Gandalf enlists Bilbo Baggins - The Downbeat - # 681
by Yucca Man on Feb 9, 2012 9:00 AM MST
in Features - Downbeats
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PrintNote: no wild dream this week. Sorry. My dreams have just been non-basketball related and kind of boring.
And so the Jazz roster now stands at 14. If you missed the news, the Jazz signed FA DeMarre Carroll. He's a 6-8 Forward, most recently out of Denver (four games played this season). He's taken six shots this year and made them all. He's a career 41% shooter, but he does not shoot threes. Except for the rebounding, he seems like kind of an extremely poor man's Kenneth Faried.
Thus far in his career, his best performance was his second game in the league: 12 points, 7 rebounds, 3 steals, and 5 fouls in 32 minutes against the Toronto Raptors.
Why the Jazz signed him is a bit of a mystery—especially since they already have 3 decent players that have a hard time getting playing time.
Some started thinking trade conspiracies as soon as he was signed. Or maybe it's because the Jazz liked his hustle. Perhaps they wanted to have two 7-man teams for inter-squad scrimmages. Me?
I believe the Dwarves felt uncomfortable going after a dragon with a party of 13, and Gandalf had to get creative to get a luckier number. Now can he find a magic ring to: 1) save our butts and 2) bring on an apocalyptic war 60 years after we win back Esgaroth?
Many moons ago, when the Jazz sat at 6-3 after five straight wins (four of which were against suspect teams), I wrote that the next 15 games would be a sample better representative of the NBA: some bad teams, some mediocre teams, and some good teams. How did the Jazz do? They went 7-8. Considering they still had a fairly easy schedule in terms of home vs. away games, that has to be disappointing.
And now the schedule gets harder.
People are starting to notice our young guys—and not only that we have several of them. Hayward has been chosen for the rookie/sophomore game. He's excited, but in classic Hayward form can't help but defer some of the honor to his teammates:
Sebastian Pruiti (the former NBAPlaybook.com guy who now writes for Grantland) has released an updated rookie rankings, and our own Enes Kanter makes his number 3 spot. This is awesome, because Kanter doesn't just get a write-up—when you're in the top 5 you get an NBAPlaybook.com-style video to go with you.
Here's a bit of what Pruiti has to say:
Kanter has done a very good job of moving without the ball. When his teammates drive into the lane, he finds space around the rim, catches the ball, and finishes in traffic. Kanter scores 1.192 points per possession while cutting away from the ball, and this puts him in the top 50 percent of NBA players.
I think most of us have been pleasantly surprised at how quickly Kanter is developing.
True Hoops just launched a new blog that I think could be filled with brilliant stuff. It's called HoopIdea, and it's dedicated to rule/system changes that could be made to make NBA basketball better. Here's its basic thesis:
We want a purer form of basketball. When you play a pickup game, the game flows continuously. No one is trying to get the other team in foul trouble. No one calls a timeout. Defenders don’t worry about the restricted area, or try to take charges. No way. Players try to make plays.
That’s what we want to see: Players making plays. Great passes. Superior teamwork. Spectacular action. Strong defense. Fantastic shots. Amazing dunks. Great basketball, all the time.
Some of the suggestions in the comments are predictably gimmicky and idiotic (4-on-4 in overtimes, soccer-style substitutions, 4 points for a half-court shot—I think Celtic fans just relived the Antoine Walker years with that suggestion and almost died). But I'm curious to see what they come up with in the actual blog posts.
Me? I don't know what rule changes would fix things, but the worst in-game frustrations are ticky-tack fouls and flops. I also have a scheduling crusade: 62 game season. I'll explain why sometime.
Open poll:
Does anything change regarding what you hope to see each game if the Jazz are or are not a playoff team?
For me it makes all the difference in the world—but I'm curious if others are the same.
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5.
The big issue for me, and I have seen the same sentiments uttered on Twitter, is how they play. The majority of us can live with a loss as long as it looks like they tried as hard as the can. If they lose simply because they’re just not as talented, I can live with that. Its the losses that come with… well, its like the Knicks loss.
