Diana: Korver chat/nice win chat, Mylo?
Mychal Lowman: Let’s do it!
Diana: We looked like a different team tonight!
Mychal Lowman: Who’s onboard with Kyle Korver?
Tavan Parker: KORVER!!!! That is all.
Kaleb Searle: This was a pretty good template for what we need out of him. 14 points in 22 minutes. 4-6 from 3.
Mychal Lowman: The spacing with lineups out there was amazing. I could not believe the spacing.
James Hansen: Who knew that spacing would unlock everyone’s talent!?
Diana: I thought my daughter was kidding when she told me we traded for Korver. I was so sad to lose Burks but excited for Korver
Everything looks more natural with Korver on the court.
Mychal Lowman: I was disappointed that we didn’t get to see the Ingles-Korver combo.
Diana: Much like in dec 2007/Jan 2008 when we traded for him the first time
[Editor’s Note: Below you’ll find the only picture from our blog closest to that first trade of Kyle Korver. Enjoy Korver on a tractor.]
Mychal Lowman: Not as much as I’d like anyway.
Sam Goodrich: I would be careful to make judgements on a game where Jae Crowder is so hot. However, the team as a whole looks so much better in space.
Kaleb Searle: Seriously, I want to see what Mitchell and Gobert can do with the thread of Ingles and Korver out there at the same time. That could be lethal.
James Hansen: I love that he plays so smart. He doesn’t know the offense at all but already looks like he’s understanding how it works. That layup he made was as fun as anything
Sam Goodrich: I love how Korver uses Rudy’s insane screens.
It’s the Korver Konnection.
James Hansen: The Jazz just need to have a stretch floor on the court at all times. Donovan looks like Donovan when he has room to work
Diana: Korver screens also rules. That one he set for Donovan :heart_eyes:
Kaleb Searle: That might’ve been his most impressive play of the night. That screen was fantastic.
James Hansen: He’s one of those players that is surprisingly big
Sam Goodrich: If we can add a stretch four to this roster, Golden State better be on the lookout.
Jordan Cummings: Korver will have a massive positive impact every single night. Even if he doesn’t make a shot.
James Hansen: Jae Crowder was so good tonight. Not just his shooting but 7 assists too!
Diana: Poor favs
Sam Goodrich: Favors and Exum didn’t see much action. Exum got a DNP-CD.
Mychal Lowman: Favors was the person you could see from a mile away before the season starting as possibly being held out their for trades. But Exum? Didn’t anticipate this.
Didn’t expect Exum-DNPs only 21 games into the season while healthy.
Diana: I do not understand Quin’s relationship or lack thereof with Exum
Sam Goodrich: Neto has his weaknesses, but at least you know what he will consistently give you. Exum is too erratic and stops the ball.
Jordan Cummings: I think Exum and Favors are traded by the end of January
James Hansen: It’s disappointing. Especially when you consider the team’s defensive struggles. Exum changes the game with his defense.
Mychal Lowman: Exum needs development time. That’s REALLY hard to do on a playoff contender if that player isn’t picking it up fast. Exum’s windows for development were year 2 and 4. Both years he was injured.
Jordan Cummings: He definitely does. Exum can stop just about any perimeter player
Mychal Lowman: It’s, frankly, terrible luck.
Jordan Cummings: His offense still needs a LOT of work, but there are already things he’s good at. Flashes are there.
Sam Goodrich: It is difficult to develop a lottery pick on a team that is playoff-bound or bust.
Jordan Cummings: He’s definitely not where I hoped he would be after his short stretch last season + playoffs
Mychal Lowman: When Utah traded for Korver I said this:
This move is going to be scrutinized by Utah’s front office because their trade deadline strategy and offseason strategy will be guided by its success or failure. If Kyle Korver and Joe Ingles find additional success from the outside while Donovan Mitchell, Ricky Rubio, and Rudy Gobert enjoy greater success in the paint, Utah will know they need to be guided by the principle of finding a better stretch big like a Kevin Love type. If it doesn’t work out, they’ll know that “adding shooters” to their team still doesn’t fix a lot of their problems.
