The Downbeat #1k37 - More HAVEN'T Won, Than HAVE

Jerome Miron-USA TODAY Sports

Here is a pretty fun article on Grantland on Who Will be the Next Superstar to not Win a Title. Its also complete horse crap. The "He ain't got no ringzzz" nonsense is just that. Just look at the numbers. Since 1980, only 9 different teams have won a title. At an average of 27 teams through those years, 67% haven't won a championship. Lets look at some players that never won: Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Chris Webber, Grant Hill, Reggie Miller. I could go on.

Currently I'm listening to Dream Team, by Jack McCallum (yes, listening. I gotta have something to do on the train twice a day, and its difficult to stand and read) and its awesome. The stories about all the fabled players from my youth are amazing and wonderful. The chapter about Stockton, Malone, and Zeke is short, but fantastic. It led me to a realization: We, as Jazz fans have taken on their personality. If we are collectively critical, demanding, and unsatisfied, it is surely because of who they were as players. Along with Coach Sloan, they demanded the most effort and the hardest work out of themselves and their team. We are the same way. The problem for the current Jazz management is that the world moves at a much faster pace. It took those gods of basketball over a decade to get to the chance to win that O'Brian trophy. They weren't under a constant microscope with the few newspaper articles, a few televised games, and scant coverage anywhere else.

The current management has far more pressure than Larry and the crew did. So what? We all do. That's the state of the world in this day and age. Cling to the past, long for the old days, and dry up with the distant memory of history. We've evolved as fans. We were shaped by those guys we grew up idolizing. We demand a higher standard. Does that mean we demand a championship next year? No. But it does mean we demand a concise 5 year plan to get there. We want to a clear path.

I pulled the draft machine 10 times. The Jazz took Kelly Olynyk every time. The Jazz are DEFINITELY not drafting Kelly Olynyk. It seems like every year the Jazz get a player pegged to them and don't take that player... mostly because they're barely gone; Brandon Knight being the exception. Some others, off the top of my head: Tyler Hansbrough, Roy Hibbert, Greg Monroe.

The other side is that the Jazz are definitely going to take a PG. Which could mean this is the first year that the Mock's are correct. So the Jazz are definitely going to draft Kelly Olynyk.

Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

Peter is the resident capologist. Andy, Clark, and Amar are far more familiar with the draft prospects than I. However, I know my current NBA players and very much enjoy the various trade proposals that float around. Having said that, nothing makes me roll my eyes and shake my head faster than one that is completely foolhardy; especially when it comes from someone in the media posing as an expert.

I'm going to start making this a mandatory re-post every year around the trade deadline, draft, and start of free agency: Prodigal Punk's Quick Guide to Being a Fan GM

Its a quick reference of some things to consider before floating a trade idea. If I missed anything, feel free to add them in the comments here, and we'll keep it a living document.

Lets check in with our Jazz players and see what they're up to this offseason, the best way we can: Social Media.

Derrick Favors:

Ok. Not a lot coming from Fav. Must be busy in the gym and visiting family

Gordon Hayward:

Gordon is waiting for his girlfriend and putting together furniture. BtB

Alec Burks:

Alec is coolin! I like coolin in the summer, as well.




The silence is deafening.


1: What is this article trying to say?

At first he says the casual fan doesn’t give them due credit. But then he says that he thinks of Karl hunting and fishing and later says we over revere all time greats that never won a championship. It seems like he’s contradicting himself and calling himself a casual fan. Stupid article. Sure, it may solidify someone else’s career, but that shouldn’t take away from their own greatness.

2) I’ve never thought about it this way, but it fits perfectly. We demand improvement, hard work, and being held accountable. To bad the FO doesn’t seem think the same way.

3) Mock drafts are INCONCEIVABLE!

4) So you’re saying we can’t just sign and trade Al and Paul for CP3? Inconceivable!

5) Maybe the Big Turkey’s getting a visit from the Mailman? Oh wait, that was my dream last night? Nevermind…

Speaking of Enes

Just read an article on Yahoo about two 17 year old 7 footers (one from China, the other from India) being brought up in Florida—search-for-basketball-s-next-great-7-footer-leads-to-india—china-064219323.html

Essentially, the idea of their coaches is that by bringing along young bigs slowly -working more on strength/conditioning basics to go along with plenty of rest, the bigs have more time go grow into their bodies. Which should (in theory) allow for a longer career. I’m not using this to justify Kanters lack of playing time this season, but the article made me even more excited that we drafted him in the first place. He hasn’t put his body (specifically feet/knees) through the wear & tear American prospects go through before they even reach college. The same wear & tear the coaches in the above article are trying to avoid.