The Jamaal Tinsley of SLC Dunk
Follow on Twitter at your own risk: @prodigal_punk
Oh, and as far as Kanter goes-
I’m glad people have come around. My stance when he was drafted was to just say “Lets wait and see”. I think his biggest positive is just how quickly he institutes changes. Think how much better he has become at going straight back up with the ball. He’s not tall enough or athletic enough to hold it above his head and go straight up, ala Bynum, but he has been markedly better at deciding when to go right back up, when to brink it down to chest or waist level to gather himself, and when to take a bounce to re-position himself. I guess this adds up to the fact that he just gets it.
The Jamaal Tinsley of SLC Dunk
Follow on Twitter at your own risk: @prodigal_punk
My question is who else would we have wanted with the 3rd pick?
Kemba Walker anyone? Tristan from Canada?
Same with Burks – with hindsight, was there a better pick to be made?
It’s looking like Kyrie Irving is living up to his draft order.
I'll make it coach.
Glad we took Kanter but
I was hoping that we would have drafted Singleton instead of Burks. He was described as the only lock down defender in the draft class and he plays SF. He was taken 18th by Washington and has been starting for them lately. He’s averaging 19 minutes a game this season.
by Robert_Loblaw on Feb 9, 2012 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
I think Burks fits a need for us
And he has potential to be a solid defender. However, I think everybody here knows that I was a big fan of Kawhi Leonard, and look at him, he’s starting for the Spurs.
Spurs are silly and have no idea how to create winning atmosphere
They’ve played rookies big minutes for entire century.
Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com
I like Burks and am glad we have him.
But I wanted the Jazz to take Leonard. At this point it doesn’t matter though, as he would probably be riding the pine if he were on the Jazz, instead of starting for the Spurs. Apparently, that is just how we do things.
Brandon Knight
He would have been better for the team in most regards, I think. He provides point guard help, which we certainly need a lot more than big man help. Having him instead of Kanter would’ve allowed us to actively look for ways to trade Harris, and give Favors more minutes, which he needs to become the All-star caliber and top defender we hope he can be. Also, Knight would’ve filled an immediate, glaring team need, which is three point shooting.
Even if Kanter is the better player in 3-4 years(he certainly won’t be in less than 2 with the PT he’ll be getting), it’s unlikely he has much more upside than Knight. So yeah, there was a better pick to be made at #3.
While I don’t think Burks was the best choice for the Jazz at #12, I think that was much less obvious than Knight at #3.
I like Kanter over Knight.
And I am really glad we took Kanter. Favors does need minutes, and it is hard to get Kanter the minutes he needs to develop also. But I don’t think they aren’t getting their minutes because of each other. Even if we had Knight I think the FO still signs Watson and Knight splits time with him, behind Harris.
We are building a team for the long haul, not for what would help us right now. I definitely think Kanter is the right pick in that regard. I think Kanter for sure has the higher ceiling, and also he is a big which makes him more valuable.
5
It matters to an extent to me, but overall when I watch a want two things: good execution and a win. If we aren’t a playoff team I want the young guys playing as many minutes as possible, so that next year or the year after we have an OKC situation. If we are a playoff team I want my starters playing their 36 minutes and the young guys getting minutes where it makes sense.
Don't mess with the Coco
5.
If we know we aren’t a playoff team then I want to See Burks play more. Burks has been great witht he ball and makes some really good plays when he is in there. I understand that he plays too fast and his off ball movement is closer to CJ than Ronnie Brewer so I can see why he isn’t getting a lot of burn, but I think if we know we aren’t a playoff team than we just open up minutes for him.
I also think that bringing in Carroll means that KOC has got some moves up his sleave. I could see Al, Harris, and CJ all sent packing in the next month and I think that Carroll gives us flexibility if we trade 2 guys and bring one back or trade 3 and bring 2 back. But if we are still in the playoff picture at the trade deadline I don’t think we move Big Al.
^^^^This
I want to see the younger guys get more time and also see them work Evans into some more sets.
by BlackandGold4ever on Feb 9, 2012 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
jeremy lin
i want him in a jazz uni
Louisiana Jazz fan
I thought that before we signed Tinsley
I knew when New York picked him up that he would be their best PG.
There's a couple of players I would like to see the Jazz get for Jefferson and some change.