Mychal Lowman: I think Korver after game 1 is proving that Quin’s system does generate a lot of open looks regardless of the personnel. Hopefully 10 games from now, we’re saying the same thing.
Jordan Cummings: That said, though ... he’s got a MUCH better on/off split than Neto. Neto doesn’t make the same mistakes as Exum, but he’s clearly limited by his lack of size and athleticism.
I think at some point, Quin has to just be OK with Exum’s occasional mistakes, because those also come along with elite defense that essentially turns things into a 4 on 4 for Utah’s defense
Mychal Lowman: If that’s the case, Utah’s going to go hard after Kevin Love. I keep going back to what he said to Andy Larsen of the Salt Lake Tribune:
Dennis Lindsey: "In our mind, Cleveland did exceptionally well, and we hope they hit on their two picks and we hope Kyle is a really good player for us going forward. Those are the kinds of deals that you want to do with other teams, because you can do repeat business."— Andy Larsen (@andyblarsen) November 30, 2018
Jordan Cummings: With Neto, it’s fewer mistakes but simply getting outmatched by size/athleticism.
With Exum, it’s a couple of really bad mistakes a few times a game, along with elite athleticism and defense.
Neto’s on/off is a -10. Exum’s is a -4. Exum is bad, but this season Neto has been worse.
Mychal Lowman: Here’s the other thing, Exum’s DNP might have to do less with Exum and more about Utah testing the waters to see if they can survive off of Neto in those backup minutes.
Jordan Cummings: If a Porter trade and a Love trade are both on the table, all else being equal, I’d much rather have Porter
Mychal Lowman: Exum’s the better player, but if Utah is truly going to go big game hunting, Exum will most likely have to be included if Utah doesn’t want to have to give up 1st round picks from now until Jesus comes back.
James Hansen: Yeah, they’re looking at Neto now because he’s never gotten this consistent of minutes and coming off injury he hasn’t exactly been earning them the whole season
Jordan Cummings: Let’s say, either way, it’s a package of Favors + Sefolosha for either Love or Porter? I’m going Porter every time. He’s younger, more versatile, a better outside shooter, and is on a shorter contract that lines up better with Donovan/Rudy and their next contracts.
Mychal Lowman: Utah finding out now in December when no one is paying attention, if Neto can tread water at that backup PG role will help them make the decision with Exum when the deadline rolls around.
Then once they know, they throw Exum back into those minutes, build his value back up and bank on his potential.
Jordan Cummings: Exum has negative trade value at this point, though. Doesn’t he? I can’t imagine a team selling themselves on him as a net positive at this point. He’s a project. I guess that makes sense for a team like Washington or Cleveland though...
Mychal Lowman: I honestly don’t anticipate Exum’s DNPs to go on more than maybe one or two games more.
Sam Goodrich: Raul has a better ORtg and DRtg than Exum. I’m convinced he’s just been better this season.
Diana: We can’t give up on Exum. He has so much potential.
James Hansen: Neto has not been better
Sam Goodrich: Better VORP, better BPM, better WS/48
Jordan Cummings: Basketball reference’s individual offensive and defensive ratings are off
Mychal Lowman: Whoa whoa whoa … context there, Sam.
Neto turns the ball over right now at an insane clip.
Sam Goodrich: His AST% is nearly double though.
Jordan Cummings: A lot of that is because so much of Exum’s impact is “invisible”. A ball denial never shows up on the stat sheet, but it’s hugely beneficial to the team. Or Exum just shutting down a ball handler and forcing the ball out of his hands, preventing a shot at all.
Sam Goodrich: Double Exum’s, that is.
Mychal Lowman: He averages 1.4 turnovers a game in only 12.2 minutes.
James Hansen: Neto got TORCHED by the corpse of Tony Parker tonight
Jordan Cummings: Everyone got torched by 50 year old Parker. Rubio, O’Neale, Neto...
It was weird
Tavan Parker: I think Neto is getting more playing time because his variance is smaller. Is Exum better? Of course. But his floor is also lower than Neto IMO
Mychal Lowman: This.
Tavan is dead on with this.