Great read

3. I think the Mocks will change after the lottery, then team needs can be taken into account.

That being said, Olynyk is probably at this point the 14th best player available. Furthermore, assuming that Millsap and Jefferson aren’t back, we’re going to need a 3rd big, preferably a stretch 4, which Olynyk is.

I finally decided to look into Dennis Schroeder

He was getting a ton of buzz in the comment section around here lately so I thought I’d see what all of the fuss was about. All I can say is that I was not disappointed after reading a few scouting reports and watching some videos. I’m fully on board the Schroeder band wagon. He’s got some serious skills that you can’t teach like speed, solid play-making/court vision, good pick and roll game, great man defense and I don’t think his weaknesses are all that crippling (he’ll get better finishing in traffic at the rim as time goes on and turnovers are a problem for all young point guards).

Also, can I add that his 6'7" wingspan is pretty sick as well

Schroeder could easily be the best PG in the draft.

He could also totally be a bust. Weeeeee NBA draft.

Well, if he turns out to be a total bust

that would only make him the 2nd best pg on last year’s roster. haha

He already looks like the best defensive PG (Since the team denies that Burks actually played any PG minutes) we would have.

And for sure the best at passing out of the PnR. Unless someone drops, picking him at 14 really wouldn’t bother me at all. Olynyk doesn’t get me very excited.

Olynyk would be the classic Jazz pick

Big international white guy that was a solid player before the draft and then sucks in the NBA.

Also, the PG that I had in mind being better than him on our roster was Burks. haha

I actually assumed that lol.

But I think I have been told enough times that Burks isn’t a PG, that I have to come to the realization that he will never be a PG, on our team.

But I could totally live with a starting 5 of Schroeder, Burks, Hayward, Favors, Kanter. And if they suck, oh well. At least we know. And we get a good draft pick. I think they would be surprisingly competitive. Probably about 41 wins.

Why I'm also high on Karasev.

Suspect those two are going to be the steals of the draft unless their value soars at the combine. Can hope though.

Karasev would be terrifying teamed up with Gordon in a good way. There has even been some mention that he could play some point, I’ve seen his dad in action, he was impressive at the one. 19 year old who plays decent D, is an amazing shooter, has a solid handle, and very good BBIQ, can easily play either wing, and decent chance for a little point, has good speed and size. A small AK that can shoot…
I think we can get an ok backup big this offseason given the number available.

Would be fun to watch for sure.

Shoot 3's, plays defense, and can pass.

Sounds like what we need. Though on the other hand, if we draft Olynyk (who I’m also not very high on), I think that would be a pretty strong sign that we’re not re-signing Al or Sap, which would be a good thing. I’d still rather gamble on a defensive PG though.

Dennis Schroeder

A pipe dream would be to win the lottery and pick Burke.

Realistically, we draft Dennis Schroeder and get the steal of the draft.

I checked the guy out last night and he looked very good. Quickest PG in the draft. He swallows his guys up on D. I think he allowed 28% shooting on defense. Nice.
His first step cannot be defended. He could use to add some thickness to his frame but that can always be worked on. Bottom line is this kid has serious game.

After my amateur scouting….I’m gonna go out on a limb and say Dennis is the 2nd best PG in the draft, ahead of CJ McCallum and Carter-Williams(and I’m a Cuse fan)

I gotta get me a friend named Scritch

Celtics fan here

Whatda we gotta give to get Jefferson in a sign and trade?

We will take one of your division banners and a larry bird autograph for big al

I'd settle for a Tilda Bird autograph personally

(Parks and Rec reference)

Don't forget the can of tuna

We never got that for trading Boozer. I’d love for a good tuna fish sandwich.

In all seriousness, we could care less if he stays.

the thing is

we’re over the cap so we would have to send back players

I don't think there's a trade there.

We’d only be interested in Rondo or Bradley. MAYBE Courtney Lee at his price tag. But not Brandon Bass. Not Jason Terry.

Rondo would be worth a lot more than a free agent

you aren’t resigning anyways- but could be done.

I mean, we would be really interested in trading for Rondo, I think. I just figure the Celtics will want a lot for him, if they ever move him.

We'll give you a lollipop just for doing us some Favors.

seriously i wouldn't mind it straight up for sullinger

or maybe fab melo… i would love having that name on the jazz

View All Comments
Back to top ↑