I’d like Burks to get around the same playing time so he can work on slowing his game down and operating within the offense.

3. We got snubbed in the Rookie Soph challenge, so the NBA needs to make up for it and let Jeremy dunk! Besides, we all know he’d throw down some sick dunks in the contest.

Utah>*

by Bebop on Feb 10, 2012 9:13 AM MST reply actions  

Kanter is the rookies need PT posterchild

If a guy has good attitude, work ethic, and genuine talent, playing time will facilitate the development exponentially.

Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com

by Yucca Man on Feb 10, 2012 9:45 AM MST up reply actions  

It's just confusing that Howard, who has consistantly been not producing

since he came back from that injury, continues to get playing time over Burks. He’s only here for a year, whereas we have Burks on lock for 3. If we’re getting blown out and losing anyways, play the guy thats going to be here longer!

Utah>*

by Bebop on Feb 10, 2012 10:16 AM MST up reply actions  

4. That was great.

I also really like how Stockton hit Hornacek for a layup in the 1992 game. I also liked the years when the All stars wore their own uniforms. I like that a lot better than some of the ugly uniforms they have come up with for All Star weekend.

by BobbyD31 on Feb 10, 2012 9:28 AM MST reply actions  

1. If you rebound significantly better than the other team, you will have more shots to take. So that’s another way of scoring more points rather than shooting 3s. If our team has lots of “bigs” than it follows that we ought to be rebounding significantly better than our opponents. If we aren’t, then our coaches need to address that in a significant way. If you aren’t going to shoot a lot of 3s, then you need to get a lot more rebounds to make up the difference. You have to be strong at one or the other.

2. @Ty – you haven’t had a chance to find minutes for him? What, are you busy doing something else?

3. Not unlike the dialogue in Of Mice and Men. (That reference is for you, Yucca Man!)

4. holy crap – what if Karl Malone had played his career with Magic Johnson? (I will now answer my own question.) More oops and fast break dunks, fewer pick and roll points.

So Karl Malone was basically Blake Griffin 20 years ago, right? Will Blake Griffin work as hard as Malone to develop a 20 foot game? (I hope so.)

5. David James quote killed me. I’m an English teacher. I can find a euphemism no matter how deeply it’s buried in a hole. So nice when James gives it up so easily.

I'll make it coach.

by MTN on Feb 10, 2012 10:25 AM MST reply actions  

Ah ... awesome literary allusions for the win

The David James quote may end up the UDQM of the year.

Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com

by Yucca Man on Feb 10, 2012 10:33 AM MST up reply actions  

  1. — Mo Almond only got garbage time and he was the most talented guy on the floor then (on offense) and thus felt the need to shoot it all the time. And he did. And when he played in the NBA-DL that was the same situation. He never learned to Jazz offense, and never got the mentality to play with guys as a Jazz team mate. It was always team Mobe. And those bad habits were only encouraged by when we played him. And then he was useless to us.

What are we doing with Burks? When he plays mins in the first half (2nd quarter) and plays with a mix of guys (some starters some not) he works way better. When you put him in garbage time he may feel pressured to score — but that’s what scorers want to do. He got to the league by slashing and getting to the line. It is against his nature to try to do otherwise when pressured.

ONe thing we can agree on is that, right now, the Jazz haven’t played him as much as we hoped he would have played by now.

  1. — Look at how hard Karl runs during an exhibition game? Damn. If Enes or Favors ever do that they’ll get a lot of points.

Jazz fan who lives in Detroit. Stats guy. Photoshop novice. Likes to make the pass to the guy who gets the assist. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Get at me:
Twitter Handles: @AllThatAmar -- @AllThatAmar2 (for when I am in Twitter Jail)
Email: allthatamar [at] gmail.com
Stuff I write: Old Jazz Blog - SLCDUNK - Other Stuff

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Feb 10, 2012 10:28 AM MST reply actions  

love how the number formatting jacked up there

It was Number 2, and Number 4

Jazz fan who lives in Detroit. Stats guy. Photoshop novice. Likes to make the pass to the guy who gets the assist. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Get at me:
Twitter Handles: @AllThatAmar -- @AllThatAmar2 (for when I am in Twitter Jail)
Email: allthatamar [at] gmail.com
Stuff I write: Old Jazz Blog - SLCDUNK - Other Stuff

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Feb 10, 2012 10:28 AM MST up reply actions  

We need 3-point shooting

It doesn’t matter that the Jazz don´t encourage 3-pointers. Logic says that you need good shooters because if you don´t have them, opponents will collapse and pack the paint, making our bigs and guard penetration much less effective. You need shooters to prevent them from doing that and maximize the team´s strength, which is inside attack.

by AirPascual on Feb 10, 2012 10:48 AM MST reply actions  

3 point shooting

It’s the final piece this team needs to be a playoff team. When you are a top 5 team in points in the paint without an outside threat that says a lot about what this team is capable of. You give the big some spacing to operate down low they can score more efficiently without having to deal with a packed paint. It would also solve the problem for the second unit when they need to break a zone down.