It’s the Shelvin Mack experience all over again.
The ceiling is MUCH lower, but you know what your floor is.
Jordan Cummings : Aren’t we seeing that same problem from Rubio, though?
He’s allowed to play through all KINDS of horrible turnovers, bad defense, missed rotations, ugly shots, etc
Mychal Lowman: Yeah … but I think we’re getting hung up on something that doesn’t matter …
Jordan Cummings: I get that he’s built up more “credit” than Exum, but still...
Mychal Lowman: The future at point guard for Utah has nothing to do with Rubio, Exum, or Neto.
Diana: But Rubio is the golden child
Jordan Cummings [9:36 PM]
Mitchell is the PG of the future
Tavan Parker: I’ve been waiting for 1.5 years now to see Mitchell get more time at point guard. Now we have a SG in Korver that he might be able to get some minutes next to
Mychal Lowman: Notice how quickly Quin was trying to get Ingles and Korver out there together.
James Hansen: Donovan is absolutely the future at that spot
Mychal Lowman: We would have seen that combo out there more had Ingles not been foul happy.
Sam Goodrich: Donovan seems like a James Harden type of PG, that plays more like a SG.
James Hansen: His passing tonight was exquisite
Jordan Cummings: How much more dynamic is Donovan when he can hit pull-up jumpers from mid range, floaters, runners, etc?
MAN. Completely different player.
Mychal Lowman: We talk a lot about how Korver is going to help the spacing for Gobert and Mitchell, but my goodness, Joe Ingles is going to end up left open some nights because you have to pick your poison.
Jordan Cummings: If Donovan ever gets to just passable on pull-up threes, he will be literally unguardable.
James Hansen: That push shot is his new go to bucket move. He can get that at will. Reminds me of Chris Paul finding his way to that free throw line jumper
Jordan Cummings: Yep.
Donovan/Rudy pick and roll with Crowder back screening Gobert’s man before leaking to the 3-point line, all while Korver and Ingles are camped in the corners? Defenses will have no good options.
Sam Goodrich: Interesting the things he’s added to his game, considering who his offseason friends are.
Mychal Lowman: Crowder’s 3pt% could rise as well (not a ton but rise) because he’ll have more time on catch and shoot threes.
Jordan Cummings: Donovan’s drives are a LOT better when he slows down and uses change of pace. Full speed directly to the rim, he’s missing or turning it over almost every time. Go slow, hesitation, then burst? It’s 2 points or free throws.
James Hansen: Korver on the floor and Jae shoots better. Will be interesting to see if that’s a coincidence or if Jae benefits from it also
Tavan Parker: And hopefully Crowder gets rid of his pull up 3s as well
Mychal Lowman: Even though I watched almost all his games in Utah during his first stint, I forgot how good Korver was shooting on the move.
My goodness, DA GAWD.
Jordan Cummings: Crowder should NEVER shoot threes off the dribble. His entire offense should be catch-and-shoot threes, backdoor cuts, and dribble drives to the rim attacking closeouts.
Sam Goodrich: Korver should be leading shooting seminars in practice every day.
If Donovan could shoot on the move like that...
Or Grayson, Dante, literally anybody else.
Jordan Cummings: If Donovan could shoot on the move like that he’d be a hyper athletic Steph Curry haha
Mychal Lowman: Korver mentioned post game that you can have heat checks by osmosis. You see your team getting hot and it gives you confidence in your shot. Which I guess makes Ingles and Korver Utah’s three point shooting life coaches?
Jordan Cummings: Now I’m imagining a Kyle Korver/Joe Ingles shooting camp
And thinking of how incredible and hilarious that would be
Mychal Lowman: I love Joe Ingles, but Joe Ingles’ shooting camp would be a trainwreck.
“Who here loves trebuchets?”