Namely, Monta Ellis, who could give the Jazz that scoring punch at the wing that they have been lacking (and someone to close out a ball game offensively), and Andre Iguodala, who could give the Jazz an establishe SF who is a great defender and an all around good player, although not a 3-point specialist (although he is not a bad 3-point shooter).
However, the Monta has been playing lately, perhaps the GS Warriors are having second thoughts about trading him, and the way the 76ers have been playing lately, they probably don’t want to mess up their chemistry. However, both teams really could use a good, experienced, scoring center.
by Fesenko for President on Feb 9, 2012 9:51 AM MST reply actions
The other team I would like to see the Jazz trade with is the Boston Celtics.
Either Ray Allen, as an “oldie but goodie” 3-point shooter, or Rajon Rondo—in place of Harris at point guard—would help the Jazz in my opinion. However, I’m not sure the Celtics want to break up their core before they make one last run at a championship. All three of the trades I would like to see probably would be more likely to happen during the NBA draft—especially if the Jazz end up with two pretty good lottery picks in the draft this year, which they could either use to get a good young player or use to sweeten the pot in order to motivate a team to trade the player the Jazz are targeting.
by Fesenko for President on Feb 9, 2012 9:57 AM MST up reply actions
Monta is a tempting option
Although I’d be concerned about what he’d do to our chemistry. The 76ers are playing well enough that I’d doubt they’re looking to trade Iguodala anymore.
Monta Ellis will never win a championship ever ever
for the same reasons Carmello will never win an NBA championship and why Tracy McGrady couldn’t win.
I'll make it coach.
yeah i really don't like monta's game
it’s all about volume shooting, he’ll shoot his team out of games more often than not
You guys are crazy not to
want Monta. He is averaging 6.3 assists per game! Almost 2 more per game than either Harris or Watson and he is scoring 22.6 pts per game. Saying you don’t want Monta is baffling they way the Jazz struggle at times. Sure he needs coaching but look how much he has improved with Marc Jackson in charge. I am sure Corbin could handle.
Agreed! Monta isn't going to get you very far.
Defensively he’s a liability. Also plays a little too one on one for me.
4 & 5
4. This may not be the place to have a lengthy discussion, but I don’t think I could support a 62 game season. A longer season is necessary to get a true sense of which teams are superior to which other teams. This is particularly true in the Western Conference which is so closely matched, that half the teams are within 5 games of each other all season long. A longer (82) game season more clearly defines the difference between, say, a 50 win team and a 40-45 win team. That’s a big difference, and one of those teams deserves to go the playoffs much more than the other.
5. If I know we are not making the playoffs, I want to see trades happen as soon as that conclusion is reached. If we’re going to have a rebuilding season, we should trade players that are helping us in the short term but will be difficult fits long term. I know that we don’t have a scoring replacement for Al Jefferson on the team right now. I know that. But I also know that if Kanter and Favors are going to develop into more than they are right now, they need to be getting Al’s minutes.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
62 Game season would mean better basketball.
Earlier on SLCDUNK I advocated for a 76 game season and got shot down, but it makes sense.
1) Back to back games mean bad basketball. Teams are tired, players get hurt, sloppy, games.
2) It’s easier to follow your teams games. I can’t watch 4 games in 5 nights.
Yes, I know the owners and the players will never go for it because it means less money.
Better basketball means getting the better teams to the playoffs.
If you want fatigue to be less of an issue, then spread the games out, allow teams to carry more players on their roster, or something of that nature. It’s not worth sacrificing the length of the season (a necessary component to discover who the best teams are) just to produce less fatigue.
The playoffs are 7-game series’ for a reason. One game, three games, or even five games is not enough to conclusively tell which is the better team. A seven game series is the best situation because it requires a team to win 4 times, not once, twice, or three times on a short burst of momentum or a fluke. It’s the same way with the season.
Go Buffalo Bills, Utah Jazz, and Arkansas Razorbacks
OUR KING DOME IS HOLLY GROUND YOU CAN ENTER BUT YOU WILL LEAVE WITH OUT A SOUL - Abayarde, Buffalo Rumblings
by Dyl on Feb 9, 2012 8:53 PM MST up reply actions
I kind of like flukes
I think I’m going to write a big thing about it tomorrow.
Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com
5
If we’re not going to the playoffs, then the young guns need alot more burn than they are getting now. And given our lackluster play these last few games, I’d really like to see Burks and Evans get more, if only for the fact that I’d rather watch to athletic explosive young guys than see Howard take another jumpshot or Big Al shoot the weezy way out of its effective range.
On the other hand if we’re winning, I’d still like to see the young guys play, but I’d be ok with Evans not getting as much PT, especially during close games.
Burks however, needs minutes regardless. We took him with the twelfth pick, and we need to see what we have with him. Can he be the future at the two, or even the one? These are things we need to know before going into the draft, because if he can’t do it at the two, there are several good knock down three point shooters in this draft that we should take a look at. That being said, I think Burks can be the player we want him to be, but he needs PT to develop his game to the NBA level. Kanter looked rougher than Burks at the beginning of the year, but through consistent playing time, we’ve all seen him grow and develop as a play. Now imagine if Burks had been getting similar minutes all season long, instead of wasting them on a one year team member in Howard.
Utah>*
#5
If we’re not even in contention for a playoff spot, then I’d like to see more minutes devoted to the development of the young players. Sure, this would result in fewer wins, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing if it also leads to (1) our young players improving more quickly, and (2) better draft prospects. Perhaps more than any other team in the league, the Jazz cannot rely on the free agent market to improve. We are absolutely dependent on trades and quality draft picks. For most of us Jazz fans, the very thought of winning fewer games than we are capable of winning is unappetizing, but if we’re not a playoff team, it’s the smart thing and the right thing to do.
4.
—Never going to happen, but I would like to see tip-off times that mean something and either giving teams fewer time-outs or eliminating TV timeouts. This goes double for national games.
—Allowing players to play actual defense.
—Technicals for flopping.
—Also agree with what you said on Twitter about fewer games.
1. nerd :-)
2. ugh…but optimistic still
3. Grantland>Sports Guy (Klosterman=MVP)
4. Soccer-style substitutions? F that! We need Hockey-style subbing! (And a 5 point dot – the size of the circles they use all-star weekend for that silly game of horse or whatever in each of the corners made by the half-court line and the sideline.)
5. If we’re not going to the playoffs, we don’t ever need to see Howard or Harris at all; and we don’t need to go to Al Jefferson on every damn play. Favors, Kanter, Burks and Hayward should get every available minute. Seems like a no-brainer. Except, here’s the funny part – I think we should do that IN ORDER TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFs. What do I know.
I'll make it coach.
Ann of Green Gables analogy last week
The Hobbit reference this week.
You never know what I’m going to pull out.
Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com
I'm hoping for something from Little Women next week.
The more you try to erase me, the more that I appear.
4
Almost every game for the past 2 seasons I have been complaining about 2 specific things that the NBA needs to put a stop to: moving screens (mostly on high pick and roll plays, Gasol comes to mind right away) and defenders purposely taking charges.
I can’t stand how much praise the Lakers or the Clippers get for their lobs when the big runs out to the 3 point line to set a pick for the point guard and never actually sets, but just slides in to hit the defender and without stopping already launches himself back to the basket for an ready lob and finish. This, at times, is so obvious that it has to stop!
And in regards to defensively taking charges, there should be no such thing. How can a ref tell if someone was set or not and if 1/8th of their heel was in the restricted area while the play takes place live, its nearly impossible to tell if a guy was set on slow motion replays!! If the offensive player doesn’t dip his shoulder or blatantly knock the defender over, the ref should not call a foul (not on the offensive player anyway). IMO If a defender gets knocked down while the offensive player is driving at him the defender should not be rewarded, that means the defender is not quick enough to stay in front of his opposition and that’s bad defense.
by Gleb Dok on Feb 9, 2012 12:31 PM MST via mobile reply actions
no no no
“IMO If a defender gets knocked down while the offensive player is driving at him the defender should not be rewarded, that means the defender is not quick enough to stay in front of his opposition and that’s bad defense.”