"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."

Norm Sloan

"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."

Weldon Drew

by EcERyda69 on Feb 10, 2012 10:58 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Remember when we had Korver?

how many years ago was that?

I'll make it coach.

by MTN on Feb 10, 2012 2:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Even if you don't TAKE threes

having guys out there who are THREATS to MAKE threes on the floor means the other team has to respect your floor spacing.

But whatever, we’ll probably trade any three point shooting guy we have to the nets for a trade exemption that’ll expire in 2 years. KOC = genius.

Jazz fan who lives in Detroit. Stats guy. Photoshop novice. Likes to make the pass to the guy who gets the assist. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Get at me:
Twitter Handles: @AllThatAmar -- @AllThatAmar2 (for when I am in Twitter Jail)
Email: allthatamar [at] gmail.com
Stuff I write: Old Jazz Blog - SLCDUNK - Other Stuff

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Feb 10, 2012 11:39 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

KOC has done a horrible job at getting reliable 3 point threats. The Jazz need to be among the top 10 in three point pct, and the bottom 10 in 3 point attempts. Corbin and Watson are right in thinking the Jazz are fine without taking many threes, but they’re very wrong in thinking they don’t need players who can make the few ones they take.

by AirPascual on Feb 10, 2012 11:54 AM MST up reply actions  

I wouldnt say hes done a horrible job

It’s more about the players making the shot than it is about not having a 3 point shooter.

Hayward had his shot going towards the end of last season. CJ I don’t know what the he’ll happened to him, but his numbers are down thus season. It’s kind of bad when Raja is the only one making them. Our young guys have got to get better at shooting them

"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."

Norm Sloan

"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."

Weldon Drew

by EcERyda69 on Feb 10, 2012 11:59 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe not horrible, but still bad.

Hayward was looking like a real 3pt threat last season, and I still think he can be that again if he gets his confidence back, but It was unwise to rely so much on a sophomore who only got real PT for about 40% of last season. CJ has never been a consistent shooter, and Raja was anything but reliable last season. KOC traded Memo(and he hasn’t been good in NJ anyway), signed Josh Howard and drafted Kanter to be the 4th member of our big man logjam and Burks, who can’t shoot well from long-range to sit on the bench. He could have looked for a 3pt specialist in free agency or drafted players who could at least be moderately effective from behind the arc, but he didn’t do any of those things.

by AirPascual on Feb 10, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions  

He did decent accumulating them

Memo, Korver, Deron, Wesley

He just let them go/got rid of them.

Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com

by Yucca Man on Feb 10, 2012 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

He did.

I’m referring specifically to the past year and a half or so.

He let those players go, and in at least 2 of those 4 cases, it was a mistake. He had chances to replace some of the shooting they used to provide, though, and he didn’t take advantage of those.

by AirPascual on Feb 10, 2012 12:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Do they really respect it?

It’s hard to respect a team that’s dead last in 3 point shooting.

"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."

Norm Sloan

"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."

Weldon Drew

by EcERyda69 on Feb 10, 2012 11:54 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

they respected it when we had D-Will, Korver, Memo

not so much this year.

Jazz fan who lives in Detroit. Stats guy. Photoshop novice. Likes to make the pass to the guy who gets the assist. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Get at me:
Twitter Handles: @AllThatAmar -- @AllThatAmar2 (for when I am in Twitter Jail)
Email: allthatamar [at] gmail.com
Stuff I write: Old Jazz Blog - SLCDUNK - Other Stuff

by AllThatJazzBasketball on Feb 10, 2012 12:00 PM MST up reply actions  

watching that allstar video

it amazed me at how good karl malone was in fast breaks, every time there was one he was already down the court before stockton at a full sprint, and really how many one on one defenders coulds stop that freight train

by gubihero on Feb 10, 2012 11:50 AM MST reply actions  

John and Karl

I don’t think it was a different era when it comes to the attention Utah gets. I think they were both, without question, the best players in their position for about 11 years, and their dominance made it impossible for fans and coaches not to vote for them.

by AirPascual on Feb 10, 2012 11:57 AM MST reply actions  


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