*no hands go up*
Tavan Parker: It’s interesting to see how amazing both shooters are, and how drastically different their forms are. Korver is a work of art when he shoots
James Hansen: Ingles shot is great because who knows why
Kaleb Searle: Because it goes in. Lol
Jordan Cummings: Korver’s jumper is shooting mechanics p*rn
Tavan Parker: I remember Basketball John (Kris) a while back inverting Joe’s shot so he looked like a righty and his shot form actually looked a lot better haha I think the left thing throws expectations off a little
Mychal Lowman: Watching Joe Ingles shoot is like watching that a guy who’s really good at skee-ball. It’s damn impressive, but you’re always going to have serious questions about how he got to that point.
Tavan, that is so true. I remember that tweet.
[Editor’s Note: FOUND THE TWEET.]
I thought Ingles' shot was unconventional but I think it's just because he's a left. Flip it, and it's a very good looking shot. pic.twitter.com/KSAdBGrdqW— Kris #TakeNote (@5kl) October 22, 2017
Jordan Cummings: Yeah, it was bizarre
I remember that
James Hansen: Ingles and Korver are just so different. One is a disheveled, trash talking joker with a wonky form that always goes in. Korver is the tan, attractive coach’s dream who shoots with an assassins precision. They get the same result though and it’s awesome
Jordan Cummings: Korver’s clearly winning in the hair department haha
Mychal Lowman: I know I’ve put down any mention of a Kevin Love to Utah thing because his age and injury history, but man … watching Korver … makes me have the feels for it.
Jordan Cummings: I need a #SplashUncles shirt STAT
Sam Goodrich: Now I need to go to my barber and request a Korver haircut.
Jordan Cummings: Mychal, give in to the dark side
Mychal Lowman: Imagine having 40% shooters with the type of gravity of Ingles, Korver, and Love.
Otto is nice, but he has no gravity.
Jordan Cummings: Korver, Ingles, and Porter are 1, 2, and 3 in 3pt% since 2016-17
Mychal Lowman: Love … has gravity because of his passing ability.
Jordan Cummings: 44.5%, 43.1%, 42.9%
Mychal Lowman: Yes … I know, but no gravity for Porter.
And the outlet passes by Love.
Sam Goodrich: If we want to run the break, Love is the man to initiate.
Jordan Cummings: That wouldn’t last long with him drilling 4 threes a game because he’s sharing the court with Korver and Ingles
Sam Goodrich: That rhymes because it’s true.
James Hansen: Does he need Gravity though? Donovan would open up his shooting.
Mychal Lowman: Donovan Mitchell and O’Neal blitzing in transition with those outlet passes … makes my mouth water.
Sam Goodrich: Imagine the bonkers passing if we had Rubio, Donovan, Joe, Love and Rudy out there.
Rudy would get so many dunks.
Jordan Cummings: I think Porter does have gravity. His on/off impact on Washington’s offense and net rating since 2016-17 is pretty huge
So even if defenses aren’t focused on shutting him down, he’s still bending defenses. He’ll force them to pay attention and guard him
James Hansen: Porter has had maybe the worst coaching and organization his entire career and still managed to be come one of the best shooters in the league. With Quin I could see him really improving
Mychal Lowman: But … Kevin Love loves Park City. The Utah connection is so strong. And I like the idea that Kevin Love can play small ball 5 in a pinch.
Jordan Cummings: He does work out here during the summers
Mychal Lowman: Because in that likely trade you’re moving Favors and possibly Udoh.
Jordan Cummings: Playing 5 out in certain situations is pretty appealing
James Hansen: I think both options are really good though. I’d be happy with either
Andrew Bailey: Am I too late?!
Sam Goodrich: That’s the thing. Love can play the 5. Otto Porter can’t.
Mychal Lowman: I think Love can execute really well.
JUMP RIGHT IN.
James Hansen: You’re never too late!!!
Kaleb Searle: I think you just hit the biggest reason Love makes more sense Mychal. It allows you to trade Favors without completely screwing the center position behind Rudy.
Mychal Lowman: Tell them how Kevin Love is perfect for this team and Otto Porter is pipe dream. Floor is yours.
Sam Goodrich: Love would replace that backup 5 spot we’d be losing if we lost a guy like Derrick.
Jordan Cummings: Andrew Bailey is the 6th man, coming in off the bench to save us all.
ANDY IS KORVER
Andrew Bailey: Korver can play the 5.
I can play the 5.