You’re asking for Shaq back. The worst basketball in the history of the league were the Shaq years in any game involving Shaq. He bulled into defenders who had no recourse. It wasn’t fun to watch. It wasn’t cool. It wasn’t competitive. The Player Control Foul gives the defense one more tool to even out the challenge. Think of it like calling strikes on the first two foul balls. The game is less fun when defense or offense has a fundamental advantage over the other. All the rules – shot clock, 3 seconds, moving screens – need to be in the name of balancing the task of scoring against the task of preventing a score.
Somehow baseball has landed on a magic formula – 1 vs. 9, three strikes and four balls, 90 ft. between bases…. they haven’t had to make new rules every couple of years to “make it fairer.” (I think the last really big change was the height of the pitchers mound, what, 60 years ago?) Players have had to change (PED’s) to get an advantage because the rules have established so much parity.
I reject the thesis that more points scored = better basketball. And so I reject your thesis that the game improves when defenders are made even more helpless.
If you want to make a rule about flopping, fine. But a legit charge needs to be part of the game.
I'll make it coach.
..and I agree, to a certain degree
I definitely want the refs to still call an “offensive charge”, but I feel like it has turned into a “defensive charge”. If Shaq bulls through someone while going up for a shot that’s fine by me. On the other hand if he is not going up for a shot yet, but is running someone over in order to create a shot I would totally be ok with calling a charge on him. Bottom line I think what I’m for is that a charge should never be purposely initiated by the defender, a charge should be a foul that is always initiated by the offensive player aka Shaq dipping his shoulder into the post defender to knock him down in order to get a shot off.
by Gleb Dok on Feb 9, 2012 1:06 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Just goes with what you said here I guess:
“If you want to make a rule about flopping, fine. But a legit charge needs to be part of the game.”
Flopping in my opinion is what I said above – a charge initiated by the defender. I just hate seeing players like our own Harris hustle back on defense just to get in front of the opposing player to then fall down and not make an attempt to steal the ball or block the shot, just looks lazy and silly and I can’t call that defense.
by Gleb Dok on Feb 9, 2012 1:15 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
fine lines
A charge might be the only way to defend a 3-on-1 break. I want the defender to have a chance…
…but yeah, I think you and I agree more than we disagree here.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Feb 9, 2012 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
I don't see any major trades going down
And if it does, it will involve either Miles, Howard and/or Harris not Al or Sap.
I've always like Miles, but I wouldn't cry if he was traded.
He’s a solid player, not a world beater. He’ll have the occasional 30 point game throughout his career. But for the most part, he’s going to be an average scorer. It shouldn’t be too difficult to replace a guy like that.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Feb 9, 2012 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
Carroll and Defence?
Does anyone know Carroll’s game well enough to know if he’s a solid defender? The Jazz are not in need of any more scoring threats and looking at Carroll’s stats, he’s not a threat on offence. I hope we picked him up to clothes line the opponents starting PG on his first attempt to drive it down the lane. Because that is what the Jazz need most of all right now. We need someone who can stop dribble penetration and can close out quickly to defend the outside shot.
Spell Check
Not sure why my spell check is changing defense to defence.
by Robert_Loblaw on Feb 9, 2012 2:41 PM MST up reply actions
I wondered if you were Tazz for a moment
Crazy British auto correcting.
Twitter: @YuccaManHoops
Email: jamidget@gmail.com
Your spell chequer is British
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Feb 9, 2012 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
4 - I've seen it suggested before but I'd like to see goaltending changed
so that once the ball hits the rim, it’s fair game for both the offensive and defensive player to go get it. It would make for some exciting defensive wipe-aways and offensive put-backs without worrying about whether the ball was on the rim or above the cylinder. It would also be one less call for the refs to screw up. I guess that’s the way they do it in international ball but I’ve never paid attention to that..
On second thought,
There is some excitement in watching some shots bounce a few times before falling in and out. There’s some drama in that.
I'll make it coach.
by MTN on Feb 9, 2012 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
I would like to see this. Goaltending seems to be an ambiguous rule.
One less break in the action, exciting plays, etc.
5. If we're not a playoff team, play the kids!
I’ve never believed we’re a playoff team. However, the Jazz have exceeded my expectations thus far and winning is fun! That being said, we’re not a playoff team, so it’s time to play the kids, perhaps trade a veteran or two and build for the long term.
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