Exum at the 5.
James Hansen: You seem to have forgotten about Willie Reed aka Lindsey’s ace in the hole
Tavan Parker: Can Love actually play is my concern. Yes he would be an ideal fit, but I’m not comfortable with his building injury history
Mychal Lowman: Andy the floor is no longer yours.
Andrew Bailey: But seriously, good point on Love.
Jordan Cummings: Crowder at the 5 would actually be interesting...
Kaleb Searle: Andy for backup center. Problem solved.
Jordan Cummings: Diet Draymond Lite Ultra Small Ball Lineup of MegaDeath
Kaleb Searle: Have you seen those college numbas? Might challenge Rudy.
James Hansen: Maybe Quin will play Neto at the 5!!
Mychal Lowman: This has no reason to be in this chat and does nothing to further the conversation. BUT LOOK AT THIS AMAZING GIF OF KEVIN LOVE.
Jordan Cummings: Neto, Rubio, Mitchell, Exum, O’Neale. 5 guard lineup of death
Andrew Bailey: That’s fantastic.
Jordan Cummings: LOL incredible
Mychal Lowman: But really, Korver’s debut tonight couldn’t have gone better.
I thought he was going to score 6 points, play about 10 minutes and call it a night.
Instead Joe Ingles gets into foul trouble, Korver has to be out there for who knows how long to fill in and in the process he goes for 14.
Andrew Bailey: I hope he’s one of those guys who stays in ridiculous shape till he’s 40, a la Ray Allen.
Mychal Lowman: Heck, Joe Ingles can even learn from him.
Korver is one of the best players without the ball.
Andrew Bailey: I think Korver will do a lot of teaching.
Jordan Cummings: Korver will be a net positive for a LONG time, if he chooses to keep playing
Look at Vince Carter
Mychal Lowman: Learning that trait can extend Ingles’ career and make the last two years of his contract amazing for Utah.
Jordan Cummings: You think with Korver’s shooting he can’t do that?
James Hansen: Korver is just technically perfect in so many aspects. His passing was also impressive
Jordan Cummings: (Not the dunking... I mean just playing haha)
He’s so technically and fundamentally sound in every way. Even the way he slides his feet on defense.
James Hansen: One last note on Kevin Love. He returns from injury in January which coincides which when Favors can be traded. A lot of tea leaves with that
Andrew Bailey: I’ll never get over him calling Park City his favorite US city.
Mychal Lowman: Little known fact: When Joel Embiid googled “WHITE PEOPLE SHOOTING 3 POINTERS,” it was just 3,500,750 videos of Kyle Korver.
James Hansen: Can he please mentor Dante!?
Andrew Bailey: Get Dante away from Snyder.
Mychal Lowman: I will admit—puts tin foil hat on—I think Love is away from injury for that period of time to avoid a serious injury so he can get off that tank of a team.
Andrew Bailey: Story time with Dante and Kyle for 30 minutes after every practice.
Jordan Cummings: Dante with Korver’s jumper is an all star :disappointed:
Mychal Lowman: Yeah … I think Dante might be a Cavalier by February. Hell, that’s where all Jazzmen go now.
Jordan Cummings: Where Jazzmen go to revive their careers.
Andrew Bailey: I think he’s gone too. Thing is, that’s a lot of money for another team to take on for a guy who’s proven nothing.
Jordan Cummings: Burks looked really good in Cleveland
Mychal Lowman: Andy, you’re speaking Phoenix’s language.
Andrew Bailey: Aaaaah, that’s pretty interesting.
I’ve said this in four or five different locations already, but giving $30 million to a guy Snyder gave up on two years ago was mighty bold.
[Editor’s Note: I just wanted to put this hypothetical trade that gets Exum to Phoenix and Love to Utah here. This editor’s note is completely selfish.]
Jordan Cummings: Phoenix has been in a point guard purgatory that’s almost as bad as Utah’s since the Deron trade
They’ve had higher highs, but they were short lived
Yeah, that seems like a bizarre miscommunication re: Exum
Dennis and Quin really aren’t on the same page at all with him
Mychal Lowman: Part of me has felt like Cleveland and Utah have had a trade in the works for Kevin Love since the summer, but conditions weren’t right for the trade with the players needed.
Jordan Cummings: Double sign and trade could’ve worked, no?
Mychal Lowman: Triple S&T ain’t it. So they sign their guys, let the chips fall, then make the move at the first possible time.
Jordan Cummings: Right. I guess it would’ve been that
Favors and Exum S&T for Love S&T
Not possible with the CBA?
Sam Goodrich: Well ... we can’t make any more meaningful trades until January, most likely. How does this roster fare in the December gauntlet?
Jordan Cummings: Cleveland doesn’t really makes sense for Exum though. They have a TON of young guards and wings already. Sexton, Hood, Burks, Nwaba, Harrison, Osman...
Korver helps a lot, for sure.
I think Korver gives Utah 3-4 extra wins just in the month of December alone. That’s how much of a difference he’ll make for Utah’s shooting
Mychal Lowman: If this team is .500 after the December gauntlet, kudos to Dennis Lindsey and co. for finding the perfect shot in the arm.
Jordan Cummings: I think Utah shoots 40% or better from 3 more often than not moving forward
Mychal Lowman: They didn’t need to completely fix the roster in December. They just needed to give it a life raft until January.
James Hansen: Exum is only good if you like having incredible defense played
He’d fit nicely with Sexton
Mychal Lowman: James will be holding a vigil at Vivint for anyone who wants to attend in the event of Exum being traded.
Jordan Cummings: That will be a sad day
Mychal Lowman: It will also be cold. Bundle up, Hansen.
Jordan Cummings: Where does Utah’s offensive efficiency rank from here on out?
Top 15? Top 10?
James Hansen: Oh, I thrive in the cold. But my heart is warmed knowing that the team always has a positive net rating with Exum on the floor
Jordan Cummings: I think defensive efficiency improves as well, just because they’ll make more shots and give up fewer transition opportunities
Mychal Lowman: 12th-14th. But their defense gets better as they turn the ball over less.
More minutes for Korver mean less Burks/Exum/O’Neale handling the ball. Possibly.
BTW, Mavs are beating the Lakers in LA.
Guys … guys …
the Jazz had their lowest turnover percentage in a game in weeks.
Sam Goodrich: Turnovers go down when defenders can’t clog passing and driving lanes.
James Hansen: Ricky has seemingly fixed his turnover issue!
Mychal Lowman: Though … Raul Neto was at a 33.3%. That’s not good. But everything else was good.
Sam Goodrich: I don’t think this was a Ricky problem per se.
Jordan Cummings: Mychal, Burks won’t have another turnover in a Jazz jersey this season...
Mychal Lowman: Big, if true, Jordan.
Jordan Cummings: LOL
Mychal Lowman: Also … I’m not sure Sefolosha sees minutes anymore with Korver.
Jordan Cummings: What was their offensive rating for the game?
Mychal Lowman: 121.4
Jordan Cummings: Favors + Sefolosha matches a lot of salaries
Mychal Lowman: With a Pace of 98.5
Jordan Cummings: What’s crazy is that pace would be 29th in the NBA this season. And the game felt really fast.
Maybe the lack of fouls
Mychal Lowman: Yeah, Korver is the canary in the coal mine. He’s there to see if Utah’s offense is safe for bigger fish that could fit the system.
So far … the mine is safe, and Lindsey’s gambit looks like it’ll pay off.
I think it’s time we wrap this up.
Any parting words on the trade?
Sam Goodrich: Trade good. Jazzyman happy.
Is it too late to go 82-0?
Jordan Cummings: Dennis Lindsey seems to make trades that are not only beneficial for both teams, but put all players in better situations. That should build a lot of goodwill around the league in both front offices and with players
Diana: If we can shoot like we did tonight more consistently, I like it.
Jordan Cummings: Biggest winners of this trade are Donovan and Rudy.
Their efficiency will go through the roof
James Hansen: I am all in on Kyle Korver and a trade for a stretch 4!
Tavan Parker: My closing thoughts: it’s great having another shot maker on the team!